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Like plenty have said already, there are tons of smurfs in GM. It's not a recognition of the top 200, probably more like top 120~150; that's just part of the struggle to get into GM. There are always going to be people better than you getting in with multiple accounts. And if someone pays for coaching just because the coach is GM, then they're just stupid. It's their fault for not looking into the guy. As for hacking, that's an issue that needs to be taken care of separately. Your claim that the hacking communities charge as a middle-man for these transactions seems completely unfounded.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm.
But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does!
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On July 16 2012 16:54 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:50 Megaliskuu wrote:
Don't see how this is a big deal at all, let the morons get their account leveled, most pros arent paid very well..they need to make money somehow right? If they can't make enough money doing legitimate stuff like streaming/winning/salary/coaching, then maybe they should consider a different career. It ruins the integrity of the ladder. Any pro that would do this would lose my support.
There is no such thing as integrity of ladder. Every 2nd game you're going to get called a nigger retard faggot. Hackers, streamcheaters, and kids that spam EZ EZ EZ.
You can't lower the integrity of something that has none.
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On July 17 2012 02:50 ishyishy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:39 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:35 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile. I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time. You don't play SC2? It's an achievement for reaching grandmaster. Theres different ones for each level of GM you reach. On your SC2 profile you can organize achievements to display, where subsequently these players are going to plant the shiny orange badge right on the front so it's the first thing everyone sees when they look at their profile. All you have to do is attain grandmaster. You have now forever earned your grandmaster badge to win every chat debate because you're grandmaster and hes gold and your orange colored achievement is superior to his orange colored achievement. Getting to sit in GM for a few weeks is cool, maybe get to fight some pros, but this is what they're usually after. There are similar achievements for every league. Account leveling shouldn't be a reason to remove them but I cant stand them in general -- and I'm an achievement whore. Yeah because......being GM ....means something to everyone on the internet. Everyone cares about your achievement 'gallery'. And...well.. God damnit I cant even troll this post lol. It's just so dumb. Congrats to you sir. It is an achievement to make an untrollable post because of how dumb it is lol.
You can start by reading it and understand I'm mocking the persona I described.
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On July 17 2012 02:23 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:17 Doodsmack wrote:On July 17 2012 01:09 Digamma wrote:On July 17 2012 01:07 Cubu wrote:On July 17 2012 01:06 Prox wrote:On July 17 2012 01:03 Cubu wrote:
Wow if naama doesn't do anything about this, i will have no respect for him. I remember a while back, select was doing this and the community raised concerns about it and in he admitted his mistake and stopped leveling other people's accounts for money. I think what you mean is: Wow if this thread doesn't shape up, i will have no respect for all the people accusing Naama without solid proof for no apparent reason. Read the OP please. same hotkeys is not solid proof. and i think your respect doesnt feed "naama" if it is him. The hotkey graphs prove beyond s reasonable doubt that it's Naama. Sc2gears hotkey graphs are like fingerprints for sc2 players. The odds that any two Terran players use the same hotkeys for 1-0 AND assign and tap those hotkeys in PRECISELY the same pattern are very, very low. Load up a couple random Terran pros' replays in sc2gears and see how different they are. Moreover, load up several replays of the same player and see how SIMILAR they are. I actually wonder if someone could develop a plug-in for sc2gears that would compare the hotkey graphs of a replay against a database of pros' hotkey graphs to identify every smurf account on the ladder lol. I would like to respond to the many counterarguments that have come up in this thread and will do so when I get home from work, and probably update the OP. The odds that one person does anything in the exact same pattern are low and with enough terrans out there it is just as likely to me that it is not Naama. Find more proof or stop trying to tarnish another person's life. This is his life people are messing with.
I don't think you tested out any replays in sc2gears like I suggested. Otherwise you would know just how low the odds are.
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On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does!
That is a another topic and should be discussed here I think. I have to say I misunderstood you're post and thought you were arguing for something else.
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On July 17 2012 02:50 ishyishy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:39 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:35 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:26 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 02:20 Blazinghand wrote:
You know, if it was just people getting levelled into Master, maybe it'd be okay, just because you can get demoted pretty easily so these guys will all have like 500 bonus pool from not playing and will look like tools.
