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On August 20 2012 12:12 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 20 2012 12:05 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:09 forsooth wrote:On August 20 2012 10:03 BeeNu wrote:
If I have to be perfectly honest, I absolutely despise random players, I probably only hate them a tiny bit less than hackers. Oh sure you have every right to play random if you wish to, I just fucking hate you and consider every win you ever get to be unearned and any match against you is a complete waste of time. Rofl, why would it bother you that much? SC2 isn't a game of seeing a picture during the loading screen and responding with a completely pre-planned series of clicks and button presses that must go unchanged and uninterrupted or the sky is falling. It's compared to chess for a reason. You need to think about what you're doing, and that doesn't mean that thinking only starts after the first 5 minutes. It just irritates me because it is a complete waste of time. It irritates me because Random players make massive amounts of excuses to justify why playing Random is totally fair and balanced even though it's a total crock. Look, I understand the appeal of playing Random but if you're gonna do it just be honest about what it is, by selecting Random you automatically give yourself an unfair advantage and nothing you do beyond that can undo that, accept that you prioritize your enjoyment of random over having a balanced and "proper" game and also understand you will never come close to having the same ladder experience as people who don't pick random. I wouldn't really be annoyed if so many people who played Random didn't seem so entirely delusional. It isn't an unfair advantage, it's actually more of a disadvantage than anything else. You'd know this if you actually spent anytime playing it. The fact is, playing a single race is easy compared to trying to play all 3. You're the one being delusional. You have literally no argument for your completely wrong statement and I can also promise you I play this game more and at a higher level than you.
And what argument do you have for your wrong statement. You basically just did an "i'm right, you're wrong." without a shred of reasoning to back it up.
Look, if Random was truly an unfair advantage, there'd be pro players playing Random. The fact is there aren't any because playing Random is too difficult at any level compared to playing a single race. Go and ask TLO yourself the next time you see him, he'll admit to it just like everyone that's actually tried played Random for a long period of time will admit to it. It's not an opinion it's fact.
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On August 20 2012 12:14 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:05 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:09 forsooth wrote:On August 20 2012 10:03 BeeNu wrote:
If I have to be perfectly honest, I absolutely despise random players, I probably only hate them a tiny bit less than hackers. Oh sure you have every right to play random if you wish to, I just fucking hate you and consider every win you ever get to be unearned and any match against you is a complete waste of time. Rofl, why would it bother you that much? SC2 isn't a game of seeing a picture during the loading screen and responding with a completely pre-planned series of clicks and button presses that must go unchanged and uninterrupted or the sky is falling. It's compared to chess for a reason. You need to think about what you're doing, and that doesn't mean that thinking only starts after the first 5 minutes. It just irritates me because it is a complete waste of time. It irritates me because Random players make massive amounts of excuses to justify why playing Random is totally fair and balanced even though it's a total crock. Look, I understand the appeal of playing Random but if you're gonna do it just be honest about what it is, by selecting Random you automatically give yourself an unfair advantage and nothing you do beyond that can undo that, accept that you prioritize your enjoyment of random over having a balanced and "proper" game and also understand you will never come close to having the same ladder experience as people who don't pick random. I wouldn't really be annoyed if so many people who played Random didn't seem so entirely delusional. SC2 is a game of unfair, balanced advantages. Learn to deal with it. I'm just gonna paste my original quote because again, apparently picking random is SO advantageous that you will win lots of tournaments. Or at the very least rank high on ladder. Maybe not, but you'll get lots of portraits. + Show Spoiler +Of all the major tournaments (that I care to list),
0 random players have won GSL.
0 random players have won MLG.
0 random players have won ESL.
0 random players have won IPL.
0 random players have won NASL.
0 random players have won Dreamhack.
0 random players have won HSC.
Name a tournament I didn't list so I can say 0.
Of all the players in grandmasters,
NA has three.
EU has one.
KOR has zero.
Of all the players in masters,
4.2% of NA play random.
