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On August 14 2012 12:36 0neder wrote:
Stop defending Shaun. If he really cared about SC2's future, he'd speak out and Blizzard would be forced to listen or risk losing even more of their core fan base. He could do that and still cast SC2 unless Blizzard has so much control over tournaments that they could blackball him.
Come on dude. The Battle Reports are basically advertisements for SC2. No one in their right minds would let someone talk shit about their product during their own advertisement. No one would dare talk shit during an advertisement simply because the company can just throw them out in an instant and plug in someone else to promote their product. Hell, if Blizzard gave you the opportunity to cast this Battle Report, what do you think they would do if you criticized everything throughout it? They wouldn't even air your cast.
This BR was neither the time nor the place for Day[9] to criticize HotS. He can criticize it all he wants on a Daily or in a talk show like SotG, but definitely not during one of Blizzard's own promotional videos. Who knows. Maybe he did make some criticisms behind closed doors.
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On August 14 2012 12:44 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:56 Shiori wrote:On August 14 2012 10:55 trifecta wrote:On August 14 2012 10:53 ntssauce wrote:On August 14 2012 10:51 QTIP. wrote:
Holy shit, Protoss looks awful!
Granted the Protoss player played awful. But if Play HOTS means make Stargate units, that is just... lol. the tempest seems interesting... you can lay siege to a terran/zerg like terran does in TvT.... just camp with your army under the tempest and slowly pull the opp appart :D! so now toss has their broodlord It does the DPS of a Roach, costs 300/300/6, and takes 75 seconds to build. Wouldn't get your hopes up. I am correcting this for you, 37.5 seconds to build because the chronoboost will be unlimited.
First of all, chrono does not half the time...
Secondly, chrono is meant to compete with Mules+Inject larva. So if you use your chrono purely for Tempests, then you aren't using them for anything else.
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On August 14 2012 12:49 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:44 johnny123 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:56 Shiori wrote:On August 14 2012 10:55 trifecta wrote:On August 14 2012 10:53 ntssauce wrote:On August 14 2012 10:51 QTIP. wrote:
Holy shit, Protoss looks awful!
Granted the Protoss player played awful. But if Play HOTS means make Stargate units, that is just... lol. the tempest seems interesting... you can lay siege to a terran/zerg like terran does in TvT.... just camp with your army under the tempest and slowly pull the opp appart :D! so now toss has their broodlord It does the DPS of a Roach, costs 300/300/6, and takes 75 seconds to build. Wouldn't get your hopes up. I am correcting this for you, 37.5 seconds to build because the chronoboost will be unlimited. First of all, chrono does not half the time... Secondly, chrono is meant to compete with Mules+Inject larva. So if you use your chrono purely for Tempests, then you aren't using them for anything else.
mothership core disagrees and chronoboost is 50% faster production . You cant argue with facts.
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On August 14 2012 12:46 Vindicare605 wrote:
All I have to say to the vast majority of posters in this thread is.
WAIT FOR FUCKING BETA AND SHUT UP IN THE MEANTIME.
Seriously. After actually PLAYING Heart of the Swarm I can say without absolute certainty that the game plays a hell of a lot better than it looks, I was right there with you guys until I actually went and played the game.
So far in the Battle Reports, all we've seen are cherry picked games designed to show off all of the new units, not necessarily the best way to use each unit just the new units. Each one changes the metagame a lot, both what you liked about it and what you disliked about it.
Tempests are going to be amazing in PvZ and are going to give Protoss a good answer for dealing with Broodlords that they currently don't have.
Warhounds give Terrans the ability to finally go Mech against Protoss, but get shut down fantastically by a unit that wasn't even used against them in this Battle Report. Archons.
Mech by definition is not a style that has a lot of high micro potential but instead relies heavily on positioning and strategy, sure it isn't showy but its a lot different than Bio play and for once is a style that doesn't permanently rely heavily on the Terran's ability to kite and split or get crushed by Protoss AOE.
The game is changing, it's going to be a lot of fun. Just wait until the beta.
You sir are a brave man and a hero. Glad to hear you enjoyed the units. I agree with a lot of the impressions you have and I am looking forward to the slow, more positioning based game HotS seems to be working toward.
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On August 14 2012 12:47 0neder wrote:
How could Browder possibly think that removing risk from strategic decisions is exciting or good game design?
Mothership core = safe fast expo, safe tech, safe harass with NO RISK! Woohoo!
It can't do all those things at once though that's the thing.
Recall costs 125 energy and the Mothership can't carry anymore than 200.
Purify costs 75. Therefor if a Protoss uses Recall he'll have enough energy for ONE purify spell before the core is completely spent, if he's been using it for Energizing his buildings or Casters he won't have enough energy to use Recall or Purify.
The unit makes the Protoss much safer in the early game if they gateway expand sure, but it doesn't change the mid or late game as much as you think it will.