The issue though is they're getting boosted into GM, and there's two problems with that:
1) GM has a limited number of players
2) you can't get demoted out of GM easily
These two factors, the limited size and the low turnover, combine to make GM a farce. If, in addition to hackers and cheesers and random players who laddered at the right time of day when GM went live (anyone remember that?) there are inactive boosters or boosters with like gold MMR in GM, any meaning the GM icon had will fade away.
I don't think reasonably you can stop people from doing this boosting. There's no easy way to regulate it, assuming it's not streamed, and certainly no way to regulate it without accidentally banned regular folk. The only option, I think, is for Blizzard to change the way GM works. Make it so GM is an extra badge you get on top of your master badge, if, at the start of that day, your MMR was in the top 200-- not some weird independent league that only opens for a week or two each season. This way, everyone keeps their spot in their regular master leagues, and if your MMR tanks, you're out of GM like normal. People won't be boosting accounts into GM, and all it'll mean is "top 200 MMR", which, really, is all it should have ever meant. And remove the feats of strength they'll proudly display on their profile. I'm not really familiar with those, but if it's for winning a bunch of games, couldn't you just tank into bronze and spam games to get them? I think focussing on reforming GM is probably a better use of blizz time. You don't play SC2? It's an achievement for reaching grandmaster. Theres different ones for each level of GM you reach. On your SC2 profile you can organize achievements to display, where subsequently these players are going to plant the shiny orange badge right on the front so it's the first thing everyone sees when they look at their profile. All you have to do is attain grandmaster. You have now forever earned your grandmaster badge to win every chat debate because you're grandmaster and hes gold and your orange colored achievement is superior to his orange colored achievement. Getting to sit in GM for a few weeks is cool, maybe get to fight some pros, but this is what they're usually after. There are similar achievements for every league. Account leveling shouldn't be a reason to remove them but I cant stand them in general -- and I'm an achievement whore. Yeah because......being GM ....means something to everyone on the internet. Everyone cares about your achievement 'gallery'. And...well.. God damnit I cant even troll this post lol. It's just so dumb. Congrats to you sir. It is an achievement to make an untrollable post because of how dumb it is lol.
Actually to a lot of people it does, that makes you special in a way that a lot of players can't attain, its a thrill ride and an ego boost even if you yourself didn't do it. his post isn't dumb, its pretty practical for the normal person. If you are saying that in a peepmode custom game someone says that they are GM and basically says you are shit because you are measily plat, they pretty much get to ruin your experience. You can say that it doesn't matter, but to some people, having a good time and not getting attacked during any random multiplayer experience because they aren't "good enough" means a lot. Achievement whores exist in SC2 also, btw if you think its dumb, sure thats your choice, but you shouldn't call anyone dumb for it.
On a side note, when the "GM hackers are growing" thread came out people were up in arms about stopping the hackers and cheaters, but on this thread people don't seem to care that these guys are cheating their way by buying wins. Buying winning stuff is what supposedly made D3 not as fun, and I would assume would ruin a lot of people's experiences. It wastes peoples time playing against levelled scrubs, it wastes GM space from people who could use it, and it definitely destroys the ladder system by placing a pro vs a joe who wouldn't normally play them. Sure pros smurf all the time and yeah people drop to go port farming, but most of that (other than smurfing) is usually looked down upon as something that ruins other peoples experiences. Its a weird double standard that this thread is posing, and I wonder if its because its different people that the other thread.
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On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does!
Because ladder isn't anything like playing in a tournament, and because the MMR ceiling means that any decently high Masters player will make GM if they're active.
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Being top 16 GM gets you 'some' attention because people are constantly looking at the ladder ranks for those spots. Even though it doesnt really matter too much, some people like keeping track of the top 16 players on each server.
But let's just say someone actually that good levels your account to top 8 GM. How long do you think you are going to stay there? 1 Day? 2? Woooow. Lets visit magical chrismas land for a second, and imagine you getting a team offer from being on the top of the sc2 bnet ladder (lol). How long do you think your charade will last to the team? 1 Day? Hell, 3 hours? Woooow. Guess thats worth it, in magical chrismas land.
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I like this is out there. I can blame my loses on levelers lolz. Seriously just sad ppl would do this but I guess it's cool for players who make some paper. Oh well.