3.1% of EU play random.
3.7% of KOR play random. Also, lol @ proper game.
You're really trying to use tourney winnings to make your point? I'm intellectually insulted you need me to explain why that is retarded. These people make SC2 their entire career, they spend all day playing this game, obviously when you're at that point you don't have the time to be learning 3 races when there is an infinite amount of practice to be putting into winning with just 1 race and in a tourney setting MMR means nothing unlike in ladder.
Also yes, I put "proper" in quotations because technically there is no thing but what I mean is a game where neither player has an inherent advantage.
And what argument do you have for your wrong statement. You basically just did an "i'm right, you're wrong." without a shred of reasoning to back it up.
Look, if Random was truly an unfair advantage, there'd be pro players playing Random. The fact is there aren't any because playing Random is too difficult at any level compared to playing a single race. Go and ask TLO yourself the next time you see him, he'll admit to it just like everyone that's actually tried played Random for a long period of time will admit to it. It's not an opinion it's fact
Well I just explained the whole part about why pros don't play random. As for the other part, playing Random gives an inherent advantage in the fact that one player doesn't know the starting race of the other player, BAM inherent advantage. Also, in ladder you are both bound to the same MMR so even though your attention is divided between 3 races you're still at the same skill level, just with an advantage every single time.
This should really all be common sense, kinda sad and just so delusional.
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Can we close this thread? This arguement won't ever be decided. There are 3 groups of people:
1. Random players
2. Others that hate Random
3. Those that are indifferent.
People aren't going to be swayed to change groups. There is no reason to keep brining this up.
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On August 20 2012 12:18 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:14 rd wrote:On August 20 2012 12:05 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:09 forsooth wrote:On August 20 2012 10:03 BeeNu wrote:
If I have to be perfectly honest, I absolutely despise random players, I probably only hate them a tiny bit less than hackers. Oh sure you have every right to play random if you wish to, I just fucking hate you and consider every win you ever get to be unearned and any match against you is a complete waste of time. Rofl, why would it bother you that much? SC2 isn't a game of seeing a picture during the loading screen and responding with a completely pre-planned series of clicks and button presses that must go unchanged and uninterrupted or the sky is falling. It's compared to chess for a reason. You need to think about what you're doing, and that doesn't mean that thinking only starts after the first 5 minutes. It just irritates me because it is a complete waste of time. It irritates me because Random players make massive amounts of excuses to justify why playing Random is totally fair and balanced even though it's a total crock. Look, I understand the appeal of playing Random but if you're gonna do it just be honest about what it is, by selecting Random you automatically give yourself an unfair advantage and nothing you do beyond that can undo that, accept that you prioritize your enjoyment of random over having a balanced and "proper" game and also understand you will never come close to having the same ladder experience as people who don't pick random. I wouldn't really be annoyed if so many people who played Random didn't seem so entirely delusional. SC2 is a game of unfair, balanced advantages. Learn to deal with it. I'm just gonna paste my original quote because again, apparently picking random is SO advantageous that you will win lots of tournaments. Or at the very least rank high on ladder. Maybe not, but you'll get lots of portraits. + Show Spoiler +Of all the major tournaments (that I care to list),
0 random players have won GSL.
0 random players have won MLG.
0 random players have won ESL.
0 random players have won IPL.
0 random players have won NASL.
0 random players have won Dreamhack.
0 random players have won HSC.
Name a tournament I didn't list so I can say 0.
Of all the players in grandmasters,
NA has three.
EU has one.
KOR has zero.
Of all the players in masters,
4.2% of NA play random.
3.1% of EU play random.
3.7% of KOR play random. Also, lol @ proper game. You're really trying to use tourney winnings to make your point? I'm intellectually insulted you need me to explain why that is retarded. These people make SC2 their entire career, they spend all day playing this game, obviously when you're at that point you don't have the time to be learning 3 races when there is an infinite amount of practice to be putting into winning with just 1 race and in a tourney setting MMR means nothing unlike in ladder. Also yes, I put "proper" in quotations because technically there is no thing but what I mean is a game where neither player has an inherent advantage.
