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On June 10 2012 02:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:42 Snoodles wrote:
I just got a new cheese idea: proxy factory widow mine rush. Around 5 minutes in you should be able to get your mines into the mineral lines. 75 min and 25 gas to kill 1 probe? not too smart. The explosion is super duper easy to micro your probes to avoid splash in early game....like real easy. I'm there by the way. It has way more potential when there is 15 of them in the field in late game where its really really hard to pull all of your units out to avoid splash
So I'm guessing both players can see the timer, or at least it's evident to both players when a mine has been triggered?
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On June 10 2012 02:03 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time  Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker.
With 100 Energy cost and lasting only 6 second it will change very little if anything about BC's
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On June 10 2012 02:03 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:42 Snoodles wrote:
I just got a new cheese idea: proxy factory widow mine rush. Around 5 minutes in you should be able to get your mines into the mineral lines. 75 min and 25 gas to kill 1 probe? not too smart. The explosion is super duper easy to micro your probes to avoid splash in early game....like real easy. I'm there by the way. It has way more potential when there is 15 of them in the field in late game where its really really hard to pull all of your units out to avoid splash So I'm guessing both players can see the timer, or at least it's evident to both players when a mine has been triggered?
in this current build yes....they are really cool thou....and I'm a protoss player
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On June 10 2012 02:03 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker.
My problem in the late game TvZ is that Fungal outranges HSM. And Ravens cannot move once fungaled. Even with Tanks positioned, ghosts, vikings, etc., a Zerg can run in and then chain fungal and eliminate your Ravens, and your Ravens are useless in the battle. Also, those units simply can't be replaced as Terran--not enough gas.
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sorry if already asked, but why has there been no showcasing of blinding cloud? they didn't remove that ability did they? i find it hard to believe that players are just not interested in abusing such an ability.
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damn I thought the whole point of the tempest was for it to be AoE and help protoss deal with mutas. Personally as a toss player I don't like that insane range. Just give it siege tank range, but 22 is crazy. Spectating something so far offscreen is going to be weird. But then again, spectating colossus and medivacs is already weird.
And I'm half disappointed and half happy. So many broodwar things are back(even if mostly dumbed down versions), and yet the colossus remains. I'd take anything over that colossus, I hate building it, I hate having to use it. Give me something that's fun to use and replaces that role.
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On June 10 2012 02:05 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:03 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:42 Snoodles wrote:
I just got a new cheese idea: proxy factory widow mine rush. Around 5 minutes in you should be able to get your mines into the mineral lines. 75 min and 25 gas to kill 1 probe? not too smart. The explosion is super duper easy to micro your probes to avoid splash in early game....like real easy. I'm there by the way. It has way more potential when there is 15 of them in the field in late game where its really really hard to pull all of your units out to avoid splash So I'm guessing both players can see the timer, or at least it's evident to both players when a mine has been triggered? in this current build yes....they are really cool thou....and I'm a protoss player
Really cool is great, but from what you wrote it sounds like they have little utility. If both players can see the timer, and there is plenty of time to react, you could just micro workers away. What is so cool about them? After all, they take 75 minerals, 25 gas and 1 supply even.
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On June 10 2012 02:01 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:00 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Marines is something you don't have if you play a mechnical composition ... i mean yeah you could build them but they'd be horribly upgrades. Get vikings. I'm prettty sure that having a few vikings will be standard in HoTS to deal with vipers. But that still won't do anything, vipers have enough health that they will be able to abduct thors before they die, then zerglings kill those thors and Mutas magic box whatever is left and you die.
Also mines will not help versus magic boxing mutas since they will splash on your own army and besides they need to be burrowed.
I don't see how any rational decently high level player can argue that the Thor is just fine for anti air.
Also unupgraded marines won't do shit against Zerg. Blinding cloud and fungal will rape marines.
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Does the mothership core have its own energy bank, or does it use the energy of the nexus its attatched to?
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On June 10 2012 02:02 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Because 0/0, No-Stim, No-Combat Shield Marines are totally gonna save the mutha fuckin day.
I just laughed harder at this than anything I've read on this website in months, hahahaha.
Widow Mines should plug the AA gap though. Even if they never splash (which they shouldn't unless the Z player is SERIOUSLY fuckin distracted) trading 1 for 1 with mutas is still extremely gas efficient.
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On June 10 2012 02:04 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:03 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker. With 100 Energy cost and lasting only 6 second it will change very little if anything about BC's
use speed boost to get to the front lines quicker to support your army already engaging and suddenly! you have no energy to get feedbacked! I think this makes a HUGE difference to be honest, you now have an ability to waste energy on your BCs.
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On June 09 2012 14:10 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 14:08 Solo Terran wrote:
Overall the game looks amazing. The Viper abduct ability, Burrow Charge and Tempest range will all get nerfed probably even before beta, Blizzard said they design new units to be on the overpowered side and then nerf them. The Terran units are a little disappointing in comparison to zerg and protoss but with so much balance still needed I'm sure it will be fine. Just wish the warhound wasn't an a move unit and had an anti air attack.
