EPTI'm watching MVP's stream right now and he just romped a zerg (after a completely shut down cloaked banshee opener) by getting a relatively early third and attacking with mass mass mass marine + tank while always having his reinforcements sieged up and defensive at home to keep safe from counters. Shortly before attacking, he stimmed like 8 marines forward to kill off 3 queens, and then just continued to kill tumors every time he was on creep. He did a couple drops, but nothing too crazy. He just straight up played solid and actually dealt with one of the biggest problems: creep.
1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…
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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed. 12:09 KST Page 98 | ||
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Holophonist
United States297 Posts
I'm watching MVP's stream right now and he just romped a zerg (after a completely shut down cloaked banshee opener) by getting a relatively early third and attacking with mass mass mass marine + tank while always having his reinforcements sieged up and defensive at home to keep safe from counters. Shortly before attacking, he stimmed like 8 marines forward to kill off 3 queens, and then just continued to kill tumors every time he was on creep. He did a couple drops, but nothing too crazy. He just straight up played solid and actually dealt with one of the biggest problems: creep. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:17 Holophonist wrote: oh my gosh.... STOP TALKING ABOUT ALL-INS. Do you realize how silly it is to actually discuss what kind of early aggression you can do now when the whole point of the patch was to move people away from early aggression? wtf. I'm watching MVP's stream right now and he just romped a zerg (after a completely shut down cloaked banshee opener) by getting a relatively early third and attacking with mass mass mass marine + tank while always having his reinforcements sieged up and defensive at home to keep safe from counters. Shortly before attacking, he stimmed like 8 marines forward to kill off 3 queens, and then just continued to kill tumors every time he was on creep. He did a couple drops, but nothing too crazy. He just straight up played solid and actually dealt with one of the biggest problems: creep. Just fucking imagine this for a second. That Zerg was insanely far ahead after the failed banshee. Just IMAGINE THIS. What if the Zerg had gone 13 minute hive instead of Mutas? Easy win...  Stop talking like you have any idea about what's going on. Also, that Zerg stayed off Hive tech for a really long time. And the game was 1000 times more entertaining than any 13 minute hive Broodlord game I've seen. | ||
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Torra
Norway469 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:17 Holophonist wrote: oh my gosh.... STOP TALKING ABOUT ALL-INS. Do you realize how silly it is to actually discuss what kind of early aggression you can do now when the whole point of the patch was to move people away from early aggression? wtf. I'm watching MVP's stream right now and he just romped a zerg (after a completely shut down cloaked banshee opener) by getting a relatively early third and attacking with mass mass mass marine + tank while always having his reinforcements sieged up and defensive at home to keep safe from counters. Shortly before attacking, he stimmed like 8 marines forward to kill off 3 queens, and then just continued to kill tumors every time he was on creep. He did a couple drops, but nothing too crazy. He just straight up played solid and actually dealt with one of the biggest problems: creep. He's playing on NA. Nuff said. | ||
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nikoYO
Germany131 Posts
 its just no fun...the low level zergs (bronze - gold) dont even know how to use queens so there is no change at all...BUT i like to watch SC2 tourneys and as a viewer, id like to see more terrans advance, like into the 2nd or even 3rd round...but everytime i tune in its ZVP, and the next round we have ? ZVP and after that a ZVZ! not much fun! like WCS EU lol there was 1 terran and he died right away so all we get to watch now is ZVP | ||
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Khanz
France214 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:25 nikoYO wrote: no way MVP (def one of the worst terrans ever) can win 1 game against zerg on ladder! i dont play ladder anymore because i cant handle tvp its just no fun...the low level zergs (bronze - gold) dont even know how to use queens so there is no change at all...BUT i like to watch SC2 tourneys and as a viewer, id like to see more terrans advance, like into the 2nd or even 3rd round...but everytime i tune in its ZVP, and the next round we have ? ZVP and after that a ZVZ! not much fun! like WCS EU lol there was 1 terran and he died right away so all we get to watch now is ZVP I guess you did not live the Terran era. | ||
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nikoYO
Germany131 Posts
yes i did! and i liked it ! TVT is so diverse and tactical. i like that mirror! and there where still TVZ and TVP now ALL!!!! we got in ALL!! tourneys are ZVP and the P and Z mirros which are basicly a dice roll 90% of the time... | ||
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:13 Shiori wrote: How were Zergs on the back foot yet still winning at least 50% of the time? Zerg winning percentage has always been on the lower end of TvZ especially in Korea up until this patch. And I just said it set them back not that it is impossible to win and most Terrens didn't realize the strength until right up to this patch. Please add to the discussion not make shitty one liners. I play about 6-10 hours per day and watch almost every tournament that comes on. I don't need a bronze player telling me what this game is like. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:31 nikoYO wrote: yes i did! and i liked it ! TVT is so diverse and tactical. i like that mirror! and there where still TVZ and TVP now ALL!!!! we got in ALL!! tourneys are ZVP and the P and Z mirros which are basicly a dice roll 90% of the time... I mean while this guys logic is completely flawed, I agree with him. the T era of TvT, TvP, and TvZ was much more entertaining than the constant ZvP, ZvZ, and PvPs we get now :S However, it's irrelevant. The queen change ruined TvZ. On June 24 2012 00:32 CajunMan wrote: Zerg winning percentage has always been on the lower end of TvZ especially in Korea up until this patch. And I just said it set them back not that it is impossible to win and most Terrens didn't realize the strength until right up to this patch. This is just wrong. | ||
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nikoYO