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Either you take the ladder seriously or you don't.
But you should acknowledge that some people do take ladder seriously and account leveling is cheating the system therefore they are upset.
If Blizzard wants the ladder to be taken seriously it should deal with this problem or else there will be fewer and fewer ladder players.
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Don't see how this affects coaching, it should be pretty obvious if the coach is good or bad during the first hour.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 17 2012 02:58 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does! Because ladder isn't anything like playing in a tournament, and because the MMR ceiling means that any decently high Masters player will make GM if they're active.
Would it be possible to remove the MMR ceiling? Maybe make GM, instead of its own league, a little badge you get next to your league icon if you're in the top 200 MMR in the past week? That way, you can't get boosted "into" GM and stay there by idling.
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On July 17 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:58 Shiori wrote:On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does! Because ladder isn't anything like playing in a tournament, and because the MMR ceiling means that any decently high Masters player will make GM if they're active. Would it be possible to remove the MMR ceiling? Maybe make GM, instead of its own league, a little badge you get next to your league icon if you're in the top 200 MMR in the past week? That way, you can't get boosted "into" GM and stay there by idling.
We had that when certain pros had almost no chance to find any match on ladder. The ceiling may be a problem, but removing it brings others.
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I read many posts in this thread, and a lot of them talk about how some pros aren't paid very much, so they need to resort to this... That's simply not a good reason. If I'd be paid 10$/hour, I'd consider myself pretty poor, but I would not go around and shoplift because I need more money. I would not steal a bank either. If some progamers aren't paid enough, then maybe they are not good enough yet or haven't proven themselves yet.
If they are not happy with this situation, nothing forces them to stay progamers forever, they can just quit and find a stable job. But if you go against the EULA just to make a bit more money, you deserve to be banned like anyone who goes against the EULA and the tournament organizers/teams can decide if they want to keep you or not. Progaming isn't an easy job, and it's not a job where you have guaranteed money; people need to stop acting like everyone should be able to live well from this.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 17 2012 03:05 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:58 Shiori wrote:On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does! Because ladder isn't anything like playing in a tournament, and because the MMR ceiling means that any decently high Masters player will make GM if they're active. Would it be possible to remove the MMR ceiling? Maybe make GM, instead of its own league, a little badge you get next to your league icon if you're in the top 200 MMR in the past week? That way, you can't get boosted "into" GM and stay there by idling. We had that when certain pros had almost no chance to find any match on ladder. The ceiling may be a problem, but removing it brings others.
Okay, well maybe you have after you "search" and then "expanded search" you have "uber-expanded search" which lets you reach back down through the clouds to do battle with mortals-- would something like that work?
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On July 17 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:58 Shiori wrote:On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does! Because ladder isn't anything like playing in a tournament, and because the MMR ceiling means that any decently high Masters player will make GM if they're active. Would it be possible to remove the MMR ceiling? Maybe make GM, instead of its own league, a little badge you get next to your league icon if you're in the top 200 MMR in the past week? That way, you can't get boosted "into" GM and stay there by idling.
The biggest problem with ladder is that it doesn't (completely) represent skill. Most of the VERY best pros are in the 100s in Korean ladder, and more than half the top 50 are barcodes and / or shared team accounts.
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so what?
