This week Valve announced that they would be introducing a new feature that allows professional teams to have in-game logos and banners for tournaments (http://blog.dota2.com/2012/06/did-you-see-that-kill/). Already some in the esports community are praising this as an esports victory (http://esportsbusiness.com/valve-show-developers-how-to-support-esports-with-dota-2/).
Poll: Should SC2 have In-game Team Logos/Banners?
Yes (527)
87%
No (82)
13%
609 total votes
Your vote: Should SC2 have In-game Team Logos/Banners?
Im torn on this, on one hand team branding potentially offers tournament move revenue which allows them to provide more content free to the fans. However, I think of in-game advertisements as the slipperiest of slopes. I dont wanna see McDonald golden arches on my siege tank any time soon. So let me know what you guys think, is this a huge step forward for esports or more corporate invasion of our beloved past-time?
I think it would be great to see the team's logos being implemented into the game (e.g. as the decals surrounding your buildings), but it would be kinda hard to reach every team's satisfaction, because there are so many teams out there.
On June 25 2012 00:07 Archerofaiur wrote:I dont wanna see McDonald golden arches on my siege tank any time soon.
I think you sum up my problem with this best with that statement. I can see a lot of potential for this to be abused. It is a interesting concept, but what will happen with it on the fog of war and such? If this were to be implemented, I think that blizzard would have to make this well thought out.
Maybe decals... that would be fine. Also on the loading screen and maybe somewhere on the map where its not distasteful ( say instead of the "I Pistol" advertisement or what not )
On June 25 2012 00:08 NemesysTV wrote: Maybe allowing it as a decal or an icon of it on the loading screen would be nice
Excellent idea! Also, I think they could make your HUD on the bottom (or whatever you wanna call it) customizable, so that way teams would have an easier time making overlays.
As long as it is team logos and such, I am all for it. But, of course it would probably be exploited to a point where I will change my mind TT Anything that "helps" clan-support and similar stuff (making Starcraft 2 a bit less ghostly on the social side, meaning that you ladder, say gl hf and then don't really talk until you gg or gl hf'ing your next opponent) I whole-heartily support, and this could be a good step towards clan-support, even though it most likely will be bad in the end
On June 25 2012 00:15 Aterons_toss wrote: Maybe decals... that would be fine. Also on the loading screen and maybe somewhere on the map where its not distasteful ( say instead of the "I Pistol" advertisement or what not )
Ahahahahahahaha I'm pretty sure there's a Day9 Daily where he saw that and started laughing his ass off. I think it was on Metropolis or Metalopolis? hmm...
warcraft 3 always had banners from the tournament in them but lets be honest, there is NO chance of blizzard implementing it or allowing it in a way like dota2 or wc3
well there is nothing stopping map makers from putting in branding, GSL already do this. There are GSL decals on some of their maps, i'm sure i've seen them. Also MLG/GSL etc can have their logo's on the loading screen, MLG already do this for their versions of the maps.
I think allowing teams to have their logo as their decal would be cool, but allowing sponsors etc to have ads on the map.... no. We already have them showing on overlays and sponsor ad spots running between games... no more please, next we will be stopping the game every 3 minutes for a commercial like in handegg!!!
We need freaking clan support first! Banners would be great and decals on the units would be cool too for pro teams, but they haven't even cared enough to put support for making and managing clans in the game yet. Unless some tournament pays them money to add this feature, I don't think they will do it anytime before Legacy of the Void
I don't see why having the decals that are on units or around hatcheries etc couldn't be team logos - although maybe Blizz would have to manually give them to team members somehow so that there are no shenanigans...