It's just over-the-top evidence that implies that when you're at any relevant level of skill in SC2, random players will take very few to no games off of you. They're extremely rare in higher leagues because it's difficult to win consistently against much more consistent players. Not just pro players. You'd know that if you read any further.
Please re-read the edited post of mine you quoted, I'd love to be humored by the response. I hope you realize the monumental irony in whining about random, while simultaneously boasting your own skill level. At that point you should probably realize your opinion is fairly irrelevant. There is no issue with random. Deal with it. Thousands of others have by literally in the most plainest form, getting better. GG.
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On August 20 2012 12:00 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 10:53 FaiL_SaFe wrote:On August 20 2012 10:12 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 10:05 RandomPlayer wrote:
I always tell my race if I am asked, when playing random odd that noone has said yet "i tell them ym race when it starts" probably vbecause they know that they get a huge advantage from them not knowing your race and only tell them there race in very specific circumstance so they dont get labelled as rude I play random and I personally always make a point of telling my opponent what race I rolled, hell I even do it in the random versus random mu frequently. I also know of other random players who do the same. Contrary to what way too many people in this thread seem to think, there are plenty of random players (myself included) who play random because a) we want to learn the game better as a whole and/or b) we can't decide which race to play. Sure there are random players who are cheesy little shits and just play random so they can 11/11 rax, cannon rush and 6-pool all the time but don't put all of us in same boat. If you play random you are no different from them If you tell people your race at the start it is an entirely meaningless gesture that your opponent should ignore if he knows what's good for him.
Just one simple question, why?
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On August 20 2012 12:20 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:18 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 12:14 rd wrote:On August 20 2012 12:05 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:09 forsooth wrote:On August 20 2012 10:03 BeeNu wrote:
If I have to be perfectly honest, I absolutely despise random players, I probably only hate them a tiny bit less than hackers. Oh sure you have every right to play random if you wish to, I just fucking hate you and consider every win you ever get to be unearned and any match against you is a complete waste of time. Rofl, why would it bother you that much? SC2 isn't a game of seeing a picture during the loading screen and responding with a completely pre-planned series of clicks and button presses that must go unchanged and uninterrupted or the sky is falling. It's compared to chess for a reason. You need to think about what you're doing, and that doesn't mean that thinking only starts after the first 5 minutes. It just irritates me because it is a complete waste of time. It irritates me because Random players make massive amounts of excuses to justify why playing Random is totally fair and balanced even though it's a total crock. Look, I understand the appeal of playing Random but if you're gonna do it just be honest about what it is, by selecting Random you automatically give yourself an unfair advantage and nothing you do beyond that can undo that, accept that you prioritize your enjoyment of random over having a balanced and "proper" game and also understand you will never come close to having the same ladder experience as people who don't pick random. I wouldn't really be annoyed if so many people who played Random didn't seem so entirely delusional. SC2 is a game of unfair, balanced advantages. Learn to deal with it. I'm just gonna paste my original quote because again, apparently picking random is SO advantageous that you will win lots of tournaments. Or at the very least rank high on ladder. Maybe not, but you'll get lots of portraits. + Show Spoiler +Of all the major tournaments (that I care to list),
0 random players have won GSL.
0 random players have won MLG.
0 random players have won ESL.
0 random players have won IPL.
0 random players have won NASL.
0 random players have won Dreamhack.
0 random players have won HSC.
Name a tournament I didn't list so I can say 0.
Of all the players in grandmasters,
NA has three.
EU has one.
KOR has zero.
Of all the players in masters,
4.2% of NA play random.
3.1% of EU play random.
