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On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 s3rp wrote:
What really funny here is people basically suggest Terran to build Air/Mech and Bio units combined not considering there's no way to upgrade everything well enough to compete with armies that only need 1 or 2 sets of Upgrades. Upgrades are fucking important for everything. bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marine to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong. I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd.
I have to agree. I still find it hilarious that other players are trying to excite Terrans about HotS. I had a bunch of friends on battlenet try to do just this. But in the end, it's ridiculous and I've never been more dis-pleased by what I've seen.
I've worked too hard for 5 seasons to get rank 1 master and now I will not be playing Terran anymore in HotS. There's NOTHING to hang your hat on as Terran in HotS. Plus, our race has endured continual nerfs for so long now that this is just a slap in the face after everything else.
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On June 10 2012 02:30 mastergriggy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:24 Strike_ wrote:
This new "hydralisk" unit seems pretty cool. Too bad it's hive tech. They still looked like they melted to Colossus, but maybe they will have a much stronger role in TvZ late game.
Sure they melt to Colossi, but with Viper pull and Ultras to tank damage...
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If mines don't deal friendly damage then that is clearly retarded. They have 6 range. I'll put those things literally everywhere and laugh as everything blows up.
You guys can't be serious with mines and Thors being good enough mobile anti air. Thors are fucking HUGE and vipers will abduct them even if you have vikings or not.
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On June 10 2012 02:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 s3rp wrote:
What really funny here is people basically suggest Terran to build Air/Mech and Bio units combined not considering there's no way to upgrade everything well enough to compete with armies that only need 1 or 2 sets of Upgrades. Upgrades are fucking important for everything. bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marines to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? Drops? I mean, marines will still be good at drops and its not like drone/probes are getting buffed. Stim and combat shields are that that pricey. We may not see the marine blobs we see in the current game, but I am sure marines will have their place.
Dropping Marines if you're hopelessly behind on upgrades against anything is just wasting supply. Marines fucking suck without equal upgrades.
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Wondering. What if you kill the unit wih a mine attached? Does the mine dud or does it explode as the unit dies as well?
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Terran is ruined at the end of WoL and looks even worse in the HotS beta, GJ Blizzard ruining SC2's coolest race.
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On June 10 2012 02:31 Solo Terran wrote:
If mines don't deal friendly damage then that is clearly retarded. They have 6 range. I'll put those things literally everywhere and laugh as everything blows up.
You guys can't be serious with mines and Thors being good enough mobile anti air. Thors are fucking HUGE and vipers will abduct them even if you have vikings or not.
Putting them literally everywhere is impossible as they cost supply. Even if they didn't I'm not sure all the money on the map would be enough to put them literally everywhere.
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On June 10 2012 02:26 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:19 Solo Terran wrote:
Guys bio will be absolute shit versus Zerg in HoTS. Fungal + Blinding cloud + Anything destroys all bio. On top of that our tanks will be getting abducted while that is happening. Bio will only be viable early game. Haha yeah it seems pretty hard to believe that Terran will be able to contend with Zerg. The Binding cloud + Fungal combination seems brutal. And let's not forget the ultralisk charge!
if I had infinite gas im sure I could have a nice combination of units and abilities too
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On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 s3rp wrote:
What really funny here is people basically suggest Terran to build Air/Mech and Bio units combined not considering there's no way to upgrade everything well enough to compete with armies that only need 1 or 2 sets of Upgrades. Upgrades are fucking important for everything. bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marine to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong. I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd.
the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta.
you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it.
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On June 10 2012 02:32 AXygnus wrote:
Wondering. What if you kill the unit wih a mine attached? Does the mine dud or does it explode as the unit dies as well?
Kennigit said it doesn't explode if its killed.