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On August 14 2012 12:46 Vindicare605 wrote:
All I have to say to the vast majority of posters in this thread is.
WAIT FOR FUCKING BETA AND SHUT UP IN THE MEANTIME.
Why..? The whole point is to give feedback, do you really want a unit that can be shift-clicked to block every mineral patch you have and require 0 multi-tasking? Honestly, the core design of that unit in particular is actually really bad, I don't care what state the game is in. If the oracle makes it to beta who knows if it'll be taken out. This goes for the ridiculous range of the tempest or the 1a syndrome of the warhound. Some of this stuff seems fundamentally out of play, and lacks enjoyment compared to other options on the table.
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People freaking out about a silly showmatch meant to show off the new units to the bronze league crowd.
"Look at that horrible macro! Look at the zero multitasking! It's almost as if he's not even trying to play a serious high level game!"
It's funny.
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On August 14 2012 12:47 0neder wrote:
How could Browder possibly think that removing risk from strategic decisions is exciting or good game design?
Mothership core = safe fast expo, safe tech, safe harass with NO RISK! Woohoo!
It's not worth it man. Just don't try to think what that man is thinking himself. He doesn't want the same game we want. He wants this "sit back and build up your army and then go and attack with it" so everyone can play it without any effort really. WoL is passive and kinda boring enough already, nothing in I've seen in HotS will change that so far. Just look how he wants mech to be played...
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On August 14 2012 12:50 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:49 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 14 2012 12:44 johnny123 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:56 Shiori wrote:On August 14 2012 10:55 trifecta wrote:On August 14 2012 10:53 ntssauce wrote:On August 14 2012 10:51 QTIP. wrote:
Holy shit, Protoss looks awful!
Granted the Protoss player played awful. But if Play HOTS means make Stargate units, that is just... lol. the tempest seems interesting... you can lay siege to a terran/zerg like terran does in TvT.... just camp with your army under the tempest and slowly pull the opp appart :D! so now toss has their broodlord It does the DPS of a Roach, costs 300/300/6, and takes 75 seconds to build. Wouldn't get your hopes up. I am correcting this for you, 37.5 seconds to build because the chronoboost will be unlimited. First of all, chrono does not half the time... Secondly, chrono is meant to compete with Mules+Inject larva. So if you use your chrono purely for Tempests, then you aren't using them for anything else. mothership core disagrees.
... I don't know what's the best way to convince you. How about the Liquidpedia? Chronoboost reduces 10s build time every 20s. (So basically 1 chronoboost = 0.6 probe). The best you can get is a 33% reduction in build time.
75s -> 50s
NOT
75s -> 37.5s
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On August 14 2012 12:52 stormchaser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:46 Vindicare605 wrote:
All I have to say to the vast majority of posters in this thread is.
WAIT FOR FUCKING BETA AND SHUT UP IN THE MEANTIME.
Why..? The whole point is to give feedback, do you really want a unit that can be shift-clicked to block every mineral patch you have and require 0 multi-tasking? Honestly, the core design of that unit in particular is actually really bad, I don't care what state the game is in. If the oracle makes it to beta who knows if it'll be taken out.
This thread is not really filled with feedback. It is more like a mob, which has been building up over time changing "A-move, A-A-move, A-move" threatening against any unit that is created for terran. Then they lynch the widow mine, not because its an a move unit, but because it associates with the a-move units. And then they kill the ghost, because he let himself be change in HotS, so he might as well be an A-move unit. Then the reaper, because he is one of them too.
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On August 14 2012 12:53 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:47 0neder wrote:
How could Browder possibly think that removing risk from strategic decisions is exciting or good game design?
Mothership core = safe fast expo, safe tech, safe harass with NO RISK! Woohoo! It's not worth it man. Just don't try to think what that man is thinking himself. He doesn't want the same game we want. He wants this "sit back and build up your army and then go and attack with it" so everyone can play it without any effort really. WoL is passive and kinda boring enough already, nothing in I've seen in HotS will change that so far. Just look how he wants mech to be played...
Somehow I have a feeling that in PvT, it would be just about how Protoss can kill Terran before the Terran maxes out 200/200 on warhounds and hellions. Hellions melt zealots and warhounds will just LOLOLOL all over every other Protoss unit.
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On August 14 2012 12:52 stormchaser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:46 Vindicare605 wrote:
All I have to say to the vast majority of posters in this thread is.
WAIT FOR FUCKING BETA AND SHUT UP IN THE MEANTIME.
Why..? The whole point is to give feedback, do you really want a unit that can be shift-clicked to block every mineral patch you have and require 0 multi-tasking? Honestly, the core design of that unit in particular is actually really bad, I don't care what state the game is in. If the oracle makes it to beta who knows if it'll be taken out. This goes for the ridiculous range of the tempest or the 1a syndrome of the warhound. Some of this stuff seems fundamentally out of play, and lacks enjoyment compared to other options on the table.
