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On July 17 2012 01:09 Digamma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:07 Cubu wrote:On July 17 2012 01:06 Prox wrote:On July 17 2012 01:03 Cubu wrote:
Wow if naama doesn't do anything about this, i will have no respect for him. I remember a while back, select was doing this and the community raised concerns about it and in he admitted his mistake and stopped leveling other people's accounts for money. I think what you mean is: Wow if this thread doesn't shape up, i will have no respect for all the people accusing Naama without solid proof for no apparent reason. Read the OP please. same hotkeys is not solid proof. and i think your respect doesnt feed "naama" if it is him.
The hotkey graphs prove beyond s reasonable doubt that it's Naama. Sc2gears hotkey graphs are like fingerprints for sc2 players. The odds that any two Terran players use the same hotkeys for 1-0 AND assign and tap those hotkeys in PRECISELY the same pattern are very, very low. Load up a couple random Terran pros' replays in sc2gears and see how different they are. Moreover, load up several replays of the same player and see how SIMILAR they are. I actually wonder if someone could develop a plug-in for sc2gears that would compare the hotkey graphs of a replay against a database of pros' hotkey graphs to identify every smurf account on the ladder lol.
I would like to respond to the many counterarguments that have come up in this thread and will do so when I get home from work, and probably update the OP.
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On July 17 2012 02:05 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:45 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote:
To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon?
And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former. Because nobody cares about your ladder rank except for yourself. Not true, a lot of people look at ladder rank as a measure of ability. How many times have people said 'X caster sucks, they're only in Y league'?
And when are they ever taken seriously? It's likely the same people arguing that GM earns you sponsors.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant.
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I think you need more evidence than this to accuse Naama of anything. I hate this stupid witch hunt stuff which is what this has likely turned into by oage 16.
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On July 17 2012 02:17 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:09 Digamma wrote:On July 17 2012 01:07 Cubu wrote:On July 17 2012 01:06 Prox wrote:On July 17 2012 01:03 Cubu wrote:
Wow if naama doesn't do anything about this, i will have no respect for him. I remember a while back, select was doing this and the community raised concerns about it and in he admitted his mistake and stopped leveling other people's accounts for money. I think what you mean is: Wow if this thread doesn't shape up, i will have no respect for all the people accusing Naama without solid proof for no apparent reason. Read the OP please. same hotkeys is not solid proof. and i think your respect doesnt feed "naama" if it is him. The hotkey graphs prove beyond s reasonable doubt that it's Naama. Sc2gears hotkey graphs are like fingerprints for sc2 players. The odds that any two Terran players use the same hotkeys for 1-0 AND assign and tap those hotkeys in PRECISELY the same pattern are very, very low. Load up a couple random Terran pros' replays in sc2gears and see how different they are. Moreover, load up several replays of the same player and see how SIMILAR they are. I actually wonder if someone could develop a plug-in for sc2gears that would compare the hotkey graphs of a replay against a database of pros' hotkey graphs to identify every smurf account on the ladder lol. I would like to respond to the many counterarguments that have come up in this thread and will do so when I get home from work, and probably update the OP.
The odds that one person does anything in the exact same pattern are low and with enough terrans out there it is just as likely to me that it is not Naama. Find more proof or stop trying to tarnish another person's life. This is his life people are messing with.
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On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote:
To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon?
And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former.
because.... you're comparing SAT's with a game ladder.
maybe if you said like OSL prims or something... then *maybe*
but not game ladder -_-
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Well it is the start of a new week, I guess we were due for another witchhunt soon enough. This is kinda silly to me, leveling accounts doesn't mean that person is going into a tourny and win it, they gain nothing from ladder then the ability to say to their friends, they are high masters etc.
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Haven't pros used each others accounts to practice on for quite some time? I don't think this is big problem. Most pros care about tournaments more than ladder anyway and just use it as practice. To everyone else it's just a game to get better. Even if it is part of the EULA, I don't think Blizzard cares much.
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On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant.
And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile.
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I feel a thread is warranted and productive because it brings to light a potentially harmful practice and enables the community to hold accountable those engaging in the practice.
Here we go again..
The only ones we need to police is ourselves. Being a fan of something does not convey you with any rights or moral high ground. Jesus. Every week >< It's ladder. It means nothing.
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Seems the overwhelming response is that it doesn't matter, and i have to agree. In fact, it could be really helpful to people who's skill level is higher than their account, but don't have time enough to play and accrue points >800 for promotions.
It's just a victimless crime. Struggling semi-pro gamers have to get into GM on their own, and if they can't just because a couple of actually good progamers level additional accounts, I doubt they'll ever be successful enough to sustain themselves unless they create a persona that the community enjoys instead of relying on skill. And if that's the case, it doesn't matter if you're in GM too much.
It also only seems that accounts leveled into GM are being targeted here. I haven't seen any posts yet with arguments against accounts getting leveled into masters, which is kinda interesting.
Also for the SAT analogy person, people have mostly told you by now that that analogy isn't very good, but just to help out, everyone can score perfects on the SAT, whereas there are only 200 spots in GM. SATs isn't an accurate measurement, or even estimation, of how well you will do in your academic/professional career, and most good universities have enough money to place anyone they want on scholarship.