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On June 10 2012 02:31 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:24 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 s3rp wrote:
What really funny here is people basically suggest Terran to build Air/Mech and Bio units combined not considering there's no way to upgrade everything well enough to compete with armies that only need 1 or 2 sets of Upgrades. Upgrades are fucking important for everything. bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marines to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? Drops? I mean, marines will still be good at drops and its not like drone/probes are getting buffed. Stim and combat shields are that that pricey. We may not see the marine blobs we see in the current game, but I am sure marines will have their place. Dropping Marines if you're hopelessly behind on upgrades against anything is just wasting supply. Marines fucking suck without equal upgrades.
Yep. Another misconception that has been perpetuated by players is "make marines". But marines rarely win a game for you if you are behind. They are countered by nearly every late game unit. I would rather have cracklings or chargelots any day.
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On June 10 2012 02:33 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:32 AXygnus wrote:
Wondering. What if you kill the unit wih a mine attached? Does the mine dud or does it explode as the unit dies as well? Kennigit said it doesn't explode if its killed.
Wait so players could just kill their own units to prevent the mines from going off? Wow.
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On June 10 2012 02:23 zmansman17 wrote:
A few questions about the widow mine to those at MLG:
1) If a unit burrows after being timed with the mine, is aoe eliminated?
2) If a unit hits a mine and then is loaded into an overlord, will the overlord explode as well?
3) If you neural parasite a unit can you walk it into a mine?
4) Can changelings trigger mines and then be walked into opponent's army?
5) What happens if a unit is killed before the timer of the mine goes off?
And the most important question not related to the widow mine:
Can new units in HoTs dance?
quoting so more ppl can see these great/interesting questions and hopefully answer some!
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After reading most of the comments:
- Blizzard gives protoss a harass unit, better defence, an option to transport army back.
- Blizzard gives zerg a unit that can pull tanks out of the siegeline + dark swarm + a crazy ultralisk
- Blizzard gives terran a 1a mech unit (warhound), a spidermine that can be okay lategame and a battle hellion that is actually not so strong.
>>> Thanks to these changes:
1) TvP will still be bio only, since mech really sucks (sorry guys, battle hellion won't save us), but this time it will be even worse then in WOL: harass unit for protoss + recall back when caught in a bad possition = pure nightmare.
2) TvZ will be tank rine medivac marauder and maybe some warhounds. Tanks and key units will be pulled out the army by vipers. Dark swarm will own bio. Ultralisks destroy terrans already (+ Show Spoiler +watch stephano vs polt, where polt was not behind but still saw his army melting
Pure mech in tvz won't be possible, or do you really believe that thors, vikings and marines will be enough as anti air? Vikings vs muta's suck. Marines need grades, stim and shields (= gas not spent on mech). The thor is good vs mutas when the mutas clump. When they magic box, you will need a big amount of thors (= huge amount of gas, gas not spent to mines, warhounds >>> needed vs ultralisks).
This is how it would be if the game was released today. I believe blizzard will fix it, but a lot of changes will have to be made!
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On June 10 2012 02:35 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:33 Firesilver wrote:On June 10 2012 02:32 AXygnus wrote:
Wondering. What if you kill the unit wih a mine attached? Does the mine dud or does it explode as the unit dies as well? Kennigit said it doesn't explode if its killed. Wait so players could just kill their own units to prevent the mines from going off? Wow.
Seems so. :/
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On June 10 2012 02:32 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:31 Solo Terran wrote:
If mines don't deal friendly damage then that is clearly retarded. They have 6 range. I'll put those things literally everywhere and laugh as everything blows up.
You guys can't be serious with mines and Thors being good enough mobile anti air. Thors are fucking HUGE and vipers will abduct them even if you have vikings or not. Putting them literally everywhere is impossible as they cost supply. Even if they didn't I'm not sure all the money on the map would be enough to put them literally everywhere.
Am I crazy? Or are fast moving moveable mines with 6 range that deal 200 splash damage and do 0 damage to your own army absolutely ridiculous? The only unit zerg can use to deal with them are Brood Lords no? We saw how they can work against swarm hosts.