Considering it costs 200 gas per, why not?
The Oracle is an expensive unit and comes out of Stargate tech which means any Protoss that goes for an early Oracle is drastically delaying either their upgrades, Twilight Council research or Robotics tech, and seeing as how the mineral shields can be destroyed in virtually no time if you actually leave combat units nearby the Oracle can be completely nullified with decent multitasking and awareness of your own.
Where the Oracle really shines is when it gets to late game beyond 4 or 5 bases, because then it's really difficult to keep an eye on all your outlying expansions which can be easily picked off with the Oracle but that's really no different than Warp Prism harass or Medivac drops are already, the difference is the damage isn't permanent but slightly easier to pull off.
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On August 14 2012 12:53 sevia wrote:
People freaking out about a silly showmatch meant to show off the new units to the bronze league crowd.
"Look at that horrible macro! Look at the zero multitasking! It's almost as if he's not even trying to play a serious high level game!"
It's funny.
no, it's sad because you're seeing units that, by design, cannot be used for micro or multitasking (with real risk/skill)
you're seeing garbage maps that discourage macro (which allows players with 'horrible macro' to be seen in the first place)
you're seeing an advertisement that honestly no one should find enjoyable, unless they're just dying to play command and conquer 64 right now and they can't find a copy
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On August 14 2012 12:56 PikaXchU wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:53 Gosi wrote:On August 14 2012 12:47 0neder wrote:
How could Browder possibly think that removing risk from strategic decisions is exciting or good game design?
Mothership core = safe fast expo, safe tech, safe harass with NO RISK! Woohoo! It's not worth it man. Just don't try to think what that man is thinking himself. He doesn't want the same game we want. He wants this "sit back and build up your army and then go and attack with it" so everyone can play it without any effort really. WoL is passive and kinda boring enough already, nothing in I've seen in HotS will change that so far. Just look how he wants mech to be played... Somehow I have a feeling that in PvT, it would be just about how Protoss can kill Terran before the Terran maxes out 200/200 on warhounds and hellions. Hellions melt zealots and warhounds will just LOLOLOL all over every other Protoss unit.
Woah, it's as though the roles in SC2 PvT are reversed. Heck, it even vaguely sounds like BW PvT.
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On August 14 2012 12:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:50 johnny123 wrote:On August 14 2012 12:49 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 14 2012 12:44 johnny123 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:56 Shiori wrote:On August 14 2012 10:55 trifecta wrote:On August 14 2012 10:53 ntssauce wrote:On August 14 2012 10:51 QTIP. wrote:
Holy shit, Protoss looks awful!
Granted the Protoss player played awful. But if Play HOTS means make Stargate units, that is just... lol. the tempest seems interesting... you can lay siege to a terran/zerg like terran does in TvT.... just camp with your army under the tempest and slowly pull the opp appart :D! so now toss has their broodlord It does the DPS of a Roach, costs 300/300/6, and takes 75 seconds to build. Wouldn't get your hopes up. I am correcting this for you, 37.5 seconds to build because the chronoboost will be unlimited. First of all, chrono does not half the time... Secondly, chrono is meant to compete with Mules+Inject larva. So if you use your chrono purely for Tempests, then you aren't using them for anything else. mothership core disagrees. ... I don't know what's the best way to convince you. How about the Liquidpedia? Chronoboost reduces 10s build time every 20s. (So basically 1 chronoboost = 0.6 probe). The best you can get is a 33% reduction in build time. 75s -> 50s NOT 75s -> 37.5s
how else to convince you ? you seem stupid.
God ..
as i said, the chronoboost will be unlimited because mothership core grants energy recharge .its low enough cooldown that it can permanently give a nexus unlimited energy to chronoboost.
With unlimited energy to chronoboost, production is increased 50%. Which means 1/2 the time to build presuming you chrono it non stop. Your arguement is that you still think its wings of liberity and you are limited to limited amount of chronoboosts. I am saying that is not the case, mothership core disagrees. Now stop trying to prove something. You are wrong.
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On August 14 2012 12:57 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:56 PikaXchU wrote:On August 14 2012 12:53 Gosi wrote:On August 14 2012 12:47 0neder wrote:
How could Browder possibly think that removing risk from strategic decisions is exciting or good game design?
Mothership core = safe fast expo, safe tech, safe harass with NO RISK! Woohoo! It's not worth it man. Just don't try to think what that man is thinking himself. He doesn't want the same game we want. He wants this "sit back and build up your army and then go and attack with it" so everyone can play it without any effort really. WoL is passive and kinda boring enough already, nothing in I've seen in HotS will change that so far. Just look how he wants mech to be played... Somehow I have a feeling that in PvT, it would be just about how Protoss can kill Terran before the Terran maxes out 200/200 on warhounds and hellions. Hellions melt zealots and warhounds will just LOLOLOL all over every other Protoss unit. Woah, it's as though the roles in SC2 PvT are reversed. Heck, it even vaguely sounds like BW PvT.