I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
On June 25 2012 00:41 Virtue wrote: We need freaking clan support first! Banners would be great and decals on the units would be cool too for pro teams, but they haven't even cared enough to put support for making and managing clans in the game yet. Unless some tournament pays them money to add this feature, I don't think they will do it anytime before Legacy of the Void
Clan support is coming in HoTS
In the midst of all this great community news, we want to announce some of the exciting things we’re working on this year for StarCraft II. Here's a list of some of the features we are planning to release at or around the launch of Heart of the Swarm:
Multiplayer resume from replay Global Play Multilanguage support Clan/group system Unranked matchmaking Multiplayer replay viewing
With the decals being added to the game since beta I always wondered why this wasn't one of the first things they introduced, because showing clan tags on them would be THE obvius thing you can do with it...
You should edit the vote and add a 3rd option "In another way as suggested". I would love to see that you could have TeamLogos as your Playerlogo but not ingame (and I think blizzard wouldnt like it either )
They had this kind of in Dawn of War 1. Where you could give your units and buildings logos and decals. But it quite often ended in people painting swastikas all around the map. I don't think it is really useful and if then only with restricted access for few people...
In American Football they don't clutter the playing field with ads, they line the walls surrounding the field with them. For team representation they have a logo in the middle 50yrd line and the name "Giants" on each side in front of the goal lines. This is only apparent with the home team's playing field. SC2 has no home team playing field, unless you count your spawn as such. If team representation were to be implemented in SC it could have an icon in the middle of the map, but who's team gets to be the middle? And why?
The only thing I can find feasible would be to, like most others said, represent them on the loading screen. It doesn't interfere with the playing field and easily implemented.
Just read the post above me and yeah having team logos as your player icon or avatar whatever they call it would be a good idea. That way you can also represent your favorite team while playing. Maybe someone would try harder to beat an EG fan if they were a TL fan.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
Well. GSL already has GSL decals on say, Metropolis for example. Don't know if they're on ladder thou D:
I think it would a be a good idea if that could be implemented as like decals on units and like the symbols on the ground for a zerg and such. The flags might just be a little overkill but who knows im sure if they were put in with flags Blizzard could probably find ways to make it look natural though who knows. As people have said as long as it's teams only then yes it would be a great idea but if it started going to like McDonalds and Mountain Dew (Which I do love lol) then no it would be an absolutely horrible idea.
It's really hard to get this right...it must not be distracting and yet visible enough to make sense to put it. There would probably need to be strict guideliness in order to not make the game look like shit
SC2 already has logos/decals, why couldn't they just utilize those? Seems pretty simple, and people would actually notice them, unlike the current ones.
Yes. If the map was made by a member of said team.
Otherwise how would this even be possible? 30some logos on every map? Or several teams have their logos everywhere and no one else does? Not one person would like that at all. It would also ruin the aesthetic of the map.
Only makes sense if the map maker was from the team. Reminds me of Cloud Kingdom and GSL. Subtle signatures from map makers are cool. Blatant advertising all over a game map is beyond silly.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
like this? :D
I would love team logos on main buildings. I'm with you to not like ads.
On June 25 2012 02:10 baldgye wrote: I came across this in a ladder game on EU
I have no idea how he did it
It's a decal you unlock by being on Blizzcon or something.
well I guessed that much lol, but wasn't there a leak of team icons and tournament icons and things that supposidly you got from attending or winning tournaments?
They definitely should implement this idea. Just ban the users with offensive ones if they get through, and have a few people that have to approve this shit or something.
Valve has already initialized in-game advertising through Counter-Strike. I dont think this model of invading the game was profitable enough for them to force in-game advertisements into their new-er generation of games.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
like this? :D
I would love team logos on main buildings. I'm with you to not like ads.
You know, if a sponsor pays for an entire event I have no problem seeing that on the map.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
like this? :D
I would love team logos on main buildings. I'm with you to not like ads.
You know, if a sponsor pays for an entire event I have no problem seeing that on the map.
Yeah, this is totally acceptable until SC2 becomes a serious worldwide accepted sport. Once (if) SC2 becomes "mainstream", they can dial down that kind of stuff a bit.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
like this? :D
I would love team logos on main buildings. I'm with you to not like ads.