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Canada11372 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:28 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:25 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 Firesilver wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Are mutas even scary with the new mine? Widow 1-hit ko mutas. Way better than Turrets. What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? Someone said earlier in this thread it doesn't do friendly damage IIRC. this seems stupid to me. Nukes inflict friendly damage, as do seeker missiles. Why implement a random inconsistency? urgh.. I think it's to prevent blobs of roaches just to clear out minefields then suicide into the terran army. Or blobs of overlords picking up the mines and decimating all medivacs/vikings. Or when mutas magic box a mech army and get a few mines attached to them, they won't decimate the vikings while cleaning up the thors. I think it's fair, the mine would be too big of a risk if it caused friendly fire. I think friendly fire would only work if the mine exploded immediately upon contact.
Yeah, I think as long as it has a timer, especially a ten second timer (that's forever in SC2 battles), friendly fire just wouldn't make sense. They would become your own worst enemy of creating suicide bomber for the other player to send at you. You'd probably be better off latching the mines to your own stimmed marauders and sending them forward.
They really need to stop beating around the bush and just acknowledge that these aren't new ideas, just complicated iterations of a far simpler and effective ability. It just seems their unit designs need to go through such crazy contortions just to recreate the same unit interactions/ roles, but be 'completely new.' Just embrace what they are already doing.
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On June 10 2012 02:35 Snowbear wrote:After reading most of the comments: - Blizzard gives protoss a harass unit, better defence, an option to transport army back. - Blizzard gives zerg a unit that can pull tanks out of the siegeline + dark swarm + a crazy ultralisk - Blizzard gives terran a 1a mech unit (warhound), a spidermine that can be okay lategame and a battle hellion that is actually not so strong. >>> Thanks to these changes: 1) TvP will still be bio only, since mech really sucks (sorry guys, battle hellion won't save us), but this time it will be even worse then in WOL: harass unit for protoss + recall back when caught in a bad possition = pure nightmare. 2) TvZ will be tank rine medivac marauder and maybe some warhounds. Tanks and key units will be pulled out the army by vipers. Dark swarm will own bio. Ultralisks destroy terrans already ( + Show Spoiler +watch stephano vs polt, where polt was not behind but still saw his army melting ), and with their burrow trick they will be much better. Broodlord + infestor will be even more funny since the only anti-air is: thor, marine, viking, bc. A combination of broodlord + infestor + viper (darkswarm + pulling things out of army) will be unbeatable. Pure mech in tvz won't be possible, or do you really believe that thors, vikings and marines will be enough as anti air? Vikings vs muta's suck. Marines need grades, stim and shields (= gas not spent on mech). The thor is good vs mutas when the mutas clump. When they magic box, you will need a big amount of thors (= huge amount of gas, gas not spent to mines, warhounds >>> needed vs ultralisks). This is how it would be if the game was released today. I believe blizzard will fix it, but a lot of changes will have to be made!
Yes, it is too early to tell but these assessments seem to be accurate, if the game were released today.
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Having rewatched the battle reports, I have to say I think most of the people on these forums are bad at judging range and distances. It seems really unlikely the Widow Mines have an attachment range of 6, and there is NO WAY IN HELL the splash radius is 3-4. Radius 4 is the size of a Guardian Shield for fuck's sake. I'd say 1.5 is more on the mark.
Also, Abduct range is clearly better than 7. It looks to be 9.
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I dont know why everyone thinks the matches are scripted. Remember when David Kim accidentally flew a tempest into a bunch of hyrdas for no reason and lost it? The games aren't exactly pro caliber. Also Day9 clearly didn't rehearse because when he still hadn't seen the Nexus cannon ability he kept thinking it was the tempest's projectiles.
Blizzard has in-house tournaments every week and some of their balance designers are actually pretty good. They've probably just cherry picked the best replays for these videos. People are likely playing with the new units since they're cool so there are plenty of replays where they all get showcased.
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EPT