Also not sure what I think about the recall ability, and the fact that reaper speed doesn't require factory/ it can heal itself. I guess 14 gas 14 pool against terran will be standard in HoTS to get early lings and speed to deal with reapers. I'm excited that at least Terran gets an exciting microable unit even if it's not technically new. Queens will still deal with Reapers with 6 range. 1 Rax FE seems to be dead in TvT though against stronger Reapers.
Yeah I played my first game after the patch in an obs yesterday and was amazed at how dead reaper FE is. He even defended my build so poorly and yet the queens could own the reaper. Even with reaper regen, what utility will this have?
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On June 10 2012 02:08 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:02 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Because 0/0, No-Stim, No-Combat Shield Marines are totally gonna save the mutha fuckin day. I just laughed harder at this than anything I've read on this website in months, hahahaha. Widow Mines should plug the AA gap though. Even if they never splash (which they shouldn't unless the Z player is SERIOUSLY fuckin distracted) trading 1 for 1 with muta's is still extremely gas efficient. For base defense against mutas mines and Turrets are fine. But Terran needs some mobile anti air for mech and mines splashing on your own units don't seem like the best AA to me.
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On June 10 2012 02:09 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:04 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:03 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker. With 100 Energy cost and lasting only 6 second it will change very little if anything about BC's use speed boost to get to the front lines quicker to support your army already engaging and suddenly! you have no energy to get feedbacked! I think this makes a HUGE difference to be honest, you now have an ability to waste energy on your BCs.
It's funny seeing other players trying to get Terran excited about its units in HotS. Frankly, I'm not at all excited and can't imagine any Terran is enamored with what will come.
BCs are still cost inefficient in both MUs notwithstanding the mirror.
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On June 10 2012 02:09 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:04 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:03 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker. With 100 Energy cost and lasting only 6 second it will change very little if anything about BC's use speed boost to get to the front lines quicker to support your army already engaging and suddenly! you have no energy to get feedbacked! I think this makes a HUGE difference to be honest, you now have an ability to waste energy on your BCs.
You have a point about not getting feedbacked, but then you can't yamato right? I havent used BCs in so long that I dont remember how much yamato costs.
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On June 10 2012 02:09 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:04 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:03 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker. With 100 Energy cost and lasting only 6 second it will change very little if anything about BC's use speed boost to get to the front lines quicker to support your army already engaging and suddenly! you have no energy to get feedbacked! I think this makes a HUGE difference to be honest, you now have an ability to waste energy on your BCs.
TvP possibly , TvZ not so much especially with better Hydras . BC's in TvZ will not be used if a speed buff for 100 Energy is all they get.
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On June 10 2012 02:10 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:08 SmileZerg wrote:On June 10 2012 02:02 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Because 0/0, No-Stim, No-Combat Shield Marines are totally gonna save the mutha fuckin day. I just laughed harder at this than anything I've read on this website in months, hahahaha. Widow Mines should plug the AA gap though. Even if they never splash (which they shouldn't unless the Z player is SERIOUSLY fuckin distracted) trading 1 for 1 with muta's is still extremely gas efficient. For base defense against mutas mines and Turrets are fine. But Terran needs some mobile anti air for mech and mines splashing on your own units don't seem like the best AA to me.
if the mine attaches to a muta, it won't hurt your army, but blizzard is experimenting with this but I'm pretty sure it won't hurt your own stuff in the end. And even if it did? once it attaches to an air unit, it only hurts other air units, it won't kill your more important ground army. One mine for one muta is an extremely cost effective trade for you. Also mines + vikings + thors, I think is going to be pretty strong, don't count EVER out terrans AA capabilities, they also have missile turrets and their very own xel naga towers to help.
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On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Well that's the obvious answer to what people will do, people are more trying to address the fact that blizzard wants terrans to move onto an all factory mech lategame, while giving it no AA other then thor.
Edit: mines hit air, but i don't really want to count on zerg running into mines as effective and stable strategy.
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On June 10 2012 02:10 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:08 SmileZerg wrote:On June 10 2012 02:02 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Because 0/0, No-Stim, No-Combat Shield Marines are totally gonna save the mutha fuckin day. I just laughed harder at this than anything I've read on this website in months, hahahaha. Widow Mines should plug the AA gap though. Even if they never splash (which they shouldn't unless the Z player is SERIOUSLY fuckin distracted) trading 1 for 1 with muta's is still extremely gas efficient. For base defense against mutas mines and Turrets are fine. But Terran needs some mobile anti air for mech and mines splashing on your own units don't seem like the best AA to me.
Mines attached to air units only splash air, and Blizz is still messing around with the friendly fire mechanics on the mines anyway.
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I think Blizzard will nerf/buff things to make them viable. What is more important are the design choices; chances are the unit designs (Swarm Host : Siege Breaker) aren't going to change.
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EPT
