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On June 10 2012 01:40 Sankanyo wrote:
IMO I like how they are bringing some of the similarities of BW back to hots. Idk, it just kinda remind me of bw haha
do you guys feel the same why?
Yeah. Warhound, widow mines, swarm host, viper...a lot of the changes are "Oh, hey, you know that thing we changed? That was a bad idea. Let's change it back."
This is a good thing.
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On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time  Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity.
Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done.
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On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done.
Zerg will never be able to afford Infestors AND Viper.
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Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this???
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On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this???
uhm no, widow mine can hit air too
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On June 10 2012 01:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:47 blade55555 wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. tbh I wish FF was gone and Fungal only slowed units and not stopped completely. Don't think it'll ever be changed Yeah, I wish they had removed stim too :-P
I think the good news is we should be looking at some Infestor nerfs or removing the unit completely. The swarm hosts will take the role of the infested terrans and abduct is functionally similar to neural parasite. With the addition of the viper cloud that reduces range and ultra charge, fungal growth is really not needed. If blizzard decides to keep it I hope they will either eliminate the damage component or reduce the movement impairment; it has always been a bit silly to have a Tier 2 unit that is effective vs mass T1, mass air, cloaked units, and small numbers of T3...all the while being able to move while burrowed.
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On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this???
I thought Warhounds had a similar AA attack? also did anyone notice the thor air attack in the battle reports seems to be only 2 shots now or so in each case? Or am I mistaken?
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On June 10 2012 01:54 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Zerg will never be able to afford Infestors AND Viper.
You don't need a lot of vipers to make it work. Then again I don't know what'll happen so we will see.
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On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this???
marines?
the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore
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On June 10 2012 01:47 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:42 Snoodles wrote:
I just got a new cheese idea: proxy factory widow mine rush. Around 5 minutes in you should be able to get your mines into the mineral lines. More of the same rush-based Terran is what it appears we will have. I was really hoping for late game options...
And then the other player easily micros away his mine-attached workers from the mineral line, cause there's nothing else going on in the game to pull his attention. The Terran player spends 75m/25g per worker destroyed, the opponent, only 50m, and the opponent probably has a better economy anyway cause he's not invested it in a pointless rush. gg.
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On June 10 2012 01:56 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? uhm no, widow mine can hit air too
But does that really count as AA if it ramdonly selects any unit ? If you're lucky it selects a BL if not a Ling ...
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The building placement template for zerg looks terrible, I hate the way creep looks on the minimap aswell...so pale and quite difficult to see
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On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this???
I'm pretty sure they did, remember this isn't final and I'm fairly sure blizzard is well aware of this problem. However, you still have vikings to control air space and keep the vipers back. See we never saw the terran venture into vikings (the TvZ battle report) which would have been a huge boon for terran. I don't see why you wouldn't have vikings with a mech army anyways, they support the tanks with vision and air dominance. The thor remains as a counter to big flocks of mutas, and yes it's weak to magic box but I think widow-mines, viking support and possibly ravens added would help a great deal. I think mech death balls will have widow-mines littered among their army to be protected from muta flocks.
On June 10 2012 01:58 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:56 Garmer wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? uhm no, widow mine can hit air too But does that really count as AA if it ramdonly selects any unit ? If you're lucky you select a BL if not a Ling ...
I'm guessing you will have an option to turn off auto-cast and maybe tell the mine which unit to target, I would hope something like that is added. But even if that isn't an option, it will require terran to use their mines more carefully, instead of being blind with them. The more decision making needed the better, and if zerg sacs a ling, you learn from the mistake and put a hellion out there to cover the mine.
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On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore
Marines is something you don't have if you play a mechnical composition ... i mean yeah you could build them but they'd be horribly upgraded and lose to just about everything.
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On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done.
Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options.
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On June 10 2012 02:00 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore Marines is something you don't have if you play a mechnical composition ... i mean yeah you could build them but they'd be horribly upgrades.
Get vikings.
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On June 10 2012 01:54 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Zerg will never be able to afford Infestors AND Viper.
Even now Zergs are building up a lot of gas and minerals. I don't think Zergs will be as limited as we would like to think
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On June 10 2012 01:57 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:54 Solo Terran wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. Once again the Thor is the only Terran mech anti air. It wasn't good in WoL and it's not good in HoTS.
Add on top of that the fact that they are HUGE targets for vipers to abduct, Zerg can just abduct all your thors into zerglings and then bam you have 0 anti air GG.
Did no one at Blizzard think of this??? marines? the reason why muta isn't so viable now is purely because players are getting better at defending muta with just marines and doesn't force as much missile turrets anymore
Because 0/0, No-Stim, No-Combat Shield Marines are totally gonna save the mutha fuckin day.
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On June 10 2012 01:42 Snoodles wrote:
I just got a new cheese idea: proxy factory widow mine rush. Around 5 minutes in you should be able to get your mines into the mineral lines.
75 min and 25 gas to kill 1 probe? not too smart. The explosion is super duper easy to micro your probes to avoid splash in early game....like real easy. I'm there by the way. It has way more potential when there is 15 of them in the field in late game where its really really hard to pull all of your units out to avoid splash
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On June 10 2012 02:01 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 01:53 mastergriggy wrote:On June 10 2012 01:45 zmansman17 wrote:On June 09 2012 23:55 SarcasmMonster wrote:A bit sad they didn't take the opportunity to redesign some of the annoying aspects of WOL like Force Fields, Fungals, Concussive Shell, etc. Now would be the time Agreed. I only can hope that someday fungal will not inhibit movement completely, so that we could get passed chain fungal with impunity. Fungal plus the Viper's other ability are going to be very devastating to terran (more so than protoss I'd imagine). It seems like the zerg has a lot more options late game, but I guess terran has to take advantage of heavy early game pressure to get things done. Yeah I think their goal was to make Terran the early game race. However, even with WoL, that would appear to be their goal that Terran has to win in the early game. I wanted there to be late game options.
well BCs will have a speed boost, that will greatly increase it's durability. I hope in a future build they address the raven, give it some kind of lock down ability or possibly irradiate from BW instead of hunter seeker.
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EPT
