EPTKeSPA vs GSL players cross-match - Page 76
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On July 10 2012 08:34 ShadeR wrote: It doesn't bode well for SC2 at all if a group of players putting in at most 80% of their effort into SC2 in a relatively short period of time can edge out established players putting in 100%. These results continue to give credence to the claim that SC2 in it's current state will not allow skill to translate into victory as well as BW did. Skill disparity is asphyxiated by the games own mechanics. uhhh no. Just no. The players that played today were not good players. The GSL protoss has a 31% win rate in PvP. Do you somehow think that someone like Squirtle with a 73% win rate in that same match would have looked like that? Does the fact that one player is winning over 70% of his matches not somehow imply to you that skill is involved and not simple luck? Your comment is so ridiculous it isn't even funny. Any of the top SC2 players would have stomped those people on their average days. That Kespa Zerg got destroyed by a player who looked unsure in the final match. Kespa is still a good distance behind(Which they should be, I mean no insult) and it will be that way for awhile still. Their players will learn fast due to their obvious skill in a very similar game but this one result means nothing unless you want to try to say that Naama could win code S because he managed to beat MVP. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On July 10 2012 08:34 ShadeR wrote: It doesn't bode well for SC2 at all if a group of players putting in at most 80% of their effort into SC2 in a relatively short period of time can edge out established players putting in 100%. These results continue to give credence to the claim that SC2 in it's current state will not allow skill to translate into victory as well as BW did. Skill disparity is asphyxiated by the games own mechanics. as much as i like to bash on sc2 being a terrible game i'd attribute it to the stricter training regime of kespa teams and the fact that 90% of gsl code s players were b-teamers or worse in broodwar | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On July 10 2012 09:01 rauk wrote: as much as i like to bash on sc2 being a terrible game i'd attribute it to the stricter training regime of kespa teams and the fact that 90% of gsl code s players were b-teamers or worse in broodwar Or the fact that apparently* GSL threw their worst players at KeSPA. *Based on this thread. I don't personally have knowledge of the relative skill levels among GSL players. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On July 10 2012 09:07 Djabanete wrote: Or the fact that apparently* GSL threw their worst players at KeSPA. *Based on this thread. I don't personally have knowledge of the relative skill levels among GSL players. Well we don't know which Startale Protoss it was. Squirtle and Parting are both absolutely top tier players at the moment (probably both in the top 5 protoss in the world). Ace is probably top 20 protoss, but not top 10. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On July 10 2012 09:07 Djabanete wrote: Or the fact that apparently* GSL threw their worst players at KeSPA. *Based on this thread. I don't personally have knowledge of the relative skill levels among GSL players. Ace is the Protoss... he has a 31% win rate in PvP so in that aspect he is one of the worst. His other two matchups he is below 50% in but could maybe be considered averageish... so he is a below average player for sure either way. The Terran no one knows who he is.. there are really too many options for it to be guessed but Bomber who some people thought it might be was insulted that anyone thought it was him so it can be assumed and judged by the way he played that the person is not very good. He made a lot of bad choices and micro moves. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On July 10 2012 09:09 hzflank wrote: Well we don't know which Startale Protoss it was. Squirtle and Parting are both absolutely top tier players at the moment (probably both in the top 5 protoss in the world). Ace is probably top 20 protoss, but not top 10. It was not Parting or Squirtle. Ace has a playstyle much different from them and it definitely seemed like a consensus that it was him. Even Khaldor thought it was although he did not name a name to be polite. ELO has Ace barely in the top 30 if I remember right and although ELO is not a perfect system it is decent enough. Someone nowhere near the top is obviously nowhere near the top based on their results. | ||
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NotTaken
United States1 Post
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
On July 10 2012 08:34 ShadeR wrote: It doesn't bode well for SC2 at all if a group of players putting in at most 80% of their effort into SC2 in a relatively short period of time can edge out established players putting in 100%. These results continue to give credence to the claim that SC2 in it's current state will not allow skill to translate into victory as well as BW did. Skill disparity is asphyxiated by the games own mechanics. Holy balls, you could have started in Australia and ended up in France with the massive jump to conclusions you just made. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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emsy1984