Germany131 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:33 Sroobz wrote: I mean while this guys logic is completely flawed, I agree with him. the T era of TvT, TvP, and TvZ was much more entertaining than the constant ZvP, ZvZ, and PvPs we get now :S However, it's irrelevant. The queen change ruined TvZ. where is my logic flawed? | ||
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:33 Sroobz wrote: This is just wrong. Prove it!!!!!!!!!!! If you think otherwise you are dead wrong. Did you never watch GSTVT? for Christ sakes have you been living under a rock for the past year? | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:37 CajunMan wrote: Prove it!!!!!!!!!!! If you think otherwise you are dead wrong. Did you never watch GSTVT? for Christ sakes have you been living under a rock for the past year? Go look at the stats yourself... Z is favored May 2012, March 2012, August 2011. I know it's not a lot, but they are favored in more months than just June 2012. | ||
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Creager
Germany1904 Posts
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:43 Sroobz wrote: Go look at the stats yourself... Z is favored May 2012, March 2012, August 2011. I know it's not a lot, but they are favored in more months than just June 2012. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317114 Win rates for 12 months in foreign scene up until February with Terren favored in every single month. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291886 Win Rates for 12 months with Korea in this one after 2010 Terren favored by a MASSIVE percentage in Korea up to 60 to 40 Please explain. On June 24 2012 00:48 Creager wrote: having endured (and enjoyed) the terran era during the first one and a half years of SC2 simply has nothing to do nor justifies having an imbalanced era of Z and P now, when do people get this?! Just because X or Y was imbalanced back then doesn't mean A or B can be legitimately imbalanced now... The dwindling numbers of Terrans in Tournaments and high ladder should be really concerning for everyone who loves this game! And don't throw this "terran has to come up with sth." BS at me!!! The only things P and Z ever had to come up with against OP Terran shit was enough whine to get buffed (or Terran nerfed)... The racial balance is pretty good right now while late game TvP can be tough terrens are no longer using their drop capabilities to the maximum potential anymore and much like in ZvP how Zergs learned in many cases you just need to avoid his army like the plague. And terrens stopped building ghosts for some reason. Even with the nerf to EMP it still has the highest burst DPS of any unit in the game and ghosts are good against Zealots. The dwindling Terrens are only those that had no drive to begin with. Zergs have pushed through being underpowered for a large portion of this games life. The balance will come with time but with the meta game constantly shifting new Terrens will take the place and good riddens. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:56 CajunMan wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317114 Win rates for 12 months in foreign scene up until February with Terren favored in every single month. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291886 Win Rates for 12 months with Korea in this one after 2010 Terren favored by a MASSIVE percentage in Korea up to 60 to 40 Please explain. Did you even read my post? Z is favored May 2012, March 2012, August 2011 in KOREA. This is why I said "This is just wrong" to your post. | ||
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Thylacine
Sweden882 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:59 Sroobz wrote: Did you even read my post? Z is favored May 2012, March 2012, August 2011 in KOREA. This is why I said "This is just wrong" to your post. No, he deffiently didn't read it. | ||
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:59 Sroobz wrote: Did you even read my post? Z is favored May 2012, March 2012, August 2011 in KOREA. This is why I said "This is just wrong" to your post. Please stfu I did read them but 3 random months only show 1 thing the game was patched that month or right before or the meta game shifting heavily. August was right on the heels of infestor play exploding then the next month it is back to Terren favored. Then you quote the last 2 months of Terren QQ including last month with the Queen change your argument is just stupid and you can argument semantics all day but when Terren had 60% win rate in Korea there was nothing like this for Zerg. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On June 24 2012 01:18 CajunMan wrote: Please stfu I did read them but 3 random months only show 1 thing the game was patched that month or right before or the meta game shifting heavily. August was right on the heels of infestor play exploding then the next month it is back to Terren favored. Then you quote the last 2 months of Terren QQ including last month with the Queen change your argument is just stupid and you can argument semantics all day but when Terren had 60% win rate in Korea there was nothing like this for Zerg. Terran players for the longest time had MVP, MMA, Top, STC, MKP, among various other excellent players. Zergs in Korea had...... Nestea. Whose worst match-up is TvZ by far, even today. So yes, no shit Terran is going to have an excellent win % in Korea. | ||
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
On June 24 2012 01:20 superstartran wrote: Terran players for the longest time had MVP, MMA, Top, STC, MKP, among various other excellent players. Zergs in Korea had...... Nestea. Whose worst match-up is TvZ by far, even today. So yes, no shit Terran is going to have an excellent win % in Korea. That's because Zerg players were held down. DRG, Losira, and Leenock were all still playing at that time. Terrens have always had a better win rae especially in the GSL not just the names you mentioned but random terrens dominated the round of 32. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Tryagain4free
81 Posts
On June 24 2012 01:25 Reaps wrote: The average age in this thread seem's very low, shouldnt this thread have been closed already? Hi Reaps Don't know if this is just matter of age. People of all ages can produce silly statements. But I strongly agree with your feeling, that the quality of the most recent posts have gone down. Which is sad, because we established quite an interesting and mature discussion. Don't know how you think about it, but in my eyes winrates from 2010-2011 have nothing to do with the topic of the OP. So the latest arguments about this are misleading and just poor. Too much "GTFO" and "YOUR STUPID" and "BTW" comments. Really hoped we could leave this up to reddit or BNet forums. | ||
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