You know, if a sponsor pays for an entire event I have no problem seeing that on the map.
All we need now is "I hate you" writen in the fog of war in GSL games.
No. It will look god awful no matter how you do it. Even the beloved TL horse logo would look out of place on Nony's nexus, or TLO's hatch.
And we know the Pringles and Shinhan examples from BW. Just wait until we have DR. PEPPER plastered over the top of the next map pool for MLG. Then we'll get nothing but "Wah, this went too far." Sometimes I think the community agrees to stuff just so that they have a built in something to bitch about later.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
like this? :D
I would love team logos on main buildings. I'm with you to not like ads.
You know, if a sponsor pays for an entire event I have no problem seeing that on the map.
Yeah, this is totally acceptable until SC2 becomes a serious worldwide accepted sport. Once (if) SC2 becomes "mainstream", they can dial down that kind of stuff a bit.
I don't see any reason it should be toned down either. I mean, if you look at football there are ads all along the field, in the ice in the hockey rink. It is a bit weird that in e-sports, a business where it is constantly talked about how hard it is to attract sponsors, and where we are in total control of the arena, we do not have this yet. The amount of control we can exert over the arena is something the NHL can only really dream of, and we can be as adaptable that we could change sponsors on a game to game basis. There could probably even be dynamic areas or signs which alternate during a game, this is really an untapped goldmine.
On June 25 2012 02:28 lorkac wrote: I'm okay with NASCAR-ing up sc2 if it makes the sport bigger and more widespread. Golden arches and all.
Yeah making SC2 maps one big commercial is going to improve the sport without a doubt. We have to make sure the logos and golden arches obscure viewing too. We dont wanna see those SC2 units! We want to see more commercials about things we already know everything about!
I just hope most of the community doesnt have this attitude. SC2 isnt dying, jeez! Everyone gets way too giggity over how much money is being made. There was no reason to even bring this up. Its depressing to know people actually want this kinda thing.
I would say that yes, they should be shown in game, but more along the vein of what TotalBiscuit was suggesting. I.e. logos shown in overlays and stuff during tournaments.
I'd prefer just sticking to the method we have now. Putting stuff in the game will just get out of control and make things too distracting. The players need to be focusing on the game not the flashy logos who's sole purpose is to attract attention and the viewers already see sponsors in overlays/commercials/jerseys. I'd hate the day when leagues no longer put effort into creating sick graphic overlays and stop focusing cameras on the players since all representation is cluttered over the map anyway.
i think units should be a no-go but i don't mind seeing banners or ads on the ground or walls or something as long as they don't get too obnoxious
how it was done in that bw screenshot earlier is fine, or maybe they could have a squared off area on the map that rotates ads through it? think of it like a monitor or something embedded in a portion of the ground on the map that would flash different sponsors logos or whatever
In Warcraft 3 there where sponsor banners on the map. They were even ridiculously exposed on the most common creep spots. I have to say i did not mind at all. For me the beauty of starcraft 2 comes out of the strategy, the tension, the execution etc. I don not really care that much about how it actually looks. So for me even sponsor banners would be ok.
On June 25 2012 02:28 lorkac wrote: I'm okay with NASCAR-ing up sc2 if it makes the sport bigger and more widespread. Golden arches and all.
Yeah making SC2 maps one big commercial is going to improve the sport without a doubt. We have to make sure the logos and golden arches obscure viewing too. We dont wanna see those SC2 units! We want to see more commercials about things we already know everything about!
I just hope most of the community doesnt have this attitude. SC2 isnt dying, jeez! Everyone gets way too giggity over how much money is being made. There was no reason to even bring this up. Its depressing to know people actually want this kinda thing.
There are definitely way too much people who seem to forget what StarCraft 2 is all about. StarCraft 2 is about the fans and the players of StarCraft 2, it is not a pissing contest of how many sponsors the scene can get or how big the scene can get before it crashes. I don't understand why so many newcomers can't seem to remember that the last time there was a rush of "NASCAR-ing up" a game for the sole reason of making the "sport bigger and more widespread," the e-sports bubble burst.