Shhhhhh, don't say positive things about the terran units. They will find you and kidnap your dog until you promise to post hateful things about the terran units on the forums.
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You get 50% more production rate, not 50% less production time (BIG difference). Percentages mean different things depending on which direction you are going.
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On August 14 2012 12:42 Belha wrote:
Agree with the "making easier terran instead of making harder for the other races" statement. Right now the b-hellioin+warhound combination can take appart most ground P army with pure 1a, plus hellion harass potential. I agree that T needs a lategame buff, but i'm pretty sure that is not the way.
Sort of appears that way. Mech was already pretty strong in TvP, but the issue was that hellions didn't hold a line between zealots and tanks for long enough. Battle hellions by themselves almost alone could potentially help mech be viable in the highest levels of TvP.
I don't get the warhound. It fills like it feels the niche of needing a faster, energyless, attack-move unit which gets mech upgrades. Spoiler: it's not a niche. It's simply a less expensive, faster, energyless Thor that doesn't shoot up. I'm concerned I'll miss this unit called a Thor =(
And yeah, agree with the overall statement of the theme. I wish they made more units which can demonstrate a high level of skill. I still think the Oracle, Viper and Mothership Core are in the right direction. Everything for terran though I'm not terribly interested in. Who knows though, I'm looking forward to being surprised, but I just don't want to see anymore "simple units" (Collosus) or useless units (Hydras). Give me more complexity!
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On August 14 2012 12:58 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 14 2012 12:50 johnny123 wrote:On August 14 2012 12:49 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 14 2012 12:44 johnny123 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:56 Shiori wrote:On August 14 2012 10:55 trifecta wrote:On August 14 2012 10:53 ntssauce wrote:On August 14 2012 10:51 QTIP. wrote:
Holy shit, Protoss looks awful!
Granted the Protoss player played awful. But if Play HOTS means make Stargate units, that is just... lol. the tempest seems interesting... you can lay siege to a terran/zerg like terran does in TvT.... just camp with your army under the tempest and slowly pull the opp appart :D! so now toss has their broodlord It does the DPS of a Roach, costs 300/300/6, and takes 75 seconds to build. Wouldn't get your hopes up. I am correcting this for you, 37.5 seconds to build because the chronoboost will be unlimited. First of all, chrono does not half the time... Secondly, chrono is meant to compete with Mules+Inject larva. So if you use your chrono purely for Tempests, then you aren't using them for anything else. mothership core disagrees. ... I don't know what's the best way to convince you. How about the Liquidpedia? Chronoboost reduces 10s build time every 20s. (So basically 1 chronoboost = 0.6 probe). The best you can get is a 33% reduction in build time. 75s -> 50s NOT 75s -> 37.5s how else to convince you ? you seem stupid. God .. as i said, the chronoboost will be unlimited because mothership core grants energy recharge .its low enough cooldown that it can permanently give a nexus unlimited energy to chronoboost. With unlimited energy to chronoboost, production is increased 50%. Which means 1/2 the time to build presuming you chrono it non stop. Your arguement is that you still think its wings of liberity and you are limited to limited amount of chronoboosts. I am saying that is not the case, mothership core disagrees. Now stop trying to prove something. You are wrong.
Can someone help this guy out 
He still thinks that increasing production by 50% is equivalent to doubling production
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On August 14 2012 12:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:57 eviltomahawk wrote:On August 14 2012 12:56 PikaXchU wrote:On August 14 2012 12:53 Gosi wrote:On August 14 2012 12:47 0neder wrote:
How could Browder possibly think that removing risk from strategic decisions is exciting or good game design?
Mothership core = safe fast expo, safe tech, safe harass with NO RISK! Woohoo! It's not worth it man. Just don't try to think what that man is thinking himself. He doesn't want the same game we want. He wants this "sit back and build up your army and then go and attack with it" so everyone can play it without any effort really. WoL is passive and kinda boring enough already, nothing in I've seen in HotS will change that so far. Just look how he wants mech to be played... Somehow I have a feeling that in PvT, it would be just about how Protoss can kill Terran before the Terran maxes out 200/200 on warhounds and hellions. Hellions melt zealots and warhounds will just LOLOLOL all over every other Protoss unit. Woah, it's as though the roles in SC2 PvT are reversed. Heck, it even vaguely sounds like BW PvT. Shhhhhh, don't say positive things about the terran units. They will find you and kidnap your dog until you promise to post hateful things about the terran units on the forums.
PvT in bw is the 1a2a3a matchp.. it's not a positive comparison
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EPT