3.7% of KOR play random. Also, lol @ proper game. You're really trying to use tourney winnings to make your point? I'm intellectually insulted you need me to explain why that is retarded. These people make SC2 their entire career, they spend all day playing this game, obviously when you're at that point you don't have the time to be learning 3 races when there is an infinite amount of practice to be putting into winning with just 1 race and in a tourney setting MMR means nothing unlike in ladder. Also yes, I put "proper" in quotations because technically there is no thing but what I mean is a game where neither player has an inherent advantage. It's just over-the-top evidence that implies that when you're at any relevant level of skill in SC2, random players will take very few to no games off of you. They're extremely rare in higher leagues because it's difficult to win consistently against much more consistent players. Not just pro players. You'd know that if you read any further. Please re-read the edited post of mine you quoted, I'd love to be humored by the response. I hope you realize the monumental irony in whining about random, while simultaneously boasting your own skill level. At that point you should probably realize your opinion is fairly irrelevant.
I did read what you wrote, unlike most people in this thread I actually read things before I respond. Ok since you're still clearly missing the basic point I'm going to give you the simplistic version of it to grasp.
Playing Random DOES NOT help you get to GM or likely even high Masters.
Playing Random DOES help you in every specific individual match you play.
Learning 3 races doesn't matter on ladder because of MMR.
Learning 3 races does matter in tournaments because there is NO MMR.
Got it? Good.
On August 20 2012 12:29 FaiL_SaFe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:00 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:53 FaiL_SaFe wrote:On August 20 2012 10:12 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 10:05 RandomPlayer wrote:
I always tell my race if I am asked, when playing random odd that noone has said yet "i tell them ym race when it starts" probably vbecause they know that they get a huge advantage from them not knowing your race and only tell them there race in very specific circumstance so they dont get labelled as rude I play random and I personally always make a point of telling my opponent what race I rolled, hell I even do it in the random versus random mu frequently. I also know of other random players who do the same. Contrary to what way too many people in this thread seem to think, there are plenty of random players (myself included) who play random because a) we want to learn the game better as a whole and/or b) we can't decide which race to play. Sure there are random players who are cheesy little shits and just play random so they can 11/11 rax, cannon rush and 6-pool all the time but don't put all of us in same boat. If you play random you are no different from them If you tell people your race at the start it is an entirely meaningless gesture that your opponent should ignore if he knows what's good for him. Just one simple question, why?
Because something close to half the people who say what race they got are lying, from my experience.
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Random is like ladder fear. It sticks out and people think it should be changed. I think not; the tradeoff is fine.
Basically, random opponents give you a chance to practice fundamentals, like scouting and reacting to what the opponent is doing. If going 1 gate expand or gas/pool every once in a while is so terrible that you feel you're behind, good. You've probably won a game from behind before, so do it again and pretend you're better than your opponent just like in every other victory.
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On August 20 2012 12:29 FaiL_SaFe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:00 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:53 FaiL_SaFe wrote:On August 20 2012 10:12 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 10:05 RandomPlayer wrote:
I always tell my race if I am asked, when playing random odd that noone has said yet "i tell them ym race when it starts" probably vbecause they know that they get a huge advantage from them not knowing your race and only tell them there race in very specific circumstance so they dont get labelled as rude I play random and I personally always make a point of telling my opponent what race I rolled, hell I even do it in the random versus random mu frequently. I also know of other random players who do the same. Contrary to what way too many people in this thread seem to think, there are plenty of random players (myself included) who play random because a) we want to learn the game better as a whole and/or b) we can't decide which race to play. Sure there are random players who are cheesy little shits and just play random so they can 11/11 rax, cannon rush and 6-pool all the time but don't put all of us in same boat. If you play random you are no different from them If you tell people your race at the start it is an entirely meaningless gesture that your opponent should ignore if he knows what's good for him. Just one simple question, why?
If I was to roll ZvP and say 'hi, I'm zerg, please FFE', anyone who trusts me on the ladder is insane. I wish that wasn't the case, but they have no way of knowing I'm not trying to fool them and there are a lot of people who would try that.