We as a community should not be pushing growth for the sake of growth, we should be pushing for better content and better events for the fans and the players to the point that there is growth. Growth is a byproduct of what we do, not the end goal of what we want to achieve.
And while the banners seem cool and all, does the majority of people really think that banners should be focused on despite all the flaws of B.net 2.0? Really? VALVe can do cool stuff like that with DotA2 because they have already made a competent UI with sufficient features. B.net 2.0 is sorely lacking in both features and competency, we should definitely not be giving Blizzard the impression that we are satisfied with that and want to move on to more secondary features.
I agree banners are really cool, but in the end they are just a gimmick. I definitely prefer real substance over gimmicks.
On June 25 2012 02:36 Mauldo wrote: No. It will look god awful no matter how you do it. Even the beloved TL horse logo would look out of place on Nony's nexus, or TLO's hatch.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
Was about to vote no, but then thought about the decals present on buildings and some units anyway. I don't see why teams couldn't replace those generic decals with their team logo. It's tasteful and unobtrusive. Obviously banners and streamers don't fit SC2's sci-fi style at all, so a big no on that. GSL is doing it right already with the more subtle map features.
TB talked about this on Real Talk with JP. It's a very good idea and way to help the sponsors of teams/players feel as if they're brand is getting more eyeballs than otherwise. I'm not quite sure how they'd do it in game, but it'd be something they should look into.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
That. Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
IPL China
I do not understand the hypothetical phrasing in this thread. SC2 may not have team banners but it certainly has in game ads.
I think having ads in the overlays is more than enough. It will be shown throughout the entire game AND won`t be distracting on the map. No need to take it a step further with silly decals and shit on the map. Also having it on the loading screen is a good idea.
Also there is a lot of other stuff with more priority I`d like to see implemented rather than little team logos as decals.
On June 25 2012 01:00 Gosi wrote: I like it but I don't want it. At first it's just team logos, but after a while if possible we will see a tournament like MLG fill the map terrain with MLG, DR PEPPER, NOS and shit like that.
That. Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
IPL China
I do not understand the hypothetical phrasing in this thread. SC2 may not have team banners but it certainly has in game ads.
Exactly, even having GSL or whatever in the title, and even player names as the team is an in game sponsor.
I do agree though that this is potentially a slippery slope - a graphic here and there is fine, but big banners can easily distract the eye - and there's LOADs of distracting stuff going on anyway.
hi , i guess if they were implemented into the game , like in those dota screenshots you as a player , should really be able to remove them in the options. I mean. this is only inportant for the casters and you don't want to get distracted by it as a player! Like in Cs for example where you can deactivate Logos/Sprays in options !
Since Valve is competing with Blizzard I doubt they'll reuse an idea fetched by the competition... Sadly, I doubt we'll ever see something like this, but teams are already placing such logos on the maps anyway (note GSL for example) so it's not an insanely big issue, especially since Blizzard is already letting us use tournament maps in ladder pool.
If it's done in a tasteful way I'm all for it. Dont know how it should be implemented in an optimal way so we dont get people with huge cocks on their Command Centre.
On June 25 2012 04:19 Eatme wrote: If it's done in a tasteful way I'm all for it. Dont know how it should be implemented in an optimal way so we dont get people with huge cocks on their Command Centre.
Lol, I think it's mainly for tournament organizers : D imagine a spire.
On June 25 2012 02:17 Kuni wrote: Make an option to toggle it on/off, so tournaments etc. are able to use logos for sponsors etc. as they desire. EzPz
This.
Wasnt there a discussion about the MLG shirt? Because some tournament sponsors werent too happy with players showing their teamsponsors on their shirts (and therefore on stream?). Why would it be any different ingame? A tournament sponsored by Razer but every team in the final is sponsored by steelseries - so the steelseries exposure would be higher compared to the Razer one. Not sure if Razer would be too happy about it (since they're competing for the same market).