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1. You cant stop them from doing it, so it doesnt matter how mad you get and how many threads you make.
2. Who gives a shit? If the biggest idiot in the world wants to waste money to get high masters or GM, let them. Let them waste their money, hopefully they dont eat that day or some shit because they dont have any more money because they think being top 8 masters actually means something.
3. This leveling service shit isnt a problem; it is literally insignificant to the game and the community, and makes no positive OR negative impact on anything at all.
One of the best ways to make money in this world is to play off the stupidity of other people. Make them think they need something that they absolutely do not need. Happens all the time in the tech industry.
For example, You get a pop up that says "you have been infected! click here to scan!" and then some idiot clicks it, gets infected, and then gets thrown to a website to buy software that gets rid of the virus, oh btw the ones that sold the software to you are the ones that infected you in the first place.
If for some reason this does actually bother you, I urge those people to troll and flame the fuck out of the "pro's" that advertise their 'leveling service', though. Make them feel unwanted.
If it's annoying when they spam that shit in sc2 bnet chat channels, just call them fucking retarded and then put them on ignore. You accomplish 2 things: you make them feel dumb, and then you get rid of the spam. It's like a win-win.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile.
I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time.
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On July 17 2012 02:35 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile. I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time.
You haven't played SC2 recently? It's an achievement for reaching grandmaster. Theres different ones for each level of GM you reach. On your SC2 profile you can organize achievements to display, where subsequently these players are going to plant the shiny orange badge right on the front so it's the first thing everyone sees when they look at their profile.
All you have to do is attain grandmaster. You have now forever earned your grandmaster badge to win every chat debate because you're grandmaster and hes gold and your orange colored achievement is superior to his orange colored achievement. Getting to sit in GM for a few weeks is cool, maybe get to fight some pros, but this is what they're usually after. There are similar achievements for every league. Account leveling shouldn't be a reason to remove them but I cant stand them in general -- and I'm an achievement whore.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 17 2012 02:39 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:35 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile. I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time. You don't play SC2? It's an achievement for reaching grandmaster. Theres different ones for each level of GM you reach. On your SC2 profile you can organize achievements to display, where subsequently these players are going to plant the shiny orange badge right on the front so it's the first thing everyone sees when they look at their profile. All you have to do is attain grandmaster. You have now forever earned your grandmaster badge to win every chat debate because you're grandmaster and hes gold and your orange colored achievement is superior to his orange colored achievement. Getting to sit in GM for a few weeks is cool, maybe get to fight some pros, but this is what they're usually after. There are similar achievements for every league. Account leveling shouldn't be a reason to remove them but I cant stand them in general -- and I'm an achievement whore.
I play Sc2 but I haven't gotten into GM before, so I haven't gotten that achivement ;_;
I also don't typically look at dude's profiles so I guess I never noticed it.
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On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does.
Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;.
On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things.
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On July 17 2012 02:43 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:39 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:35 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile. I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time. You don't play SC2? It's an achievement for reaching grandmaster. Theres different ones for each level of GM you reach. On your SC2 profile you can organize achievements to display, where subsequently these players are going to plant the shiny orange badge right on the front so it's the first thing everyone sees when they look at their profile. All you have to do is attain grandmaster. You have now forever earned your grandmaster badge to win every chat debate because you're grandmaster and hes gold and your orange colored achievement is superior to his orange colored achievement. Getting to sit in GM for a few weeks is cool, maybe get to fight some pros, but this is what they're usually after. There are similar achievements for every league. Account leveling shouldn't be a reason to remove them but I cant stand them in general -- and I'm an achievement whore. I play Sc2 but I haven't gotten into GM before, so I haven't gotten that achivement ;_; I also don't typically look at dude's profiles so I guess I never noticed it.
Eh, theres an achievement for every single league, bronze through GM, both 1v1 and team. It was added semi-recently though. Sorry for assuming. T-T
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Wow this is sad. What is sad is that people care so much about ladder points that:
1) They'll pay for them.
2) They'll make hate thread pages on TL because they think someone else got THEIR ladder points.
Notice the real players at the top of the ladder aren't whining about this. To them GM is a joke. As it should be to us all.
Get better at the game and stop blaming others for your losses.
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On July 17 2012 02:39 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:35 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile. I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time. You don't play SC2? It's an achievement for reaching grandmaster. Theres different ones for each level of GM you reach. On your SC2 profile you can organize achievements to display, where subsequently these players are going to plant the shiny orange badge right on the front so it's the first thing everyone sees when they look at their profile. All you have to do is attain grandmaster. You have now forever earned your grandmaster badge to win every chat debate because you're grandmaster and hes gold and your orange colored achievement is superior to his orange colored achievement. Getting to sit in GM for a few weeks is cool, maybe get to fight some pros, but this is what they're usually after. There are similar achievements for every league. Account leveling shouldn't be a reason to remove them but I cant stand them in general -- and I'm an achievement whore.
Yeah because......being GM ....means something to everyone on the internet. Everyone cares about your achievement 'gallery'. And...well..
God damnit I cant even troll this post lol. It's just so dumb. Congrats to you sir. It is an achievement to make an untrollable post because of how dumb it is lol.
User was warned for this post
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On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things.
Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm.
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