Slovakia28 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:47 slappy wrote: wait... I was JUST told that all 3 possible candidates for Shy's opponent were code S this season, and the majority of the people posting are saying that it is most likely Ace (probably because he's the worst between the 3?) and that he is code A material... I can only guess at why this is the consensus of all the people who are in the dark. Yes, Shy is one of the better Kespa sc2 players. Woonjin was knocked out of PL post season early last time so they got some extra practice time in, and he wasn't really on their starting line up last season, but he isn't the top player on the team let alone the top Kespa player. It's comments like yours that are taking away from Shy's win. Give the man some props alright, my bad, was a bit harsh from me bur still, Ace was in code s only once and he dropped immediatelly in first round Did u see the match of sun vs cacia (i think he's spelled this way).... letting your mothership get neuro'd twice (almost thrice) in a single game is pretty bad... then cacia losing his whole broodlord army to a single void ray... the other PvZ on ohana where zerg had good idea of attacking but he was just suiciding his roaches 1 by 1 to an immortal defense... sry mate i can't call that a great play  ... but i'm really looking forward when they will drop BW and start practicing sc2 fulltime. I believe majority of them will get to at least code A level if they fully switch to sc2 and bring some fresh wind. But the way it is now, where they have to practice both, is just too much on them and sort of impossible to handle. The fact that Shy managed to impresses.... | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
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doffe
Sweden636 Posts
On July 10 2012 09:50 NoGasfOu wrote: At this rate, looks like current Code S players are going to return to their B-teamer status soon; and the beginning of the end of foreign scene 2.0 has just begun. I dont think we will see any of the Kespa players in Code S this year given that they are not seeded. They are good, Flashes TvZ at MLG impressed me alot but they are not that good. I would love to be wrong though, in any case we will simply have to wait and see! And the seeing will be awsome :D | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarCraft_2_Ready_Action:_Cross_Match Probably needs to be tabulated later with more weekly showmatches coming up. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On July 10 2012 10:00 doffe wrote: I dont think we will see any of the Kespa players in Code S this year given that they are not seeded. They are good, Flashes TvZ at MLG impressed me alot but they are not that good. I would love to be wrong though, in any case we will simply have to wait and see! And the seeing will be awsome :D Well, he did say soon, which is most likely wrong. Eventually though yes, we shall see the boss toss back on the bench >:D | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:46 emsy1984 wrote: I think anyone who watched PL today will agree with me when I say that the gameplay of players in PL (mby except flash) and gameplay of Shy were on way different level. To me it looks like kespa sent one of the best (if not the best) players while Ace is (let's say) a mediocre code A player. Obviously top players were scattered all around different other tournaments (hsc, ipl, ...) and obviously this is not necessarily a bad thing. As someone said before, it's a nice ego boost to kespa and i hope we'll see more non-anonymous ( = nonymous?) matches soon. Ace, Parting, and Squirtle are all good players. Ace hasn't had quite the results of his teammates, but his recent play has proven he is strong and could be in Code S soon. While Shy is a good protoss, he is not the best of the kespa players in SC2. Here are the records for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/2838_SKP12_Proleague_S2/player_stats If they wanted to intentionally stack the event it could have been EffOrt (best kespa player at SC2) vs FXO_JKS or TSL_Punisher (first timers to Code A). The zerg they put out for kespa didn't seem like any one of the best players. There are many kespa zergs who are really good at ZvP. | ||
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Depetrify
978 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On July 10 2012 10:05 oOOoOphidian wrote: Ace, Parting, and Squirtle are all good players. Ace hasn't had quite the results of his teammates, but his recent play has proven he is strong and could be in Code S soon. While Shy is a good protoss, he is not the best of the kespa players in SC2. Here are the records for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/2838_SKP12_Proleague_S2/player_stats If they wanted to intentionally stack the event it could have been EffOrt (best kespa player at SC2) vs FXO_JKS or TSL_Punisher (first timers to Code A). The zerg they put out for kespa didn't seem like any one of the best players. There are many kespa zergs who are really good at ZvP. And GOM would have countered with MC who would rofflestomp zerg like he usually does I think they tried to pick people they thought might make for a decent match on both ends. Neither side really wanted to be humiliated in this. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On July 10 2012 08:34 ShadeR wrote: It doesn't bode well for SC2 at all if a group of players putting in at most 80% of their effort into SC2 in a relatively short period of time can edge out established players putting in 100%. These results continue to give credence to the claim that SC2 in it's current state will not allow skill to translate into victory as well as BW did. Skill disparity is asphyxiated by the games own mechanics. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. IF anything is to be drawn from the results, it's that there IS a high skillcap. It shows that mechanics DO matter. | ||
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Roarer
Hong Kong124 Posts
On July 10 2012 08:34 ShadeR wrote: It doesn't bode well for SC2 at all if a group of players putting in at most 80% of their effort into SC2 in a relatively short period of time can edge out established players putting in 100%. These results continue to give credence to the claim that SC2 in it's current state will not allow skill to translate into victory as well as BW did. Skill disparity is asphyxiated by the games own mechanics. For your statement to be true, there has to be 2 assumptions : 1. effort from any players will yield the same amount of result as effort of anyone else. 2. Amount of time spent equals skill level. Assumption 1 is definitely wrong cause different people have different approach to the game, and it will lead to different level of success. Assumption 2 is wrong too because time can be spend inefficiently. Since both of these assumptions do not stand, your statement cannot be justified. | ||
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