EPTHotS MLG Info Updates - Page 90
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:10 Solo Terran wrote: For base defense against mutas mines and Turrets are fine. But Terran needs some mobile anti air for mech and mines splashing on your own units don't seem like the best AA to me. Yeah I love how Zergs of all levels embrace this idea that mutas are not viable. As arank 1 master player, I get pwned by mutas all of the time. And it's not like Terran suddenly "learned how to micro their marines", as this user pointed out lol. It's probably more likely that infestors are even stronger and require less micro and apm. But saying that mutas are "not viable anymore" is a bold-faced lie. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:12 Snoodles wrote: You have a point about not getting feedbacked, but then you can't yamato right? I havent used BCs in so long that I dont remember how much yamato costs. I wouldn't even use or research yamato if I played terran. I would just use speed boost to keep my BCs alive for eternity, go back and repair or burn energy so HT don't hurt them. I admit I don't think BCs will be the best unit, but I think 1 or 2 scattered in your normal bio army would make for a much stronger army than normal in TvP. Most unit compositions for protoss is more reliant on zealot/archon/ht nowadays, the more stalkers they have the less supply they have for their chargelots which are stronger against bio, and the stalkers the better your BCs are. Theory crafting of course but I don't think terran is in deep shit like many people think. | ||
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NormandyBoy
France200 Posts
Because if you're not looking at them, you can't see the timer and your unit dies without you having any clue... | ||
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zeratul_jf
United States808 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:06 megapants wrote: sorry if already asked, but why has there been no showcasing of blinding cloud? they didn't remove that ability did they? i find it hard to believe that players are just not interested in abusing such an ability. It affects bio only and no one wants to go bio in HotS because it sucks since its alrdy hard to micro vs baneling/fungal and its harder to micro vs cloud/baneling but without tanks since they will get pulled to their awesome hydras, or just get owned by charge ultra. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: Are mutas even scary with the new mine? Widow 1-hit ko mutas. Way better than Turrets. What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote: Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options. If you look at the changes, it seems like there's design idea is to calm down the Z and p deathballs and make them more well rounded races. Rather than trying to give Terran a huge unit to give them a deathballs option. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:17 s3rp wrote: What really funny here is people basically suggest Terran to build Air/Mech and Bio units combined not considering there's no way to upgrade everything well enough to compete with armies that only need 1 or 2 sets of Upgrades. Upgrades are fucking important for everything. bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. | ||
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Firesilver
United Kingdom1190 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:17 zmansman17 wrote: What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? Someone said earlier in this thread it doesn't do friendly damage IIRC. | ||
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Solo Terran
367 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:09 emc wrote: use speed boost to get to the front lines quicker to support your army already engaging and suddenly! you have no energy to get feedbacked! I think this makes a HUGE difference to be honest, you now have an ability to waste energy on your BCs. The reason you get BCs is so that you can use Yamato cannon. Without Yamato cannon, an equivalent cost Z or P army is much better than your battlecruiser fleet. That's why this speed upgrade doesn't make any sense. | ||
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Ktk
Korea (South)753 Posts
On every unit: Reaper, Combat Drug: will be cool for TvT; I like it a lot. For other matchups, absolutely worthless. Warhound: Dumb A-move unit that might give the idea that mech is a-move ezpz skill-less. Mech marauder. Widow Mines: Browder said that in pro games he expects pros to split his units to take minimal damage from widowmines. I haven't experimented with mass widow mines really, but it's pretty easy to navigate minefields. You just a-move a few lings split up, or zealots, to tank the hits. Real problems can happen when they launch without you knowing. But the splash radius is weak - the Blizz team apparently wants the mines to target expensive units (See battle report)... But expensive units are always in the back! T1 tanks will take care of mines easiiy. Actually I played widow, hellion, battlecruiser vs ling infestor corruptor and that was fun until the corruptor count got too high  At the lower levels, reactor mine rushing is going to be an absolute shitfest. I think that'll be the biggest reason for an incoming nerf which is a shame because at high levels they're not nearly as big of a threat and will face increasingly large chance of being phased out of popular play fast.Battle Hellion: No problems, it can't hurt, can it? It dies to hydralisk which is pretty funny though. Redline reactor: worthless. It costs 100 energy which is almost a yamato and it's just an escape mechanism. Another mythical ability we'll see twice in HotS? I shouldn't say that. We said that about the carrier and the mothership and they've found roles. An escape mechanism might be welcomed in certain situations, really, but 100 energy is kind of steep don't you think? Conclusion: None of the terran additions really wowed me. Mech looks harder to pull off vs zerg and viable, but not great vs protoss. In one pvt a-moved my zealot/archon/immortal with a vortex from my mothership on some tanks (new stasis, I figured) into two p-forts and came out with a clear victory, 3/3/1 to 3/3 mech. Warping in immediately after engagements will still be the bane of mech style vs protoss, making its use nearly impossible without really really really good engagements that I don't think are possible with opposing features like 22range shots and vortex. I have to admit, Blizzard stepped up on factory and gave terrans theoretically good board control units, but I don't think Mech will be best. Which is a shame, because that's pretty much everything Terran got! Problem with this style is, Blizzard also gave everyone else the hard counters. How about Zerg: Swarm Host: Whatever, I think it's something you'll do to force a reaction. Mech will melt this, however it's like the infested terran trick with infestors. I think infestors will be better in most scenarios vT. Swarm host will force detection. But in ZvT, it's scan. In ZvP, obs standard. But the 7gate blink allin, for example, will have to respect swarm host defenses because locusts are pretty good. It could just cut some builds out entirely. Viper: T3 flat tech, consume is a really cool ability that I like but hook... It could mean the end for any