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On June 11 2012 13:49 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:38 Amlitzer wrote:On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. I consider it less stale then the observer and yet you never see anyone compain about the simplicity of it. Speaking of the observer, with the oracle being so insanely fast I'm wondering if people will start to postpone their robotech and just using the oracle to scout. The oracle is so fast that you can easily get enough cannons or a robo + observer out in time if you scout banshees, dts, and etc. You don't even need to go observer because oracle can give detection with Preordain. Clearly they gave this detection option to the stargate so that Toss isn't forced down the robo tech path.
You're going to want observers to deal with widow mines outside of the range of buildings to target with Preordain.
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Wait a second... If I put a nexus 8 range away from a teammate's command center build a mothership core and energize, could that be infinite scans and mules?
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On June 11 2012 13:52 lorkac wrote:
Can you toss changelings up a cliff, then charge the changelings with your ultralisks? What about Infested terrans up a cliff? And then you charge them with an Ultralisk?
Ultralisk charge doesn't target units as far as I'm aware, it's just like Blink. Click ground and go there. Unlike Blink, however, I'm almost positive it can't go up or down cliffs.
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how much hp is window mine
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On June 11 2012 13:55 Zairair wrote:
Wait a second... If I put a nexus 8 range away from a teammate's command center build a mothership core and energize, could that be infinite scans and mules?
Oh lol. I see team games becoming enormously hilarious! Nexus in to max energy to boost t's economy. 
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On June 11 2012 13:55 Zairair wrote:
Wait a second... If I put a nexus 8 range away from a teammate's command center build a mothership core and energize, could that be infinite scans and mules?
Maybe, but I guarantee that the energize ability will not even see Beta for reasons like that. Infinite chrono-boost alone is already going to get it removed.
On June 11 2012 14:01 iky43210 wrote:
how much hp is window mine
OP says 55. I'm inclined to believe them, although there is a good amount of false information there, because that's the kind of statistic which is pretty easy to get right.
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On June 11 2012 14:10 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:55 Zairair wrote:
Wait a second... If I put a nexus 8 range away from a teammate's command center build a mothership core and energize, could that be infinite scans and mules? Maybe, but I guarantee that the energize ability will not even see Beta for reasons like that. Infinite chrono-boost alone is already going to get it removed. OP says 55. I'm inclined to believe them, although there is a good amount of false information there, because that's the kind of statistic which is pretty easy to get right.
I think that energize ability is only for units?
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Some new stuff I saw at MLG that I don't think has been added here.
-Ultralisk bonus damage is still to armored, not changed to light as reported earlier
-Tempest attack upgrade is +4 (+2 vs massive) per upgrade
-Locust attack upgrade is +2 per upgrade
-When 2 vipers are ordered to abduct each other, they both pull each other and basically switch positions (I have a video that I'll try to add later, it's pretty funny)
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On June 11 2012 14:26 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Some new stuff I saw at MLG that I don't think has been added here.
-Ultralisk bonus damage is still to armored, not changed to light as reported earlier
-Tempest attack upgrade is +4 (+2 vs massive) per upgrade
-Locust attack upgrade is +2 per upgrade
-When 2 vipers are ordered to abduct each other, they both pull each other and basically switch positions (I have a video that I'll try to add later, it's pretty funny)
Good stuff to know. Holy shit Locusts... also LOL at that last one.
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On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it.
Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose.
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mothership core allll dayyyyyy cant wait
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On June 11 2012 14:33 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose.
The observer is the same thing. Why do people cry about units being stale when they serve a purpose.
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On June 11 2012 14:37 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 14:33 sunprince wrote:On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose. The observer is the same thing. Why do people cry about units being stale when they serve a purpose.
Agreed, the last thing the game needs is more useless gimmicks. If something works then it works, it doesn't have to be flashy about it. Besides, the changeling change is already a big buff to the overseer.
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If there are any units to cry over, the Corruptor is higher on that list than the Overseer.
