EPTNo Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL - Page 91
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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Trasko
Sweden983 Posts
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363249 Mods can close this if they wish so we have a central location for all of this. If not, no prob, we can still discuss stuff here as well. =) | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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blue_blood
Korea (South)9 Posts
Were you around when the GOM classic was cancelled? Players *were* overworked. Players were still overworked even without GOM classic, leading to changes on PL, OSL and MSL schedules. There is a reason why Flash was called "Child Labor Terran" and Jaedong Oz became a meme. [/QUOTE] Nope. The reason "players were overworked" was complete bullshit provided by KeSPA. What they just wanted was to monopolize the Korean BW scene without paying anything to Blizzard. Before KeSPA took most of the power, the leagues were running independently, with MSL and OSL, but what KeSPA did was to strip broadcasters of their rights, and demanded "broadcast fees" for doing simply nothing. They took about $4.5M as broadcast fees. However, they did not pay a penny to Blizzard as copyright fees for Starcraft. Also, KeSPA started to "overwork" players, and expanded Proleague from three days/week to 5days/week. It's fully on account of KeSPA that players were overworked. Also, GOM classic was formed, as a legitimate league.They paid some money to Blizzard as copyright fees. However, KeSPA was not that pleasant about having another league that threatened its monopoly on e-sports scene. They withdrew all players from GOM classic, or just about any league that was not sanctioned by KeSPA. Then, since GOM did not have many players renowned for BW that time, GOM classic closed down. That's why GOM is still very bitter of KeSPA. For some years to come, Blizzard was also very bitter of KeSPA, because KeSPA simply "killed" the only legitimatte BW-league in Korea to monopolize with a league that did not keep copyright rules. For that reason, KeSPA players were later banned from playing SC2 until 2011, when a truce was set btw Blizzard and KeSPA. Until that time, GOM has been only legitimate party in Korea that could broadcast Starcraft or any Blizzard materials in Korea. That's the reason why GOMTV's GSL is two years ahead of KeSPA in terms of introducing SC2. In that light, I can just see this as an attempt to monopolize SC2 scene by KeSPA again. With KeSPA players also not participating for MLG, I never buy "scheduling issue" excuse by KeSPA. What they want is no competition not run by KeSPA in Korea. | ||
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ShiroKaisen
United States1082 Posts
Every. Single. Team. Had. Proleague. This. Weekend. They can't send ANYONE. And they can't just "reschedule Proleague" either. It's on a weekly televised schedule set MONTHS in advance. Stop bringing up the MLG thing as some sort of wrongdoing by KeSPA. | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
On August 26 2012 13:41 ShiroKaisen wrote: Dude. The scheduling issue is ABSOLUTELY true for MLG. This isn't deniable. Every. Single. Team. Had. Proleague. This. Weekend. They can't send ANYONE. And they can't just "reschedule Proleague" either. It's on a weekly televised schedule set MONTHS in advance. Stop bringing up the MLG thing as some sort of wrongdoing by KeSPA. That is fine, but that is really not the issue I feel. How many players, per team, per match, are playing in PL? A max of 7. There are plenty of players that could still go. There are times in GSTL when not all of the players are there for a match, some are at DreamHack, some are at MLG, whatever. The issue at heart is KeSPAs demand to control their players and the rights of those players. I am not saying that I agree that they weren't busy, but I still disagree with the lack of player's rights in the matter. I am tired of people talking about how KeSPA is fine to control their players because they give some of them money, room, board, and food. That sounds a lot like indentured servitude in some cases...which we as Westerners generally find abhorrent. I am just tired of talking, debating, and arguing about this. The fact remains that hardly any of us know what it is really like or have any idea how it would turn out if ESF backed down, if KeSPA backed down, or whatever. We are speculating our hearts out and I am tired of it myself. I support the ESFs decision because to me they wouldn't have done it if they didn't feel it necessary. I hope things turn out good in the end for both the players and the sport. | ||
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ShiroKaisen
United States1082 Posts
On August 26 2012 14:07 TheAmazombie wrote: That is fine, but that is really not the issue I feel. How many players, per team, per match, are playing in PL? A max of 7. There are plenty of players that could still go. There are times in GSTL when not all of the players are there for a match, some are at DreamHack, some are at MLG, whatever. The issue at heart is KeSPAs demand to control their players and the rights of those players. I am not saying that I agree that they weren't busy, but I still disagree with the lack of player's rights in the matter. I am tired of people talking about how KeSPA is fine to control their players because they give some of them money, room, board, and food. That sounds a lot like indentured servitude in some cases...which we as Westerners generally find abhorrent. I am just tired of talking, debating, and arguing about this. The fact remains that hardly any of us know what it is really like or have any idea how it would turn out if ESF backed down, if KeSPA backed down, or whatever. We are speculating our hearts out and I am tired of it myself. I support the ESFs decision because to me they wouldn't have done it if they didn't feel it necessary. I hope things turn out good in the end for both the players and the sport. I never said that KeSPA's right to barr players from doing stuff. Just that in this particular case, the teams absolutely would not have sent anyone even if they were allowed to. In this particular case, there is absolutely nothing wrong here. Because really, each team only has about 10 players. If you take out the six or seven who prepared for Proleauge, you're left with a few B-teamers. A sponsor is absolutely never going to fit the bill to send KT Lizzy, CJ Bong, or a similar player to MLG when they could save their money and send Flash and EffOrt next time. That said, I do think that KeSPA preventing players from entering GSL is silly. That decision should be up to the teams' head coaches. | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
