On August 24 2012 20:58 Frankon wrote: Im kind of sick of hearing that ESF isn't Gom. Just look at your favorite player team shirt. There is a GOM patch on every uniform in place reserved for sponsors. You can argue that GOM sponsors GSL teams and there for has a unofficial power in ESF. Its especially visible with this move.
Devil advocate mode on
What does ESF teams gain from this? To be honest i see no gain for them.
By withdrawing from the tournament they: a) limit their sponsors presence on TV b) make sponsoring a tournament a "risky" business. That could even backfire for GOM since new sponsor would surerly learn about it. c) limit the additional earnings of their players. d) this point is pure speculation into how korean team work - decreses team budget duo to not getting percentage of players winning in OSL.
Oh. And its funny that the letter is sign by Nestea. (of IM). IM team withdrew some of its players from GOM organised event (WCS Korea) so they could be present at Gameson as a publicity. And of course poach some money from IEM.
About Kespa previous move.
Since right now they are in middle of transition and want to keep their fans (yeah they have them. Just compare the GOM studio and PL studio crowds) its more advantageous to them to do it with their tournaments - so they wouldn't lose fans to gom. Also Code A qualifiers are brutal. Even more than the first round of Code S. Sending their players there now is highly inadvisable bearing the results of WCS Korea qualifiers.... Most of Kespa players needed seeds to ge in.
Kespa didn't say they will never play in GSL. They just stated that they are not ready to play yet.
mode off
To sum it up... Those silly koreans. If it keeps happening again i wouldn't be surprised if in future to participate in any torunament you would have to sign a legally bound document that would state what you can and can't do, and what kind of penalties you will suffer for withdrawing
I agree... I don't know that KeSPA was actually trying to boycott GSL (nor do I know that they weren't). When I heard the announcement that they were not going to participate in Code A qualifiers my first thought was "they must not be ready yet". Now, I have mixed feelings about ESF players pulling out of OSL. If they (players or ESF) felt that KeSPA was playing games I support their move.
Well... that's my 2 cents, time to microwave some popcorn.
I greatly applaud the eSports federation for standing up to Kespa. Everyone knows that Kespa was trying to assert itself in the sc2 world like it did the bw world. OGN will have a panic attack. The Ro16 is in 4 days. Please get this fixed Kespa. Let your players play
On August 24 2012 20:44 goneim wrote: OMFG, this is huge! Anyone could kindly explain what kind of relationship it is between KeSPA and OGN?
OGN was one of the first game-related channel in Korea, if not the first.
KeSPA was formed later; it's basically run by the group of teams playing in Proleague atm. They have strong connection because back then, OGN and MBCGame were the only stations running KeSPA-related stuff, but they are not 'essentially' the same group.
I can pretty much say that the coaches of the team are more like 'KeSPA' than OGN. I mean, KeSPA almost screwed up OGN in the past, too.
From what I understand KeSPA was formed by the sponsors and team owners. The teams and players themselves want to play in GSL but they aren't allowed.
Waking up 2 days in a row to read something like this again is really a shame. I understand why they are pulling out, but it would of given their teams more exposure since OSL is broadcasted live on TV. Hopefully this does help to fix the problem though.
Could i have the name of the OGN representative on the board of directors? Am i suppose to take that blog post as fact? Not that it even mentions OGN being on the KeSPA board. I'm not doing this just to be a pain. I've notice you've posted many different things in this thread with conviction and i'm wondering, how does he know this? Why don't i know this?
The name of the OGN representative ! Ahhahahahahaha GOGO TRYHARD RANGER !
But why i don't know this ? WHYYYYYYY ???????/
So we are supposed to take what hes posted as fact on faith?
No !
Who the hell is this clueless guy ?
And hence the problem when KeSPA reaches the SC2 board... No one knows anything and its just a bunch of nerd making shit up.
Do you really think FXOboss is making shit up? I'm sure he knows more than you.
never doubt FXOboss probably one of the most informed if not the most informed person there is
Doubting an overachieving financial businessman should be taught to kids at schools. Being informed doesn't mean he can't manipulate people, on the contrary.