On June 25 2012 04:19 Eatme wrote: If it's done in a tasteful way I'm all for it. Dont know how it should be implemented in an optimal way so we dont get people with huge cocks on their Command Centre.
Lol, I think it's mainly for tournament organizers : D imagine a spire.
Is this where we start linking the zerg is female feminist article?
On June 25 2012 04:19 Eatme wrote: If it's done in a tasteful way I'm all for it. Dont know how it should be implemented in an optimal way so we dont get people with huge cocks on their Command Centre.
Lol, I think it's mainly for tournament organizers : D imagine a spire.
Is this where we start linking the zerg is female feminist article?
Having signs ingame with the different logos is a nice idea (think of the iPistol ad that runs on some of the billboards ingame). But there's a lot to think about, such as:
Which sponsor is your main sponsor? How much exposure should each sponsor get? Must all maps have the same amount of billboards? Where will they be displayed? How is this supposed to work in a tournament setting where there might be dozens of people using the same computer? Will these logotypes be attached to the replays as well? What rules are there for the ads? Static? Motion? Will rapid blinking be allowed? How do players add the sponsors? What about old games, what happens when a team changes their main sponsor and the vast majority of the replays on their site feature ads from their main competitor? Who is a "pro" that is allowed to use the ads feature? Is everyone allowed to use them, if so there will be goatse everywhere.
I think this is the next big step in esports, especially from a sponsorship point of view. I think how this could be best used is if someone there is a spectator mode that only in that mode do the logos and everything appear, that way actual gameplay is unaffected.
A step up would be making it so protoss/terran/zerg units got EG embllems on their uniform (or pro teams)... That would sure as hell go "yo valve, look at we got" : D
Just like a tiny symbol, that only pro teams can have (like a shoulder patch on a marine)
I think this sounds like a cool idea. Pro teams should get portraits with their team symbol on it so you know it's the real player on ladder (if they want). As far as building these types of things into maps I guess it's okay as long as it's not too intrusive.
I think its a terrible idea that clutters up the screen even more than some of the terrible maps doodads already do (spaceshark anyone?). It's just gonna end up as additional sponsor messages, but instead of only intruding in the command box they'll now be in more places.
I wouldn't waste any time on it if I were blizzard, and I don't see why anyone is excited about more ads.
yes what a victory for esport, which wasn't there before. Not even on warcraft 3 maps ... (or dawn of war) Also easy to do with the galaxy editor. If people(tournaments) don't bother with it, why should Blizzard (who actually showed on meta an example, i gun anyone ?). I mean you can fix the colors on the player spot. Player 1 = red, Player 2 = yellows. And the colors would decide which banner is shown. Rest would be copy paste on every map. Observer could decide what commercials will run on the screens, by choosing his color lol.
Really hate when people sell something as a first timer, when they just stole the idea. Not that valve itself says it wasn't done before.
The idea itself does not sound bad. But I think the examples shown (e.g. lambda symbol) are problematic, since this symbol could cause copyright issues. So, if they implement something like that, they would have to have some kind of pre-set icons/decals you can choose (like in WoW Arena-Teams and Guilds) or they would have to check the uploaded decals/icons.
Edit: Of course I realize that the lambda symbol originates from the Half-Life series, of which Valve holds the copyrights (so no problem with this example).
On June 25 2012 04:15 NeMeSiS3 wrote: teams are already placing such logos on the maps anyway (note GSL for example) so it's not an insanely big issue, especially since Blizzard is already letting us use tournament maps in ladder pool.
GSL for example? I don't recall the GSL placing logos on maps. But yeah I agree It's not an issue since I think advertisment on maps is pretty much the equivalent.
As others have pointed out, Total Biscuit did a segment on this
Im slowly being won over to the tournament logos on UI, score and matchup screens. It kinda has the best of both worlds allowing for increased sponsor presence (as TB puts it) while also firmly drawing a line in the sand against Mountain Dew Motherships.