none of your arguments are very strong or convincing. Less than 0.0000000001% do this (your thread is actually pretty good advertising for their cause). Also if someone is buying a coaching he should do his research first - and even if he didn't he should figure out after 1 hour thatf the coach sucks.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 17 2012 03:08 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:01 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:58 Shiori wrote:On July 17 2012 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On July 17 2012 02:50 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 17 2012 02:45 docvoc wrote:On July 16 2012 23:41 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:38 Daniel C wrote:On July 16 2012 23:35 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 16 2012 23:28 docvoc wrote:
I personally think the main thing is that this hurts the new up and coming pros, we are now just creating systems to allow players like col.Sasquatch to come about, players that need a bit of development in a big clan type scenario that could potentialliy be great and equalize the two scenes, doing this prevents the GM recognition and prevents new blood in the scene, other than that, this isn't much of an issue imo because idiots do stupid things and thats their prerogative, since when have we cared a ton about the terms of service, we have tons of mods on this site that are immensely helpful, and also break the terms of service. You can still be good even if this happens. That is kind of a stupid argument you gave. It's not. "You can still be good even if this happens." does not counter his argument. His argument ''this prevents up and coming players from being recognized'' . It's not like gm gives you any recognition winning tournaments does. Lets see here, I'm going to explain why you aren't thinking too far ahead on this one. When you win tournaments, you get lots of attention, now which tourneys give the most attention? Its the ones that teams send their players to, yes you can be a scarlet and run through one tourney and then be very quiet for a while by not winning too much, but players that want to be on teams and players that want to be recognized know that GM is a very attention grabbing place. By getting into GM you prove the point that you CAN get into GM given an equal chance. There are People like Blade5555 who are in GM in korea but aren't hugely active in big tournaments, and grab little attention other than the fact that they are GM, you see my point? They get attention from being good on the ladder circuit, not just the tourney circuit. Very few players can be ladder players and then do well in tourneys, they need practice partners and teams really give those much needed details for players to blossom. The point is that its not beneficial in any way, its not a dumb argument by any means at all, but thanks for supposedly countering my argument -_-;. On a seperate note, I know KaraNICOLE lol. I knew that he wasn't masters because he played on a team that I was on before it crashed and failed called sovereign gaming, I see him on from time to time, but the guys you are talking about are people that I am semi-familiar with. I never played against the guys, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did those things. Winning any tournament even a playhem gives you more attention then being gm. But see, maybe that's the problem here, isn't it? Maybe the fact that being GM is so discounted, due to hacks, boosting, smurfs, etc-- maybe that's WHY GM doesn't give attention, and maybe we should fix it so it does! Because ladder isn't anything like playing in a tournament, and because the MMR ceiling means that any decently high Masters player will make GM if they're active. Would it be possible to remove the MMR ceiling? Maybe make GM, instead of its own league, a little badge you get next to your league icon if you're in the top 200 MMR in the past week? That way, you can't get boosted "into" GM and stay there by idling. The biggest problem with ladder is that it doesn't (completely) represent skill. Most of the VERY best pros are in the 100s in Korean ladder, and more than half the top 50 are barcodes and / or shared team accounts.
Oh, hm, I hadn't thought about that. And of course, all those shared team accounts are technicaly smurfing/sharing/in violation of EULA as well, huh. ;_; what can we do?
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On July 17 2012 02:56 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:23 mrtomjones wrote:On July 17 2012 02:17 Doodsmack wrote:On July 17 2012 01:09 Digamma wrote:On July 17 2012 01:07 Cubu wrote:On July 17 2012 01:06 Prox wrote:On July 17 2012 01:03 Cubu wrote:
Wow if naama doesn't do anything about this, i will have no respect for him. I remember a while back, select was doing this and the community raised concerns about it and in he admitted his mistake and stopped leveling other people's accounts for money. I think what you mean is: Wow if this thread doesn't shape up, i will have no respect for all the people accusing Naama without solid proof for no apparent reason. Read the OP please. same hotkeys is not solid proof. and i think your respect doesnt feed "naama" if it is him. The hotkey graphs prove beyond s reasonable doubt that it's Naama. Sc2gears hotkey graphs are like fingerprints for sc2 players. The odds that any two Terran players use the same hotkeys for 1-0 AND assign and tap those hotkeys in PRECISELY the same pattern are very, very low. Load up a couple random Terran pros' replays in sc2gears and see how different they are. Moreover, load up several replays of the same player and see how SIMILAR they are. I actually wonder if someone could develop a plug-in for sc2gears that would compare the hotkey graphs of a replay against a database of pros' hotkey graphs to identify every smurf account on the ladder lol. I would like to respond to the many counterarguments that have come up in this thread and will do so when I get home from work, and probably update the OP. The odds that one person does anything in the exact same pattern are low and with enough terrans out there it is just as likely to me that it is not Naama. Find more proof or stop trying to tarnish another person's life. This is his life people are messing with. I don't think you tested out any replays in sc2gears like I suggested. Otherwise you would know just how low the odds are.
Or I simply don't like to ruin someones career or waste my time trying to analyse if it is the same playstyle and a hundred other things. Leave Naama alone! 
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EPT