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Just going to throw in my .02 and say that strong conventional play will outpower any random player we run into on the ladder... it isn't like MKP is playing random toss at my MMR, so it doesn't really matter to me. =/
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On August 20 2012 12:33 Ansinjunger wrote:
Random is like ladder fear. It sticks out and people think it should be changed. I think not; the tradeoff is fine.
Basically, random opponents give you a chance to practice fundamentals, like scouting and reacting to what the opponent is doing. If going 1 gate expand or gas/pool every once in a while is so terrible that you feel you're behind, good. You've probably won a game from behind before, so do it again and pretend you're better than your opponent just like in every other victory.
Playing against Random is good for nothing except practicing my blind 6 pool.
Just going to throw in my .02 and say that strong conventional play will outpower any random player we run into on the ladder... it isn't like MKP is playing random toss at my MMR, so it doesn't really matter to me. =/
True for the most part except even winning against a Random player is a hollow and meaningless victory, better to just instantly leave or do some blind all-in like a 6 pool and just end the pointless match as soon as possible unless you're the type of person who really cares about ladder points.
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On August 20 2012 10:05 RandomPlayer wrote:
I always tell my race if I am asked, when playing random
There can only be one proper answer to the question of race.
"Scout it"
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On August 20 2012 12:38 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:33 Ansinjunger wrote:
Random is like ladder fear. It sticks out and people think it should be changed. I think not; the tradeoff is fine.
Basically, random opponents give you a chance to practice fundamentals, like scouting and reacting to what the opponent is doing. If going 1 gate expand or gas/pool every once in a while is so terrible that you feel you're behind, good. You've probably won a game from behind before, so do it again and pretend you're better than your opponent just like in every other victory. Playing against Random is good for nothing except practicing my blind 6 pool. Show nested quote +Just going to throw in my .02 and say that strong conventional play will outpower any random player we run into on the ladder... it isn't like MKP is playing random toss at my MMR, so it doesn't really matter to me. =/ True for the most part except even winning against a Random player is a hollow and meaningless victory, better to just instantly leave or do some blind all-in like a 6 pool and just end the pointless match as soon as possible unless you're the type of person who really cares about ladder points.
On the contrary, using it as practice for different builds and situations is exactly why it's worth playing out and blind cheesing is 'really caring about ladder points'.
Unfortunately, that's often annoying as hell to bother with.
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On August 20 2012 12:30 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:20 rd wrote:On August 20 2012 12:18 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 12:14 rd wrote:On August 20 2012 12:05 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:09 forsooth wrote:On August 20 2012 10:03 BeeNu wrote:
If I have to be perfectly honest, I absolutely despise random players, I probably only hate them a tiny bit less than hackers. Oh sure you have every right to play random if you wish to, I just fucking hate you and consider every win you ever get to be unearned and any match against you is a complete waste of time. Rofl, why would it bother you that much? SC2 isn't a game of seeing a picture during the loading screen and responding with a completely pre-planned series of clicks and button presses that must go unchanged and uninterrupted or the sky is falling. It's compared to chess for a reason. You need to think about what you're doing, and that doesn't mean that thinking only starts after the first 5 minutes. It just irritates me because it is a complete waste of time. It irritates me because Random players make massive amounts of excuses to justify why playing Random is totally fair and balanced even though it's a total crock. Look, I understand the appeal of playing Random but if you're gonna do it just be honest about what it is, by selecting Random you automatically give yourself an unfair advantage and nothing you do beyond that can undo that, accept that you prioritize your enjoyment of random over having a balanced and "proper" game and also understand you will never come close to having the same ladder experience as people who don't pick random. I wouldn't really be annoyed if so many people who played Random didn't seem so entirely delusional. SC2 is a game of unfair, balanced advantages. Learn to deal with it. I'm just gonna paste my original quote because again, apparently picking random is SO advantageous that you will win lots of tournaments. Or at the very least rank high on ladder. Maybe not, but you'll get lots of portraits. + Show Spoiler +Of all the major tournaments (that I care to list),
0 random players have won GSL.
