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On August 09 2012 06:38 ilbh wrote:
the creep nerf is ridiculous.
these guys from Blizzard are watching 2 months old VODs to assume the game is not balanced at the highest level. seriously, just watch the last 2 weeks of korean pro TvZ and don't fu***** nerf zerg.
Did you bother reading the Blizzard post? The part referring to why they are making the changes? And who they are targeting?
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On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against.
i mean...you just run away =P
emp and stuff is hard to micro against, but the HSM speed is really quite low, you have plenty of time to dodge the projectile (except capital ships lol)
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On August 09 2012 07:06 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 06:59 Jono7272 wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? That, and the energy cost.. It's a buff! Take it! Hopefully this will encourage more use of ravens, giving Blizzard more gameplay to be able to diagnose any other problems.
Fig this doesn't address the most important issues so its value is in question.
1) Ravens still cannot cast whilst being fungaled
2) Fungal outranges HSM
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i dont think this change is meant to make the raven much better in the matchup but rather giving the terrans an innitiative to start using it and see how good it really is
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Finally they nerfed creep it is way too good atm but the raven needs more buffs if it's ever going to be used. Range, cost and damage for hsm is awful.
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On August 09 2012 07:06 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against. So its easier to micro against a spell which has no cast animation or projectile and prevents movements?
Yes, it requires + Show Spoiler +
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On August 09 2012 07:08 CeliosB wrote:
i dont think this change is meant to make the raven much better in the matchup but rather giving the terrans an innitiative to start using it and see how good it really is
Yeah I'm sure Terrans have just been saving the clear Ace in their hand for all these months....
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Just tried the ravens out. My goodness are they ever fast. I can see more pros using them now. This will especially make bomber happy!
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On August 09 2012 07:08 n3mo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against. i mean...you just run away =P emp and stuff is hard to micro against, but the HSM speed is really quite low, you have plenty of time to dodge the projectile (except capital ships lol)
Yeah I don't think HSM is a spell where micro really matters. I mean, yeah, you could screw up and run a bunch of speedlings or mutas into it, but there's basically two types of units:
1) units that can't escape HSM (broodlords, etc). No micro will save these units ;_;
2) units that CAN escape HSM (lings, mutas, corruptors). You can just run the army away.
now, if you have a mix of 1) and 2), things are crazy and need micro, but honestly I think Snipe and EMP are harder to micro against than HSM-- there's no chance to recover if they go off.
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On August 09 2012 07:10 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against. Micro against fungal.
Fungal also outranges HSM, so that's nice too
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On August 09 2012 07:10 KonohaFlash wrote:
Just tried the ravens out. My goodness are they ever fast. I can see more pros using them now. This will especially make bomber happy!
Pros already use them. The core problem late game has never been that Terrans weren't using/trying them or their speed. The two core problems have always been:
a) your ravens get fungalled making them a paper weight because HSM range is not long enough to trade with anything when fungalled. Notice this is the most prevalent situation where ravens end up not being worth anything, and speed is irrelevant due to a snare effect.
b) you "made ravens" and you simply die or are not able to put them to use before any are able to accumulate the steep energy requirement of 125 energy for a HSM.
Speed addresses neither of those problems, but it's something (i guess).
Either way, the main thing to take from this is that blizzard has finally acknowledged that: yes, there is indeed a problem with the match-up and they are going to fix it finally.
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On August 09 2012 07:12 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:10 Scrubwave wrote:On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against. Micro against fungal. Fungal also outranges HSM, so that's nice too
Plus the spell is instant which is quite useful as well 
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On August 09 2012 07:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:08 n3mo wrote:On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against. i mean...you just run away =P emp and stuff is hard to micro against, but the HSM speed is really quite low, you have plenty of time to dodge the projectile (except capital ships lol) Yeah I don't think HSM is a spell where micro really matters. I mean, yeah, you could screw up and run a bunch of speedlings or mutas into it, but there's basically two types of units: 1) units that can't escape HSM (broodlords, etc). No micro will save these units ;_; 2) units that CAN escape HSM (lings, mutas, corruptors). You can just run the army away. now, if you have a mix of 1) and 2), things are crazy and need micro, but honestly I think Snipe and EMP are harder to micro against than HSM-- there's no chance to recover if they go off.
Ravens cannot cast while fungaled. and they usually die before they cast, while getting to range 6. Yes, HSM is really strong, when it hits without costing you a raven 100% of the time. Energy cost is fine, it's only there to give you a sort of cooldown.
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After testing,
I found maybe the creep range should be 9.
8 may be an over-nerf.
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On August 09 2012 07:15 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:12 zmansman17 wrote:On August 09 2012 07:10 Scrubwave wrote:On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against. Micro against fungal. Fungal also outranges HSM, so that's nice too Plus the spell is instant which is quite useful as well
True and they can even burrow with invisibility and move away after!
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On August 09 2012 07:16 larse wrote:
After testing,
I found maybe the creep range should be 9.
8 may be an over-nerf.
Not used to be nerfed zergs?
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On August 09 2012 07:01 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 06:57 Thrombozyt wrote:
Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors
Yep, you have really understood the problem with the raven..... NOT! All the used damaging abilities have a casting range of 9. That means every spell except HSM. Now take a wild guess, why HSM is NOT used as much? HSM is also the hardest spell to micro against.
Wat
It's the easiest, by far. Fungal and snipe can't be dodged, EMP is very difficult to avoid, storm damage can be mitigated some if you move fast enough, etc.
You can avoid any and all HSM damage by literally right clicking away from it on your minimap if your unit is fast enough, and splitting your units even after HSM is cast is still an option.
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EPT