On August 24 2012 20:58 Frankon wrote: Im kind of sick of hearing that ESF isn't Gom. Just look at your favorite player team shirt. There is a GOM patch on every uniform in place reserved for sponsors. You can argue that GOM sponsors GSL teams and there for has a unofficial power in ESF. Its especially visible with this move.
Devil advocate mode on
What does ESF teams gain from this? To be honest i see no gain for them.
By withdrawing from the tournament they: a) limit their sponsors presence on TV b) make sponsoring a tournament a "risky" business. That could even backfire for GOM since new sponsor would surerly learn about it. c) limit the additional earnings of their players. d) this point is pure speculation into how korean team work - decreses team budget duo to not getting percentage of players winning in OSL.
Oh. And its funny that the letter is sign by Nestea. (of IM). IM team withdrew some of its players from GOM organised event (WCS Korea) so they could be present at Gameson as a publicity. And of course poach some money from IEM.
About Kespa previous move.
Since right now they are in middle of transition and want to keep their fans (yeah they have them. Just compare the GOM studio and PL studio crowds) its more advantageous to them to do it with their tournaments - so they wouldn't lose fans to gom. Also Code A qualifiers are brutal. Even more than the first round of Code S. Sending their players there now is highly inadvisable bearing the results of WCS Korea qualifiers.... Most of Kespa players needed seeds to ge in.
Kespa didn't say they will never play in GSL. They just stated that they are not ready to play yet.
mode off
To sum it up... Those silly koreans. If it keeps happening again i wouldn't be surprised if in future to participate in any torunament you would have to sign a legally bound document that would state what you can and can't do, and what kind of penalties you will suffer for withdrawing
the ESF teams are ESF teams for a reason. They don't want to be Kespa teams. Their coaches and players left Kespa 2 years ago for a reason. If ESF doesn't support GOM, GOM dies. If GOM dies, ESF dies which means everyone back to Kespa.
While GOM haven't come out with saying anything about this, ESF has to have GOM's back by default. I can imagine playing in GSL is nicer where you dont get auto DQ for missing out a p in "ppp"
But its not like GOM can tell ESF to come out and say this or else they dont get to play in GSL. That would be suicide for GOM. This means that ESF can do whatever they want. They could play in the OSL and GOM wouldnt be able to do anything about it. ESF has all the leverage in the relationship with GOM.
Im afraid that Kespa will lose to much face by giving in to GOM or ESF. They seem like that kind of organization that would rather die than give in to a "rival".
On August 24 2012 21:04 Logginurkeyz wrote: Shit like this is why Korea and the rest of the world had their 'curtain' for BW- I mean, IEM and MLG are great and all, but they can't hold a candle to GSL / OSL... OSL, MSL, and SPL have been BW for years and years- GSL is 2 years old, and MLG goes with the tide of what games are popular... if it becomes KeSPA v Blizz again, it is going to kill the scene- again... I agree completely with what FXOBoss said- but, I'm gonna have to side with KeSPA on this one... I don't wanna watch my BW heroes get steamrolled by the new kids on the block just because they haven't had time enough to transition to SC2 pro play. I think the ESF decision is childish, and they should just shrug it off- rather than feeling like the jilted bride that they are... Man the fuck up, show them that you are better than that, and roll with the punches! Did NASL lay down and die when their initial criticism was through the roof? No- they persevered and are now doing something great for the community. Is GOM going to die from the KeSPA boycott? Probably not. Will GOM die if Blizzard gets involved? Definitely...
you don't want to see your favourite players getting beat? lol drop the pride. they've already caught up, you can't use that as an excuse and neither are kespa because they know it's silly. ESF being childish? they did it because they know kespa's decision is a sinister one, they're defending themselves because their survivability is at stake here.
On August 24 2012 21:06 LimitSEA wrote: Wasn't Blizzard supposed to release a statement about this today, too? Haven't heard anything yet, unless I've missed it somewhere?
E-sports drama! From the limited knowledge I had, I didn't think ESF capable of doing a full player boycott. The fact that they did so makes me think Kespa didn't think so as well (or at least thought the ESF wouldn't go through with it).
Because I am an optimist, I sincerely hope both ESF and Kespa will simply allow their players to do just whatever the hell they want. Let's see if Kespa goes to the negotiating table in the following days.