0 random players have won MLG.
0 random players have won ESL.
0 random players have won IPL.
0 random players have won NASL.
0 random players have won Dreamhack.
0 random players have won HSC.
Name a tournament I didn't list so I can say 0.
Of all the players in grandmasters,
NA has three.
EU has one.
KOR has zero.
Of all the players in masters,
4.2% of NA play random.
3.1% of EU play random.
3.7% of KOR play random. Also, lol @ proper game. You're really trying to use tourney winnings to make your point? I'm intellectually insulted you need me to explain why that is retarded. These people make SC2 their entire career, they spend all day playing this game, obviously when you're at that point you don't have the time to be learning 3 races when there is an infinite amount of practice to be putting into winning with just 1 race and in a tourney setting MMR means nothing unlike in ladder. Also yes, I put "proper" in quotations because technically there is no thing but what I mean is a game where neither player has an inherent advantage. It's just over-the-top evidence that implies that when you're at any relevant level of skill in SC2, random players will take very few to no games off of you. They're extremely rare in higher leagues because it's difficult to win consistently against much more consistent players. Not just pro players. You'd know that if you read any further. Please re-read the edited post of mine you quoted, I'd love to be humored by the response. I hope you realize the monumental irony in whining about random, while simultaneously boasting your own skill level. At that point you should probably realize your opinion is fairly irrelevant. I did read what you wrote, unlike most people in this thread I actually read things before I respond. Ok since you're still clearly missing the basic point I'm going to give you the simplistic version of it to grasp. Playing Random DOES NOT help you get to GM or likely even high Masters. Playing Random DOES help you in every specific individual match you play. Learning 3 races doesn't matter on ladder because of MMR. Learning 3 races does matter in tournaments because there is NO MMR. Got it? Good. Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:29 FaiL_SaFe wrote:On August 20 2012 12:00 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 10:53 FaiL_SaFe wrote:On August 20 2012 10:12 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 10:05 RandomPlayer wrote:
I always tell my race if I am asked, when playing random odd that noone has said yet "i tell them ym race when it starts" probably vbecause they know that they get a huge advantage from them not knowing your race and only tell them there race in very specific circumstance so they dont get labelled as rude I play random and I personally always make a point of telling my opponent what race I rolled, hell I even do it in the random versus random mu frequently. I also know of other random players who do the same. Contrary to what way too many people in this thread seem to think, there are plenty of random players (myself included) who play random because a) we want to learn the game better as a whole and/or b) we can't decide which race to play. Sure there are random players who are cheesy little shits and just play random so they can 11/11 rax, cannon rush and 6-pool all the time but don't put all of us in same boat. If you play random you are no different from them If you tell people your race at the start it is an entirely meaningless gesture that your opponent should ignore if he knows what's good for him. Just one simple question, why? Because something close to half the people who say what race they got are lying, from my experience.
1) That wasn't the part of your post I was referring to. I was asking about the first part. I don't play exceptionally greedy, I almost never cheese and I try my best to play as straight up as possible. Lumping all random players together is just absurd. I'm in Plat on the NA server. I'm fucking GARBAGE. The thing is it doesn't actually much matter what race I play because my general mechanics, multitasking and decision making are crap. Playing random gives me a chance to experience and practice every single matchup and get insight into all three races. If I ever, by some miracle managed to get into masters, I'd almost certainly settle down and pick a race. I also definitely wish that instead of waiting to spawn to find out what race you rolled the game simply told both my opponent and myself what I was playing as at the loading screen.
2) I'm not suggesting that everyone should take my word for it (although If you meet me on ladder I'm not going to lie about what race I spawned as). Of course they should check, but as people have pointed out it really only massively affects one matchup out of 9. Also, that statement about how about half of the people who tell you their race are lying about it absolutely fucking reeks of some combination of confirmation bias and a limited sample size. All that means is that in the minuscule subsection of bnet that you play in you may, or may not have encountered a large number of assholes. Hating random players unconditionally is like wanting to kill every New York Giants fan on the planet because some guy in a car with Giants plates cut you off on the highway. It's completely irrational.
