EPTHeart of the Swarm TvP Battle Report! - Page 44
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
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Qntc.YuMe
United States792 Posts
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
On August 14 2012 11:42 playa wrote: What difference does it make if it's initially scoutable when I have no idea what variant is coming before it's too late. It's a joke to basically have to fast expo against something that can be an all-in coming. If they make banshees I'm supposed to make a unit that loses to everything in the game and can't even take a banshee 1 on 1? Wtf kinda stupid counter is that? Gateway units are worthless without upgrades. 1/1/1 abuses that way too hard. Combine that with having to expo quickly... Takes so little skill to execute the 1/1/1 in comparison to defending it. If the super cannon was the only thing they added for toss, I'll take it. Good expansion. Anything else is a bonus. It baffles me that toss players STILL complain about gateway units being underpowerd. How many allins do you have that use ONLY them? Like 10? The fact that you have access to that many allins that incorporate your "underpowered" gateway units and still complain just shows how biased all toss really are. Edit: To be slightly on topic I can't believe that you can get mothership core out before the cyber core. That just baffles me. So basically toss are immune to literally all early attacks. Don't even have to worry about 6 pool anymore. Just make a seige take at your base by 3 mins! Woo! I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the 13 range. I mean is that a joke? Does Blizzard honestly not see what's wrong with that? I mean christ you can just do a nexus-mothership core rush in someone's base and just kill them with that bullshit. Also I don't get how anyone thinks that the Oracle is anything but OP. Especially lategame. All you need is 2 oracles running around entombing all the T and Z expos non-stop. That's absurd. I mean with everything both T and Z have to do lategame, and now we ALSO have to check EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION every 4 seconds to make sure that our mineral fields aren't entombed? What a fucking joke. | ||
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pOnarreT
155 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:14 GoingGoingGone wrote: Okay... my impressions: The Oracle I did NOT understand. I thought Entomb would be a bit more of a micro-heavy thing, the cloaking field against Terran is kinda useless with extremely low HP and Vikings/Scans/Ravens to counter. Not really digging the unit. The Tempest... kinda OK, though I'm not really sure what its purpose is, except breaking tank lines. Mothership core - the cannon is really retarded, but recall is fine (if it costs a crapload of energy) and energize I really love. Terrans: I don't know... nothing special. Mines seem alright, though, depending on the cost. And what is actually a counter to a Warhound? Overall: Meh. Could be worse, could be better. The map is terrible, as well as collapsible towers of Browder. But still - it's early to judge, as the beta isn't even out... and after the real game is out, I expect at least two or three balance patches to get rid of the obvious stinkers. I think the tempest also serves to avoid colo wars in PvP late game. Think about it, PvP not 1a-ing against each other and backing as that is what happens generally in PvP when both players goes for colo... with tempest, P can target othe P's colo as as of now, tempest has bonus damage to massive i think The other thing I could think of is help against late game zerg infestor-broods-lings. We all know that only a vortex could crush this composition from P, but I think with the tempest, zerg couldn't just 1a and spam fungals 'cause toss could pick of broodlords... Maybe mothership core is for early aggression? I dunno, but 1-1-1 is still hard to stop if you didn't go for 1 gate expo or Hero's anti puma 1-1-1 build. So maybe now you could use another opener and not die to 1-1-1 with the help of the core | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:02 Acritter wrote: There are no changes to bio. None. Zip. Nada. Nothing new that Protoss gets can shut it down, and there are no nerfs to Terran. Unless mech proves to be WAY stronger (in which case TvP will likely turn out to be majorly imbalanced), bio will continue to be the go-to for this matchup. In other words? The MU will look no different than if we hadn't had HotS at all. Great news, eh guys? I hear Protoss has a couple of pretty strong units that shoot laser beams and lightning at enemy units. | ||
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Wayne123
88 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:42 forsooth wrote: I hear Protoss has a couple of pretty strong units that shoot laser beams and lightning at enemy units. Terrans nowadays aren't doing that badly with bio against lasers and lightning, especially Terrans named Taeja. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
Though tempest sniping infestors in infestor broodlord is a nice idea. | ||
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kawaiiryuko
United States368 Posts
That said, "Terran macro is impeccable" has gotta be the best troll line in this Battle Report. I have to imagine that D9 is secretly laughing his ass off while trying to keep a straight tone during the cast. I mean, seriously. SERIOUSLY. The play was admittedly substandard, but I'm hoping that once beta hits and real players who aren't doing a "battle report" get to play with things, we'll see some cool replays with people doing awesome things. Just relax, guys. We're here for the long-haul, right? | ||
