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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
12:09 KST Page 98 |
Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky?
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal?
User was warned for this post
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On June 26 2012 21:17 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky?
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal?
Oh god was waiting for someone to mention this. Do you even think before typing or what.
The whining in this thread is getting out of control.
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Balance aside mass infestors are boring to watch.
Also blizz are confusing - mass thors? too unslightly = nerf
- mass ghost counter to half the tier 3 or zerg? zerg unhappy? over nerf into ground bye bye ghosts.
- mass infestor kinda viable, unit counters pretty much everything? fine.....
yeah not sure i see them explaining this, but i guess they dont explain or answer anything do they. They just insta nerf T out of the blue over and over and over :D.
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On June 26 2012 21:19 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:17 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky?
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal? Oh god was waiting for someone to mention this. Do you even think before typing or what. The whining in this thread is getting out of control.
I thought about it the whole game. I thought about HOW bomber would manage to win, running through every possibility in my mind.
Explain to me how to counter 40 infestors in a legitimate fashion not some stupid GSL IIRC chat solution like" build ghosts EMP ROFL"
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Personally I think the new Queen is fine, its a Zerg defence buff that im sure noone could say they didnt need but the map control the Hellions now get is much more similer to the first solo Stalker from P then it used to be, and before someone says its nothing like, its a quick unit that you can build 2 of at the same time, have a ok enough HP for a run by to scout and live and poke and can be healed, T can start using them to count queens, scout bases and maybe get a run by ect ect and get alot of information that way, and can still hold off creap map vision, while not preventing zerg vision, slows it down, the main problem from the T side i think is that the Hellion can no longer be used to be aggressive, but still fills a great role for scouting and preventing early ling/bling aggression.
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On June 26 2012 21:30 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:19 Reaps wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 GeNeSiDe wrote:Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky? + Show Spoiler +
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal?
Oh god was waiting for someone to mention this. Do you even think before typing or what. The whining in this thread is getting out of control. + Show Spoiler +I thought about it the whole game. I thought about HOW bomber would manage to win, running through every possibility in my mind.
Explain to me how to counter 40 infestors in a legitimate fashion not some stupid GSL IIRC chat solution like" build ghosts EMP ROFL"
You guys need to be putting that shit in spoilers tags.
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On June 26 2012 21:30 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:19 Reaps wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky?
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal? Oh god was waiting for someone to mention this. Do you even think before typing or what. The whining in this thread is getting out of control. I thought about it the whole game. I thought about HOW bomber would manage to win, running through every possibility in my mind. Explain to me how to counter 40 infestors in a legitimate fashion not some stupid GSL IIRC chat solution like" build ghosts EMP ROFL"
I would suggest for T (not a T player) do more multi tasking drops to spread them out or make lots of cheap units and pre split, making lots of rax with reactor to spam refil marines to kill the energy of the festers and using the gas for either Medivac/ tech unit of choice
Also ive not seen the match in advance, im just suggesting a idea?
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On June 26 2012 21:04 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 20:31 Reaps wrote:
Meanwhile in the gsl, every terran has got through. (bomber 1 game away)
erm, why are all of them in code A in the first place? including probably top 3 or not the best terran in the world MMA..
Because this is how the GSL format works?
Oh and MMA slumped before the patch so don't even dare to say its because of that.
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+ Show Spoiler +So bomber wins with mech making every terran to go through this GSL. Even taking out zergs like monster. Of course won't stop the whining in this thread though 
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On June 26 2012 21:30 Rampoon wrote:
Balance aside mass infestors are boring to watch.
Also blizz are confusing - mass thors? too unslightly = nerf
- mass ghost counter to half the tier 3 or zerg? zerg unhappy? over nerf into ground bye bye ghosts.
- mass infestor kinda viable, unit counters pretty much everything? fine.....
yeah not sure i see them explaining this, but i guess they dont explain or answer anything do they. They just insta nerf T out of the blue over and over and over :D.
Ghosts weren't countering half the Zerg tier 3 options. They were used to counter all Zerg tier 3 options. Read blizzards explanation for the snipe nerf
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4448820/
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Really look those of you who are complaining. This Queen change is still evolving. I just saw 3 Zergs lose today on the GSL and kudos to the Terrans who are experimenting with newer builds like going bio pressure, fake 4 rax into mech and even ravens.
I have posted earlier in this thread before that there are new solutions , if you Ts still want to reactor hellion and complain instead of adopting to new gameplay, there's nothing that can be done. Keep your reactor hellions then.
And to that idiot who whined about mass infestors, even Khaldor brought it up - not 1 ghost made? Something wrong there? 1 EMP can render 5-6 infestors (i'm sure it can be done esp if cloak was researched, dun gimme that BS that infestor gonna neural cloaked ghost all the time.
And mech can work, I'm nt surprised if I see more mech in upcoming TvZs at the GSL.
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On June 26 2012 21:44 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:30 Rampoon wrote:
Balance aside mass infestors are boring to watch.