mech, can't it? Playing End-tech mech vs T3 Zerg, I felt like I had no control or presence because my power decreases really fast if not concentrated, and vipers really really wreck this. I also don't know how to beat burrow-charge ultralisk with mech, if tanks/thors are just going to be plucked slowly from my army as I cross the ever-larger maps...? I don't know how I'd defend either my thors or my tanks from random vipers which could literally come from any direction with vikings since the hook and viking shots have similar range. Hydralisk: Uhh, in the battle report, hydras were a viable counter to mech. Well if mech can't beat hydras I don't know what it can beat. Vipers were really the star of the battle report. However, the terran forgot that the starport also exists in HotS; sees 5 vipers, builds no vikings. I laughed a bit at that. But hydras are pretty nice dps. We could see hydra complementing end-game compositions for zerg. Really fast DPS, and with vipers to pull out power units that kill hydras fast, zerg's lategame could be bettered even more. Siphon removed! I was looking forward to that really, since it could free up drone count for corruptor count. Conclusion: not much changed in the earlygame. But what the overarching goal and mindset of zergs can be changed, or at least has more options. You can focus on attacking the opponent head on, or picking apart his army. both have very good tools for the job. Viper looks really good, but I think bio will still be more popular than mech in TvZ despite blinding cloud + fungal... I don't know how you'd prevent vipers from killing your mech army slowly. Vipers could tank the viking shots for the pull. And with the trend of more queens, transfusion is an option too even. In ZvP, forces detection via the swarm host that you have to respect (or get whittled down in fights, dps of locust shouldn't be overlooked - you can get quite a few, actually.) Lategame army for Zerg can take on Protoss still too, but faces new problems in the tempest and energized casters. Furthermore recall on mothership core can make protosses more mobile in the early game. Like being very aggressive with a fail-proof fallback. Protoss: First thing you notice. Nexus abilties. If left as is, Mothership core is going to be the new warp gate, I'm calling this now. This is an indispensible upgrade for any protoss player, I mean all of its abilities are ludicrous. Energize is the real money of this structure/thing though, because it basically means you can get 16 chrono boosts from this structure since the energize function can work on nexus, and/or it'll permit protoss to cut stupid corners like building multiple defensive sentries... You only need to build one, lay down 4 force fields at the ramp, then energize for 4 more almost instantly, rinse and repeat. You could build 2 sentries to be safe. Furthermore, imagine if parting's high templar timing vs terran drop timing comes with high templar 200 energy off the bat, because that's what this is. Real lame; feedback all the medivacs. Proceed to win the game... I hope we see more hallucination play though from all this energy. i also think it'll be nerfed to 50energy per energize and limited to units because extra chrono boosts sounds pretty unfair. On arc cannon, I haven't gotten the chance to use it. Mothership: No longer cloaks since oracle does that. Stasis is cool but idk how it and vortex will play out. No comment. Not too great. Mothership got nerfed but I think mothership core more than makes up for it. Furthermore zerg anti air is hydralisk and corruptor - vortex + stasis can deal with it but it'll be much more demanding than "lol vortex archon!" ftw. Oracle: This will be nerfed as well... Right? First: preordain 2 minutes, I don't care for this, it seems a bit... casual? I can't see the value in this. Pros will use the mineral-block spell for sure, because they'll be able to scout the builds anyways with hyper-fast oracle. It being a piece of paper is pretty cool though. They'll nerf the radius of the block, since a 1-click to deny mining for some time harass mechanic isn't really interesting at all! Cloaking field is sick though... As long as your oracle manages to survive a few viking shots. This also makes vikings mandatory vs stargate tech since it could mean an oracle with cloak at any time! TvP got a lot more interesting. Tempest: First thing I thought was wow 12+10 range is totally freaking imba lol wtf protoss? But then I realized that the game I had been playing wasn't going to be the standard at all. Let's face it: Tempest is the carrier replacement. It does far less damage (also NO SPLASH, ATK SPD 6, SLOW, EXPENSIVE). However in engagements this is really really good for protoss: three tempests means you're doing significant targetted damage in engagements with the tempests essentially unengageable. It forces the opponent to engage or try to escape cost ineffectively due to the huge range. It also helps a lot to break tank lines with 22 range, you know. As if mech wasn't easy enough as it is. In mech, only thors, vikings and battlecruisers can shoot up. None of these will really be able to approach something shooting from 22 range away O_O. I don't know exactly how I feel about this still. Conclusion: Oracle is a harassing glass cannon, boring... Tempest is constant dps from a distance, mothership core is horrifyingly useful. Blizzard's ambitions of wanting more stargate play is made very apparent. This doesn't help the boring deathball style issue either... -_- longest range weapon in the game on top of huge mobility in the game (one-time recall on cyber tech!) the deathball actually just gets a lot better with abilities that make dealing harass easier, and preventing harass easier. (oracle and energize respectively) | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:17 zmansman17 wrote: What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? I thought it only splashes ground if it attached to a ground unit, and only splashes air if it attached to an air unit? Wasn't that mentioned? | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:17 zmansman17 wrote: What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? How many more times do I have to repeat myself - air units tagged by mines only splash other air units. It's right in the OP, try some fucking reading comprehension. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote: bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marines to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:18 SmileZerg wrote: I think overseers are going to see more play now as mutalisk raid support, spotting mines and clearing them with changelings, or using contaminate to aid in the harass. mines don't target changelings or the minions spawned by swarm hosts | ||
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Firesilver
United Kingdom1190 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:19 Solo Terran wrote: Guys bio will be absolute shit versus Zerg in HoTS. Fungal + Blinding cloud + Anything destroys all bio. On top of that our tanks will be getting abducted while that is happening. Bio will only be viable early game. I also fear this may be the case but again, not all changes are final so I will reserve judgement until it's been played out by pros. | ||
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