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sour_eraser
Canada932 Posts
So they think removing Carrier is a good idea but adding Tempest is not? ... | ||
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:38 genius_man16 wrote: Also I don't get how anyone thinks that the Oracle is anything but OP. Especially lategame. All you need is 2 oracles running around entombing all the T and Z expos non-stop. That's absurd. I mean with everything both T and Z have to do lategame, and now we ALSO have to check EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION every 4 seconds to make sure that our mineral fields aren't entombed? What a fucking joke. put 2 cannons at each mineral line. solved | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:38 genius_man16 wrote: Also I don't get how anyone thinks that the Oracle is anything but OP. Especially lategame. All you need is 2 oracles running around entombing all the T and Z expos non-stop. That's absurd. I mean with everything both T and Z have to do lategame, and now we ALSO have to check EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION every 4 seconds to make sure that our mineral fields aren't entombed? What a fucking joke. 2 patroling vikings on different sides of map near mineral lines, hell even 3 stimmed marines can take out oracle. What so OP about it? They arent the problem in PvT, but i guess zergs have harder time stopping them early. | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
I feel like they're trying to make mech work in TvP, except it won't work with enough tempest around (that is, "pure" mech, meaning no vikings). But... I don't know. Could be interesting: if Protoss goes a robo build, expecting bio so wanting to build collosi, but then Protoss spots Terran making mech, they won't be able to switch into tempest immediately (they're really expensive anyhow)... it might just be a late, late game alternative -- From Terran's perspective, to me, Oracles just seem bloody annoying, and I mean that in a bad way. Take other harrassment options: 1) Enemy goes for baneling or hellion drop in my mineral line 2) OH NO! I don't want to lose everything! 3) Few seconds of intense micro 4) I either lose absolutely everything and GG out. Or I lose nothing and go on happy. Or I lose a reasonable amount, and I just go back to making SCV's, and hope I can recover from the economic damage With oracle: 1) Enemy sends in the oracle, zipping by fast 2) Shit, I didn't kill the oracle before it cast its spell 3) Shit, this is annoying, gotta get rid of those shells and then send my workers back to mining 4) Okay, now I can return to the game... aw, fuck, he did it again! *builds more turrets and vikings to intercept those little buggers* Or am I just being unfair/unreasonable? -- I feel sad for zerg. It's supposed to be their expansion pack, but protoss are getting all the neat stuff... like mass recall. Holy shit. I think mass recall will change the meta more than any of the units being added, the kind of stuff we'll see from it... and I was sooooo surprised when I saw the mothership core appear so early, I thought it would need a fleet beacon, turns out it doesn't even need a cybernetics core | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:38 genius_man16 wrote: It baffles me that toss players STILL complain about gateway units being underpowerd. How many allins do you have that use ONLY them? Like 10? The fact that you have access to that many allins that incorporate your "underpowered" gateway units and still complain just shows how biased all toss really are. Edit: To be slightly on topic I can't believe that you can get mothership core out before the cyber core. That just baffles me. So basically toss are immune to literally all early attacks. Don't even have to worry about 6 pool anymore. Just make a seige take at your base by 3 mins! Woo! I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the 13 range. I mean is that a joke? Does Blizzard honestly not see what's wrong with that? I mean christ you can just do a nexus-mothership core rush in someone's base and just kill them with that bullshit. Also I don't get how anyone thinks that the Oracle is anything but OP. Especially lategame. All you need is 2 oracles running around entombing all the T and Z expos non-stop. That's absurd. I mean with everything both T and Z have to do lategame, and now we ALSO have to check EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION every 4 seconds to make sure that our mineral fields aren't entombed? What a fucking joke. Oracles are super broken. I found out firsthand at MLG how ridiculously fast they are. It's to the point where even if you react as fast as you can, you can't stop entomb unless you already happen to have units in the right place. You basically have to have a full turret ring to keep them out. The mothership core is also a joke. Now Protoss can not only warp in units right outside their opponent's base and warp in to defend their own base, they can instantly bring units home if they pick a bad engagement or if their army gets caught out of position during a drop or counterattack. Why the fuck bother with map design if Protoss can just teleport their shit anywhere whenever they want? | ||
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MyLastSerenade
Germany710 Posts
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Spidinko
Slovakia1174 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:27 TheKefka wrote: At about 10 minutes into the game when he sieges the expo of the protoss,bio would have taken a huge dump on those no charge zealots and probably won the game there rofl. That is sooo funny. | ||
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