On August 24 2012 21:03 Fubi wrote: I still think GOM will lose in the long run; Yes, pulling out of OSL hurts them this season temporarily; but given how fast the Kespa players are catching up, they will definitely be just as good or better than most GSL players, and they will just simply move on with OSL as usual w/o the GSL players.
I think the only solution for GOM is to have Blizzard step in at this point in time.
Or the kespa players step up, but i'm afraid that their rights to have a say are restricted or something by being contractually bounded with the teams.. i don't know, but they really need a player association within them
On August 24 2012 21:06 LimitSEA wrote: Wasn't Blizzard supposed to release a statement about this today, too? Haven't heard anything yet, unless I've missed it somewhere?
Could i have the name of the OGN representative on the board of directors? Am i suppose to take that blog post as fact? Not that it even mentions OGN being on the KeSPA board. I'm not doing this just to be a pain. I've notice you've posted many different things in this thread with conviction and i'm wondering, how does he know this? Why don't i know this?
The name of the OGN representative ! Ahhahahahahaha GOGO TRYHARD RANGER !
But why i don't know this ? WHYYYYYYY ???????/
So we are supposed to take what hes posted as fact on faith?
Why would you ask such a pointless question? Let's say that you were given a name. How do you know that person actually sits on the board, or that he is even a real person? If you don't want to believe what he says, go look it up.
On August 24 2012 20:58 Frankon wrote: Im kind of sick of hearing that ESF isn't Gom. Just look at your favorite player team shirt. There is a GOM patch on every uniform in place reserved for sponsors. You can argue that GOM sponsors GSL teams and there for has a unofficial power in ESF. Its especially visible with this move.
Devil advocate mode on
What does ESF teams gain from this? To be honest i see no gain for them.
By withdrawing from the tournament they: a) limit their sponsors presence on TV b) make sponsoring a tournament a "risky" business. That could even backfire for GOM since new sponsor would surerly learn about it. c) limit the additional earnings of their players. d) this point is pure speculation into how korean team work - decreses team budget duo to not getting percentage of players winning in OSL.
Oh. And its funny that the letter is sign by Nestea. (of IM). IM team withdrew some of its players from GOM organised event (WCS Korea) so they could be present at Gameson as a publicity. And of course poach some money from IEM.
About Kespa previous move.
Since right now they are in middle of transition and want to keep their fans (yeah they have them. Just compare the GOM studio and PL studio crowds) its more advantageous to them to do it with their tournaments - so they wouldn't lose fans to gom. Also Code A qualifiers are brutal. Even more than the first round of Code S. Sending their players there now is highly inadvisable bearing the results of WCS Korea qualifiers.... Most of Kespa players needed seeds to ge in.
Kespa didn't say they will never play in GSL. They just stated that they are not ready to play yet.
mode off
To sum it up... Those silly koreans. If it keeps happening again i wouldn't be surprised if in future to participate in any torunament you would have to sign a legally bound document that would state what you can and can't do, and what kind of penalties you will suffer for withdrawing
There's more to the world then money, it's a player association whether you think it is or not. Hell, Nestea is the president and they removed two players(MVP, Nestea) from the OSL and they don't and havn't ever had any GOM patches on their uniforms - actually, the only one with GOM logo I remember is TSL and Prime. All of the players that withdrew from the OSL are former broodwar players, maybe, just maybe, they saw an opportunity where they can force a change from KeSPA that they've never been in a position to do before. As someone posted earlier, this seems more like it's player helping players.
IM team withdrew some players from WCS, yes? So? The whole point of this thing is to give players the choice about what they can compete in.... I'm not sure if you actually read any of the thread...
So you think KeSPA should dictate everything their players do? B-Teamers who get no pay or air time shouldn't be able to attempt to qualify despite having nothing scheduled?
This is obviously a power play from KeSPA, they've fucked GOM over previously in Brood War, it's not like they wont try it again.
On August 24 2012 21:06 LimitSEA wrote: Wasn't Blizzard supposed to release a statement about this today, too? Haven't heard anything yet, unless I've missed it somewhere?
Correct. I was wondering this too.
They said they'd have a response to KeSPA not allowing their players to participate in GSL. But with the recent events they might want to address that too.
EPT![[image loading]](https://www.e-sports.or.kr/about/Eng/og_img02.gif)