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On June 11 2012 14:26 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Some new stuff I saw at MLG that I don't think has been added here.
-Ultralisk bonus damage is still to armored, not changed to light as reported earlier
-Tempest attack upgrade is +4 (+2 vs massive) per upgrade
-Locust attack upgrade is +2 per upgrade
-When 2 vipers are ordered to abduct each other, they both pull each other and basically switch positions (I have a video that I'll try to add later, it's pretty funny)
What's battle hellions armour type if you know.
Also I would be interested to see if you have any terran videos.
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On June 11 2012 14:37 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 14:33 sunprince wrote:On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose. The observer is the same thing. Why do people cry about units being stale when they serve a purpose.
I can't tell if you're incredibly ignorant or just trolling. The observer is certainly not the same thing, as it's a cloaked unit which fits within the Protoss arsenal as the unique form of Protoss detection.
Different styles of detection for each race is one of the basic design principles of Starcraft: Terrans get sweep and vessels/ravens, Protoss get obs and plenty of splash effects to ignore cloak, while Zerg gets built-in detectors with their overlords (in-line with the Zerg concept of multi-purpose units/buildings). Each form of detection has its own advantages.
Overlords weren't broken to start with, and the "fix" is just plain awful. The Overseer is essentially a copy of half of the Terran detection concept (the vessel/raven), except terribad.
On June 11 2012 14:42 Amlitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 14:37 Infernal_dream wrote:On June 11 2012 14:33 sunprince wrote:On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose. The observer is the same thing. Why do people cry about units being stale when they serve a purpose. Agreed, the last thing the game needs is more useless gimmicks. If something works then it works, it doesn't have to be flashy about it. Besides, the changeling change is already a big buff to the overseer.
If we actually applied your logic, then overlords with detection worked just fine without being flashy. The only flashy concept here is overseers with their changelings/contaminate.
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On June 11 2012 14:01 iky43210 wrote:
how much hp is window mine
widow mine have 55 hp, is possible to see it in the battle report
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On June 11 2012 16:50 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 14:37 Infernal_dream wrote:On June 11 2012 14:33 sunprince wrote:On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose. The observer is the same thing. Why do people cry about units being stale when they serve a purpose. I can't tell if you're incredibly ignorant or just trolling. The observer is certainly not the same thing, as it's a cloaked unit which fits within the Protoss arsenal as the unique form of Protoss detection. Different styles of detection for each race is one of the basic design principles of Starcraft: Terrans get sweep and vessels/ravens, Protoss get obs and plenty of splash effects to ignore cloak, while Zerg gets built-in detectors with their overlords (in-line with the Zerg concept of multi-purpose units/buildings). Each form of detection has its own advantages. Overlords weren't broken to start with, and the "fix" is just plain awful. The Overseer is essentially a copy of half of the Terran detection concept (the vessel/raven), except terribad. Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 14:42 Amlitzer wrote:On June 11 2012 14:37 Infernal_dream wrote:On June 11 2012 14:33 sunprince wrote:On June 11 2012 13:26 aka_star wrote:
I Hate the overseer so much.... the stale unit just makes me want to cry even more so now no changes seems present for it. Agreed, it's awful. All they really had to do to address the "detectoriffic" Zerg issue was make overlords having detection unlockable at Lair (rather than always as in BW), instead of creating a worthless unit just for that purpose. The observer is the same thing. Why do people cry about units being stale when they serve a purpose. Agreed, the last thing the game needs is more useless gimmicks. If something works then it works, it doesn't have to be flashy about it. Besides, the changeling change is already a big buff to the overseer. If we actually applied your logic, then overlords with detection worked just fine without being flashy. The only flashy concept here is overseers with their changelings/contaminate.
Welp... this guy makes a good argument.
Unfortunately Blizzard is already attached to the idea of the Overseer so it's not going anywhere. It doesn't really hurt the game so, might as well expend your energy trying to get more serious issues fixed.
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Giving a thoght or 2 on the current state of units, let's start with bad concepts (IMHO).
The bad.