Also blizz are confusing - mass thors? too unslightly = nerf
- mass ghost counter to half the tier 3 or zerg? zerg unhappy? over nerf into ground bye bye ghosts.
- mass infestor kinda viable, unit counters pretty much everything? fine.....
yeah not sure i see them explaining this, but i guess they dont explain or answer anything do they. They just insta nerf T out of the blue over and over and over :D. Ghosts weren't countering half the Zerg tier 3 options. They were used to counter all Zerg tier 3 options. Read blizzards explanation for the snipe nerf http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4448820/
What we just saw was infestors countering every single terran option full stop.
Come on, you have to realize that countering 3/3 battlecruisers, ravens, marine and marauder balls across the entire map with just pure infestors is utterly ludicrous.
He also made 4 overseers and infestors are much faster than ghosts so no, easymode EMPs were not an option. They basically need to have a weakness and that weakness should be air.
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On June 26 2012 21:35 Asukurra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:30 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 26 2012 21:19 Reaps wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky?
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal? Oh god was waiting for someone to mention this. Do you even think before typing or what. The whining in this thread is getting out of control. I thought about it the whole game. I thought about HOW bomber would manage to win, running through every possibility in my mind. Explain to me how to counter 40 infestors in a legitimate fashion not some stupid GSL IIRC chat solution like" build ghosts EMP ROFL" I would suggest for T (not a T player) do more multi tasking drops to spread them out or make lots of cheap units and pre split, making lots of rax with reactor to spam refil marines to kill the energy of the festers and using the gas for either Medivac/ tech unit of choice Also ive not seen the match in advance, im just suggesting a idea?
Open my spoiler tag where I disprove your "theory" and you'll understand why I want to QQ right now. Installing WC3FT as we speak, since I know everyone is gonna do Freaky style on ladder now.
+ Show Spoiler +basically, bomber first went for HSM to kill the infestors off, but only managed to get 1 multi-kill, got his ravens fungalled out of HSM range, they died.
Then he build up 3-3 BC viking off 5 base vs a 5 base zerg going mass festors , trading his MM forces to free supply/kill festors/bases.
Finally, when he had like 12 BCS, 3-4 ravens and some supporting stuff, he rolled through Freaky's entire map position,killing off 5 bases including his main/tech. Freaky setup a expansion in the bottom right, and send his infestors out to spam fungal/IT on the BC's and to slow them down...it worked, eventually he neuralled the last 3-4 BCs, pulled them over a swarm of IT, and focused them down.
At this point bomber had 3 mining bases vs freaky's 1 hatch with no tech. However Freaky slowly choked out bomber by fungalling SCV's/mules, dropping IT's everywhere. Bomber rebuild huge MM forces but everytime he attacked the zergs position, the fungals/IT stopped him dead. He tried to go back to ravens, those got owned too.
Finally Bomber was just out of options because 30-40 infestors meant he litertally could just mass spellcast to defend and to choke out Bomber.
And again, GHOSTS GET OWNS BY INFESTORS. FUNGAL REVEALS. YOU TRADE FUNGAL ENERGY FOR ACTUAL UNITS WHICH IS THE PROBLEM WITH FESTORS, THEY CAN TRADE TOO COST EFFICIENTLY VS EVERYTHING!
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On June 26 2012 21:44 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:30 Rampoon wrote:
Balance aside mass infestors are boring to watch.
Also blizz are confusing - mass thors? too unslightly = nerf
- mass ghost counter to half the tier 3 or zerg? zerg unhappy? over nerf into ground bye bye ghosts.
- mass infestor kinda viable, unit counters pretty much everything? fine.....
yeah not sure i see them explaining this, but i guess they dont explain or answer anything do they. They just insta nerf T out of the blue over and over and over :D. Ghosts weren't countering half the Zerg tier 3 options. They were used to counter all Zerg tier 3 options. Read blizzards explanation for the snipe nerf http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4448820/
And Infestors counter what? Everything, t1, t2, t3. It's the strongest unit in the game, not that expensive because you trad energy only.
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On June 26 2012 21:38 Reaps wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So bomber wins with mech making every terran to go through this GSL. Even taking out zergs like monster. Of course won't stop the whining in this thread though
If you read this thread carefully you would notice these two things:
- GSL has a very specific format, where players can prepare builds against their opponents way in advance.
- some people follow more than just GSL and would like to watch (and play) good games on lower levels too, not just the usual PvZzzzz fest.
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It doesn't surprise me that some truly silly Terran players are already moaning about Infestors in this thread, you'll just end up getting it locked by dragging it off topic. You've already been warned over the whining, drop it already.
If you genuinely believe that the Bomber vs. Freaky game means that Infestors counter everything and are unstoppable then no wonder you're complaining about Queens.
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On June 26 2012 21:46 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:35 Asukurra wrote:On June 26 2012 21:30 GeNeSiDe wrote:On June 26 2012 21:19 Reaps wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Anyone watching G2 of Bomber vs Freaky?
