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On June 09 2012 19:06 BrosephBrostar wrote:
So the new mines are supposed to be like spider mines, but one of them costs more than an entire vulture which came with 3 mines for free. Are people really going to make these?
If a 75/25 unit can take out a 100/100 unit, with the added potential bonus of taking like 20 100/100 units?
Yes, I would say that it might be interesting to make such a unit.
Fun fact: spider mine in future expansions mineral lines.
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I know the warhound and battle hellion aren't the most exciting units but I still think they'll be functionally important as mech will become a staple of terran play.
Still, as a T player I do look at that and think 'well FUCK what do I make against these new zerg compositions' x)
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On June 09 2012 18:11 SolidMoose wrote:
2 minutes on preordain sounds like a really freaking long time.
Also I'm surprised no ones mentioned the fact that the energy recharge makes templar broken. 8 templar can throw down initial storms, and then have up to another SIXTEEN. And if they get emp'd before an engagement, they can recharge after the EMPs are wasted.
Well the energy recharge has obviously energy cost and probably cooldown, so you could recharge 1-3 templar, not THAT big of a deal, considering you can only have one mothership core.
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On June 09 2012 17:58 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 17:55 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:29 Snowbear wrote:
What worries me about TvZ mech is anti-air. You will have to go thor heavy again...
The warhound really needs an air attack imo! I heared Marines are pretty good -_- Marines in a mech composition? You know that you would need: - stim - combat shield - upgrades for bio Vikings obviously do not counter mutalisks. Atm magic boxed mutalisks do pretty well vs thors. ...
Mech is baaaaaaaaad! You will always go for Mass-Marines in TvZ - they are just way to good against everything.
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People are seriously underestimating the widow mines. Depending on the AI (assuming that they target the most high priority unit in range, but even if they don't they're still pretty decent) they're extremely useful at all phases of the game (assuming they don't give it friendly fire because that would be a disaster. LOL).
Please note that one thing they have over BW mines is no over-kill/over-target. You can't just run one speedlot into a mine field and have it activate a bunch of mines like in BW. You want to take out 5 mines, you need to sacrifice 5 zealots. So widow mines will always trade either efficiently or fairly even vs everything except for Lings/marines/workers (but only if you avoid splash), free units and hallucinations. They pretty much shut down all forms of harassment in the early game including Banshees, Medivac drops, Mutas, Burrowed Infestors, Phoenixes, Oracles, Warp prisms etc.
They're really strong at holding most forms of early all-ins/timing attacks. They're good vs almost any Protoss bust because they trade efficiently vs pretty much everything (Stalkers, Sentries, DT's, Immortals, Collossus, and Void Rays). Like I said before, they shut down Banshees, which hurts most one base terran builds. They trade "cost even" but "supply efficiently" vs roaches, so they should be good vs roach busts.
The only forms of early aggression that they don't counter are ling/bane (unless you get lucky with the splash), proxy mauraders (because they hit too fast), maybe proxy void rays (not sure about the timing on this one), and a few other super-fast rushes.
You can't just mine up the map because they cost supply, but having a bunch of widow mines in your army ready to be strategically positioned will be very strong. And they only get more cost effective as your opponent techs up. And they're good in base-race situations. So they're basically all-around awesome.
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On June 09 2012 18:08 Mandalor wrote:A little sad about the new protoss units/abilities  Again, an a-move unit (tempest) and a gimmicky harass unit that might be useful, but it won't help in combat. Why does blizzard refuse to give me a unit that benefits greatly from micro (e.g. the reaver)
Blink stalkers. Sentries. Templars. And even the Oracle. All need great micro.
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One thing to consider is you don't really need upgrades on Mines for them to be effective as the game progresses (and it will probably stay that way even with patches). So I think you can decide to switch to some reactored factory(ies) at any point in time regardless of your current tech, and it won't be a bad choice.
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@22 Range Tempest
If you play on Steppes of War the Tempest can attack your opponents natural from the point where it pops out of the stargate ^_^
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the "give energy" thing on the mothership core. is it available on the whole map or only near the core?
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lol at Ultras' charge 
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One of the more cost effective ways of dealing with widow mines in TvT will be to build one or two reapers and go around the map scanning the attack paths for them because they're light and reapers do a crapload of damage to light.
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On June 09 2012 19:29 Decendos wrote:
the "give energy" thing on the mothership core. is it available on the whole map or only near the core?
Only near the core, in range ~7, from what I've heard.
On June 09 2012 19:29 TheBrow wrote:
@22 Range Tempest
If you play on Steppes of War the Tempest can attack your opponents natural from the point where it pops out of the stargate ^_^
Not sure if you're trolling, that map was so terribly small I could actually see that happening, lol.
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in my opinion that "give energy" should be "recharge shields" imo.
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that battle report was sick. Tempest at 22 range doesn't look imba at all when you have vipers and speed hydras. I knew speed hydras were going to be good, but that zerg had ZERO upgrades which is why davidkim was able to win. Loving the new changes, everything looks great.
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i am looking forward for the beta... lets see which race will be OP xD
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On June 09 2012 19:23 cablesc wrote:
People are seriously underestimating the widow mines. Depending on the AI (assuming that they target the most high priority unit in range, but even if they don't they're still pretty decent) they're extremely useful at all phases of the game (assuming they don't give it friendly fire because that would be a disaster. LOL).