T:
Widdow mine.
As from P's PoV it's pretty OP.
200 splahs damage, ouch. It's x10 times harder than baneling.
Protoss is better when fighting closely to each other, and kiting zealots into minefield is going to be so easy.
Also there is a possibility for a widdow-mine drop at your mineral lines, basically i really see that TvP is going to be a slaughter in T's favour. Obs is going to be even more essential, than currently.
And i see no reason why it should attack air. I already see how well placed mines around mineral patches will deny muta harass.
Z:
Swarm host's locust AA attack.
Just to be clear - i like the concept of swarm host, it's fine, and about time zerg would have a siege unit.
But again loscust are pretty damn good, and they cost nothing, so attacking both air and ground sounds really OP.
When saw battle-reports i was just shocked how easy it was for zerg to take out P's army when they were fighting at his 3rd.
Ultralisk charge.
WHY? I just don't get why, making them faster would be more logical.
It is done, so ultras can engage directly into army, but it makes no sense how such a large unit can go underground so fast etc...
Imo just making them faster would seal the deal, and ability to walk over smaller units mb.
P:
Tempest.
As it was discussed even when info about him came out - tempest is shit.
It is as useless as it can be, i was surprised when people started to worry about it's 22 range, but to be honest i am so wtf, cuz I don't really see where this can be used.
First there was a thought of using it as a sige unit, but then i found out that there is no more splash damage, so whole attack goes into single unit...
So with 49 damage over 6 seconds gives you so low dps, which is aburd.
Even thought it has good range vs air, so it's theoretically is going to be a good answer to BL/Corrupter, and maybe vikings in PvT.
But 300/300 with a build time of 75, makes this unit so much expensive and ineffective that getting it is really questionable.
Thought it's rage can be used to snipe Vipers in PvZ, vikings, medivacs in PvT, colossi in PvP.
But overall i still think that it's still not worth it. Would be much happier to see carriers with range buff.
Mothership:
I don't really see why you should get MS now.
Some changes on it are really not worth mentioning.
I think that removing vortex totally and placing same abilities as MScore onto MS and maybe adding a cloacking field as energy-dependent spell would be better.
The good:
T:
Reviewed Reaper
I really like changes so reaper can participate in the game and have it's place int T's BOs.
Though 7 range is a little too much maybe.
Overall very nice.
Thors staying.
Well i didn't see why it should be replaced by some super-thor, so staying as it is in WoL is good.
Z:
Hydra speed.
Long waited upgrade, don't understand why they needed to wait for HotS to add this.
P:
--
The Awesome:
T:
Battle Hellion/Warhound
Just great! There is something about mech terran that i really like, so facing a mech as P is going to make game soo much more interesting, very nice addition and i really see T as all-around good race now.
Thou i first was unsure about Warhounds autocast, but then meh, it's okay.
Z:
Swarm host.
This one is so good, i don't know if it requires burrow or not, but the concept of this unit is awesome.
And even thought i really think it shouldn't have AA attack it's still all-around useful unit.
Viper:
Oh my god. Zerg is getting so good spellcasters, so it will require even more micro from Z, but on highest level of game it's going to be just beautiful to see zerg in play.
And requirement of Hive-tech is not making it OP.
Superb.
P:
Mothership core:
Very nice, getting an earlier recall and recharging nexi chronoboost (if possible) is going to strengten P's early game.
Thought i really think recall should go down from 150 to 125.
Oracle:
When i started to realize how it can be used, it was just WOW, i really think that it is so awesome, yet not overpowered, will surely bring a lot of SG play. And Getting cloack for some 2 base timing is so huge.
Hope Blizz will balace bad units before release and don't remove the carrier from the game.
I really see Zerg running over both races.
Also both Z and T will wipe the floor with P, but as metagame evolve P will survive and overcome obstacles, maybe getting some buffs even.
gg
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Reaper bunker rush will become alot more viable. (like beta?)
Swarm Host look pretty weak compared to tanks and the colossus.
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EPT