FIX INFESTORS PLZ BLIZZARD, Wolf & Khaldor seem to be loving it but goddamn, its just so stupid from an observers POV. I dont want to watch 30-40+ infestors defeating EVERY POSSIBLE UNIT COMP that can be used against them, by trading energy for real units, its just broken as hell.
GJ Blizz for letting us see a GSL game where the terran goes 3-3 mass BC, wipes the zerg off the map, but the power of infestors let's him hold his only hatchery, and actually manage to survive, tech to hive again, and win vs an onslaught consisting of pretty much EVERY unit in the terran arsenal? Oh god was waiting for someone to mention this. Do you even think before typing or what. The whining in this thread is getting out of control. I thought about it the whole game. I thought about HOW bomber would manage to win, running through every possibility in my mind. Explain to me how to counter 40 infestors in a legitimate fashion not some stupid GSL IIRC chat solution like" build ghosts EMP ROFL" I would suggest for T (not a T player) do more multi tasking drops to spread them out or make lots of cheap units and pre split, making lots of rax with reactor to spam refil marines to kill the energy of the festers and using the gas for either Medivac/ tech unit of choice Also ive not seen the match in advance, im just suggesting a idea? Open my spoiler tag where I disprove your "theory" and you'll understand why I want to QQ right now. Installing WC3FT as we speak, since I know everyone is gonna do Freaky style on ladder now. + Show Spoiler +basically, bomber first went for HSM to kill the infestors off, but only managed to get 1 multi-kill, got his ravens fungalled out of HSM range, they died.
Then he build up 3-3 BC viking off 5 base vs a 5 base zerg going mass festors , trading his MM forces to free supply/kill festors/bases.
Finally, when he had like 12 BCS, 3-4 ravens and some supporting stuff, he rolled through Freaky's entire map position,killing off 5 bases including his main/tech. Freaky setup a expansion in the bottom right, and send his infestors out to spam fungal/IT on the BC's and to slow them down...it worked, eventually he neuralled the last 3-4 BCs, pulled them over a swarm of IT, and focused them down.
At this point bomber had 3 mining bases vs freaky's 1 hatch with no tech. However Freaky slowly choked out bomber by fungalling SCV's/mules, dropping IT's everywhere. Bomber rebuild huge MM forces but everytime he attacked the zergs position, the fungals/IT stopped him dead. He tried to go back to ravens, those got owned too.
Finally Bomber was just out of options because 30-40 infestors meant he litertally could just mass spellcast to defend and to choke out Bomber. And again, GHOSTS GET OWNS BY INFESTORS. FUNGAL REVEALS. YOU TRADE FUNGAL ENERGY FOR ACTUAL UNITS WHICH IS THE PROBLEM WITH FESTORS, THEY CAN TRADE TOO COST EFFICIENTLY VS EVERYTHING!
Can someone report this guy.
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On June 26 2012 21:44 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:30 Rampoon wrote:
Balance aside mass infestors are boring to watch.
Also blizz are confusing - mass thors? too unslightly = nerf
- mass ghost counter to half the tier 3 or zerg? zerg unhappy? over nerf into ground bye bye ghosts.
- mass infestor kinda viable, unit counters pretty much everything? fine.....
yeah not sure i see them explaining this, but i guess they dont explain or answer anything do they. They just insta nerf T out of the blue over and over and over :D. Ghosts weren't countering half the Zerg tier 3 options. They were used to counter all Zerg tier 3 options. Read blizzards explanation for the snipe nerf http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4448820/
And Infestors basically counter any and all air play in every matchup (save for Broodlords, and maybe, kinda, Carriers). How is that any better for the game than what Ghosts used to do?
Massing spellcasters should not be any good, period. I understand that the Infestor is kind of a midgame crutch for the Zerg race, so that they can survive to Hive tech in decent shape, but this is simply not good design, and makes for crappy gameplay. Stop fungal from hitting air and buff traditional Zerg anti-air options in HotS, imo.
Well, they'll need to nerf something anyway. since current Infestors combined with all the new stuff Zerg gets in HotS will definitely not make for a balanced game.
For the record, I mostly ladder as Protoss, and a bit as Zerg, so I don't have any stake in the TvZ feud.
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On June 26 2012 21:50 avc wrote:
It doesn't surprise me that some truly silly Terran players are already moaning about Infestors in this thread, you'll just end up getting it locked by dragging it off topic. You've already been warned over the whining, drop it already.
If you genuinely believe that the Bomber vs. Freaky game means that Infestors counter everything and are unstoppable then no wonder you're complaining about Queens.
It's not whining, what we saw was the actual result of all this zerg theorycrafting on how to beat zerg late game and it couldn't even win against ONE of the three components it was supposed to be victorious against!
Fortunately we did see some good pure bio timings designed to crush zerg early game so we don't have to play the ludicrous late game TvZ anymore, but still. Come on. That was utterly stupid and proves virtually everything we've been saying about lategame TvZ.
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EPT