On August 26 2012 14:14 ShiroKaisen wrote: I never said that KeSPA's right to barr players from doing stuff. Just that in this particular case, the teams absolutely would not have sent anyone even if they were allowed to. In this particular case, there is absolutely nothing wrong here. Because really, each team only has about 10 players. If you take out the six or seven who prepared for Proleauge, you're left with a few B-teamers. A sponsor is absolutely never going to fit the bill to send KT Lizzy, CJ Bong, or a similar player to MLG when they could save their money and send Flash and EffOrt next time. That said, I do think that KeSPA preventing players from entering GSL is silly. That decision should be up to the teams' head coaches. It all depends on what their deal with MLG is. If MLG paid for players to come, we as fans and MLGs sponsors would have appreciated seeing the lower level players that don't get much attention. I am not disagreeing with you as a whole and we don't really know what all went into their decisions, but for some reasons sponsors send a foreign "b-teamers" and weaker players to events all over all of the time, and trust me, I do not understand that in most cases, so I just feel that it it could be seen as justified. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
On August 26 2012 14:34 raga4ka wrote: So any news on this so called Kespa "Giant Project" ? Not yet, just speculation. | ||
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lastprobeALIVE
United States974 Posts
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:56 VManOfMana wrote: Were you around when the GOM classic was cancelled? Players *were* overworked. Players were still overworked even without GOM classic, leading to changes on PL, OSL and MSL schedules. There is a reason why Flash was called "Child Labor Terran" and Jaedong Oz became a meme. I give KeSPA the benefit of the doubt because I truly believe the best thing for eSports is to develop without interference of the game developers, avoiding a conflict of interest between providing the best competition and selling the most profitable game. Up to this point, KeSPA is the only entity that has managed to do so in a prolonged, sustainable way. It's not perfect, but sure is a more solid foundation to build on than the current Starcraft II scene. Players like Flash wouldn't get the top-class treatment he got. Jaedong, Sea and Baby would be jobless and scraping to get by after WeMade and Hwaseung left. Violet would not get the same treatment for leukemia while still being a registered progamer with a contract. It is true that not everybody gets the same treatment and benefits, but its something *possible* with hard work and dedication, while *impossible* anywhere else. I do have a problem with people acting as if eSports started with Blizzard blessing the masses with Starcraft II. People here need to realize that KeSPA is entitled to do whatever is better for the business they have developed for all these years. The prestige of PL, OSL and its players were not developed overnight, and it is their right to protect it while expanding to new markets with a well-planned strategy (see MGL negotiations.) The "huge" international scene this forum and reddit gloat so much about still doesn't have a sustainable model because people is not willing to put their money where their mouth is. Why should KeSPA be obligated to operate the same way? It's like going back to the days of 4U, POS snd G.O., except with a lot of makeup and under the dictatorship of Blizzard. One big difference from back when GOM Classic was around and now, is that there is now no MSL to participate in. So players right now have more time than ever before. If they could work fine with two individual leagues before hand, there is no reason why not they can't work it now. | ||
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blue_blood
Korea (South)9 Posts
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blue_blood
Korea (South)9 Posts
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drivec
United States354 Posts
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On August 26 2012 17:16 blue_blood wrote: And one note to add: it is NOT KeSPA that pays wages and provides room&board to the players. It is the sponser of (or usually, the owner of) the team (for example, KT, SKT, Samsung, etc.) that pays wages and provides room & board to the players. Nor does KeSPA provides any fund for running the proleague teams. The only thing KeSPA does is to collect broadcast fees from Ongamenet and use them on "projects" that KeSPA refuses to reveal in the form of annual report. (Note: during KeSPA vs. Blizzard case, KeSPA was asked to reveal its annual report by the court order. KeSPA refused.) In fact, both the Starleague and Proleague are run mostly out of Ongamenet and the sponsor's money, and it is entirely Ongamenet's responsibility to organize the event, and KeSPA only provides referees that don't know what to do in times of trouble. I thought Kespa was made from the sponsors of each team ? I read it here on TL somewhere . Isn't Kespa a combined board of directors from each sponsor ? | ||
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chisuri
Vietnam789 Posts
On August 26 2012 18:07 raga4ka wrote: I thought Kespa was made from the sponsors of each team ? I read it here on TL somewhere . Isn't Kespa a combined board of directors from each sponsor ? Look at his post count... He was making up things. In fact OGN is also part of KeSPA's BoD. And KeSPA represents the teams- the sponsors to be exact. | ||
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hydrogg
United States377 Posts
On August 26 2012 18:07 raga4ka wrote: I thought Kespa was made from the sponsors of each team ? I read it here on TL somewhere . Isn't Kespa a combined board of directors from each sponsor ? This is true but most people don't know that and think that KeSPA is completely separate from the teams. Also KeSPA runs Proleague while OnGameNet runs the OSL. | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
I wonder what that "big project" is. Common Kespa stop being so childish, it seems like they are afraid or something. | ||
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