Please note that one thing they have over BW mines is no over-kill/over-target. You can't just run one speedlot into a mine field and have it activate a bunch of mines like in BW. You want to take out 5 mines, you need to sacrifice 5 zealots. So widow mines will always trade either efficiently or fairly even vs everything except for Lings/marines/workers (but only if you avoid splash), free units and hallucinations. They pretty much shut down all forms of harassment in the early game including Banshees, Medivac drops, Mutas, Burrowed Infestors, Phoenixes, Oracles, Warp prisms etc.
They're really strong at holding most forms of early all-ins/timing attacks. They're good vs almost any Protoss bust because they trade efficiently vs pretty much everything (Stalkers, Sentries, DT's, Immortals, Collossus, and Void Rays). Like I said before, they shut down Banshees, which hurts most one base terran builds. They trade "cost even" but "supply efficiently" vs roaches, so they should be good vs roach busts.
The only forms of early aggression that they don't counter are ling/bane (unless you get lucky with the splash), proxy mauraders (because they hit too fast), maybe proxy void rays (not sure about the timing on this one), and a few other super-fast rushes.
You can't just mine up the map because they cost supply, but having a bunch of widow mines in your army ready to be strategically positioned will be very strong. And they only get more cost effective as your opponent techs up. And they're good in base-race situations. So they're basically all-around awesome.
Widow mines are totally useless against blings/infestors or zealots/stalkers/ht/colossi front attack, which are the norms in each MU.
Not cost-ineffective, useless.
Investing into them means not investing in a strong straight army which will, thus, get annihilated in 10-15 seconds against a zerg/protoss a-move.
It's only after you will have lost everything miserably that maybe 2-3 remaining zealots/lings remaining will explode inside the protoss/zerg army, even though the semi-pro/pro will probably still find time to separate these units once the battle is won.
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uhm what actually puzzles me:
- was the roach deleted in HotS (since the zerg player never made any)?
- did the hydra get buffed in terms of gas cost or supply cost?
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On June 09 2012 19:53 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 19:23 cablesc wrote:
People are seriously underestimating the widow mines. Depending on the AI (assuming that they target the most high priority unit in range, but even if they don't they're still pretty decent) they're extremely useful at all phases of the game (assuming they don't give it friendly fire because that would be a disaster. LOL).
Please note that one thing they have over BW mines is no over-kill/over-target. You can't just run one speedlot into a mine field and have it activate a bunch of mines like in BW. You want to take out 5 mines, you need to sacrifice 5 zealots. So widow mines will always trade either efficiently or fairly even vs everything except for Lings/marines/workers (but only if you avoid splash), free units and hallucinations. They pretty much shut down all forms of harassment in the early game including Banshees, Medivac drops, Mutas, Burrowed Infestors, Phoenixes, Oracles, Warp prisms etc.
They're really strong at holding most forms of early all-ins/timing attacks. They're good vs almost any Protoss bust because they trade efficiently vs pretty much everything (Stalkers, Sentries, DT's, Immortals, Collossus, and Void Rays). Like I said before, they shut down Banshees, which hurts most one base terran builds. They trade "cost even" but "supply efficiently" vs roaches, so they should be good vs roach busts.
The only forms of early aggression that they don't counter are ling/bane (unless you get lucky with the splash), proxy mauraders (because they hit too fast), maybe proxy void rays (not sure about the timing on this one), and a few other super-fast rushes.
You can't just mine up the map because they cost supply, but having a bunch of widow mines in your army ready to be strategically positioned will be very strong. And they only get more cost effective as your opponent techs up. And they're good in base-race situations. So they're basically all-around awesome. Widow mines are totally useless against blings/infestors or zealots/stalkers/ht/colossi front attack, which are the norms in each MU. Not cost-ineffective, useless. Investing into them means not investing in a strong straight army which will, thus, get annihilated in 10-15 seconds against a zerg/protoss a-move. It's only after you will have lost everything miserably that maybe 2-3 remaining zealots/lings remaining will explode inside the protoss/zerg army, even though the semi-pro/pro will probably still find time to separate these units once the battle is won.
What do you mean "investing". They're cheaper than marauders, they build off a reactor. You can pump out 6 of them every minute off one factory for 450 minerals and 150 gas. That's what, 9 marines? They cost 1 supply.
You don't need 20 of them to change the behaviour of a protoss. 5-6 of them are enough of a threat that it actually makes a difference. Scan the toss army, focus fire the observers and all of a sudden that deathball is a massive liability because the toss can no longer engage on their terms. While they're panic microing to get the 6 ticking time bombs out of their army, you're kiting with MMM and sniping colossi.
It's a huge, huge advantage. It also murders all protoss early pressure that doesn't come with an observer. They basically can't afford not to go robo now if you get a factory.
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On June 09 2012 19:26 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 18:08 Mandalor wrote:A little sad about the new protoss units/abilities Again, an a-move unit (tempest) and a gimmicky harass unit that might be useful, but it won't help in combat. Why does blizzard refuse to give me a unit that benefits greatly from micro (e.g. the reaver) Blink stalkers. Sentries. Templars. And even the Oracle. All need great micro.
Plus you won't be a-moving your range-upgraded Tempest if you want to get real use out of it, you'll be finding locations where it's versatile but not too vulnerable then finding ways to give it vision of places it can harass.
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As a random player, I'm most hyped for the Zerg changes. Hydras were my favorite unit in BW, I hope they get more viable with the speed upgrade. Swarm Host and Viper also seems to be a good addition to the Zerg arsenal.
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EPT