I think the problem with this that people have is it's a bit too vague. Say, for example, we have faded team logos that appear behind the person's name id in the loading screen? That would not be particularly intrusive and is easier to keep associated to the player. (Rather than having them on every unit.)
As long as it's done in a cool, tasteful way like in dota2, I don't see a problem. The banners in dota2 are cool because each team has a base and now it feels more visceral and teamlike. I like the addition in dota2.
On June 25 2012 23:58 SnipedSoul wrote: I wouldn't like it. Also, you'd have to pay Blizzard an assload of money to get them to agree to it.
You wouldn't need to pay them anything. Adding logos to the UI/geometry is all possible through the galaxy editor, and would be no more against the ToS or end user agreement than any of the modified maps that blizzard encourages the creation of.
I'm sure they could theorhetically try and pull some legal stuff, but I don't think they would.
I said it in another thread about sponsorship, it would be a very simple fix involving some additions to geometry and texturing. You might need to hard-craft these items and create 3x however many teams are competing in "races" but it would not be difficult, simply time consuming.
If the upcomming Blizzard Arcade is going to allow people to pay money the creator for well built custom maps, I see no reason why they can't do it for teams as well. Personally, I think it would be a great way to support teams directly, get them exposure and make my SC2 look more awesome. If Sponsors wants to throw their dollars in, great as long as their adds are not on the units/builds themselves and always on the sidelines.
On June 25 2012 23:58 SnipedSoul wrote: I wouldn't like it. Also, you'd have to pay Blizzard an assload of money to get them to agree to it.
You wouldn't need to pay them anything. Adding logos to the UI/geometry is all possible through the galaxy editor, and would be no more against the ToS or end user agreement than any of the modified maps that blizzard encourages the creation of.
I'm sure they could theorhetically try and pull some legal stuff, but I don't think they would.
I said it in another thread about sponsorship, it would be a very simple fix involving some additions to geometry and texturing. You might need to hard-craft these items and create 3x however many teams are competing in "races" but it would not be difficult, simply time consuming.
The only issue with adding textures to units is that the game is optomized for specific amount of memory per texture/unit. Blizzard would still need to approve any addition to the game itself, since they do not want some logo/unit dragging down people's preformance. But as long as they took the effort to optomize everything that was submitted, it can be done.
This is a no brain yes. Realy good idea and cant see anny drawbacks. Only need to convince blizzard but that should not be to hard? it will only help sc as an esports.
On June 25 2012 23:58 SnipedSoul wrote: I wouldn't like it. Also, you'd have to pay Blizzard an assload of money to get them to agree to it.
You wouldn't need to pay them anything. Adding logos to the UI/geometry is all possible through the galaxy editor, and would be no more against the ToS or end user agreement than any of the modified maps that blizzard encourages the creation of.
I'm sure they could theorhetically try and pull some legal stuff, but I don't think they would.
I said it in another thread about sponsorship, it would be a very simple fix involving some additions to geometry and texturing. You might need to hard-craft these items and create 3x however many teams are competing in "races" but it would not be difficult, simply time consuming.
The only issue with adding textures to units is that the game is optomized for specific amount of memory per texture/unit. Blizzard would still need to approve any addition to the game itself, since they do not want some logo/unit dragging down people's preformance. But as long as they took the effort to optomize everything that was submitted, it can be done.
That's not an issue. Even a ridiculously high-res texture, with a high poly model to attach it to of the size it would need to be in order to show everything it needs to show, would add absolutely nothing to the game's performance. You would need considerable numbers of these models/textures running around to notice any gameplay snags at all. It is simply not something that tournaments/teams seem to have wanted to/thought of implementing.
I wouldn't mind seeing Polt with a TSL emblem on his CCs or something but it might detract from the aesthetic of the game? I don't know. It's a neat idea but not really something I'd want Blizzard to devote resources to. There's other things they could focus on.
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