3) Apollo plays random. Why do you hate Apollo so much? That's just mean.
4) I actually happen to like playing Random. I'm sure as hell not going to apologize for that fact and when I ladder I try my best to play as normally and fairly as possible. So don't fucking put me on or near the same level as people who hack.
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random has no place on the ladder or in a competitive setting; given an unlimited skill and knowledge ceiling the random player would always be at an advantage. It is true that it takes more commitment to play 3 races well instead of one but that does not excuse the disadvantage it puts the other player at.
If people want to mix it up that's great, but if random is to be part of the ladder the other player should be informed of the race that was randomed. Many people I've played will honestly share their race when they random (which in many ways speaks for the former argument) but it only takes a few assholes to discount the goodwill of many.
tl:dr, it should say what they randomed.
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The OP's argument makes no sense at all. "They choose to play random, it shouldn't affect me." When they choose to play terran, or protoss, or zerg, it all still affects you. You have to adapt your play to the matchup. Random is simply another matchup you have to adapt to. Basically the argument boils down to "I'm not comfortable in this matchup and so I'm gonna whine about it." The same way people complain about imbalance in other matchups. You can put a pylon on your natural on most maps and scout your opponent in time to decide forge or gateway. You can learn to go gateway openings against zerg. You can scout hatch first and simply go nexus or a slightly later low ground forge. Random is fine.
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Random is a 4th race. It's fun and suitable for ladder but not so much at tournaments. There are viable ways to play against random that will not leave you behind whatsoever. I do the same buidl PvZ that I do PvR(z) completely uninterrupted. You have to learn how to play against random in the same way you have to learn how to paly against other races. Everyone go home.
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You shouldn't get a build order advantage just because you choose to play random.
Random just needs to let the player choose random and tell both players the race in the loading screen. If they want to play random, let them, but don't punish the other race because of it. This fixes the issue and doesn't hurt the random player at all(They shouldn't rely on the other race not knowing their own race anyway).
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
In team games I keep my race a secret but when I random on 1v1 ladder I always tell my opponent what race I am when they ask. I don't cheese unless I am really bored so it doesn't bother me to reveal my race.
Random player disadvantages:
Can't plan a build until the game starts
Need to learn more matchups, more builds, more everything
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On August 20 2012 12:59 shadowboxer wrote:
You shouldn't get a build order advantage just because you choose to play random.
Random just needs to let the player choose random and tell both players the race in the loading screen. If they want to play random, let them, but don't punish the other race because of it. This fixes the issue and doesn't hurt the random player at all(They shouldn't rely on the other race not knowing their own race anyway).
But you don't get a build order advantage. You merely have a 1/6 chance to get a (debatable) build order advantage every time you queue. The cons of playing random out-weigh this tremendously beyond lower leagues. It's not an issue at all, nor is any race being punished -- you could literally take this perspective and apply it to each match-up where each race is "punished" (at a disadvantage) due to inherent racial features.
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On August 20 2012 13:08 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:59 shadowboxer wrote:
You shouldn't get a build order advantage just because you choose to play random.
Random just needs to let the player choose random and tell both players the race in the loading screen. If they want to play random, let them, but don't punish the other race because of it. This fixes the issue and doesn't hurt the random player at all(They shouldn't rely on the other race not knowing their own race anyway).
But you don't get a build order advantage. You merely have a 1/6 chance to get a (debatable) build order advantage every time you queue. The cons of playing random out-weigh this tremendously beyond lower leagues. It's not an issue at all, nor is any race being punished -- you could literally take this perspective and apply it to each match-up where each race is "punished" (at a disadvantage) due to inherent racial features.
Those are all in-game factors. The 'random' advantage is an entirely out-of-game factor, where normal match information is denied.
There's no reason for it to exist, and if it doesn't matter, as you say, then there's no impact to adding it.
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EPT
