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On June 09 2012 19:13 RolleMcKnolle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 18:11 SolidMoose wrote:
2 minutes on preordain sounds like a really freaking long time.
Also I'm surprised no ones mentioned the fact that the energy recharge makes templar broken. 8 templar can throw down initial storms, and then have up to another SIXTEEN. And if they get emp'd before an engagement, they can recharge after the EMPs are wasted. Well the energy recharge has obviously energy cost and probably cooldown, so you could recharge 1-3 templar, not THAT big of a deal, considering you can only have one mothership core.
Yup, all the time people are judging the changes based on the assumption that every player at all stages will have everything in abundance.
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When I first read about the new super long range of Tempest, I kind of liked it. But seeing it in action, not so much. Still, the idea of an expensive and very long range protoss ship seems kind of nice to me. It's a great way to get rid of a tank fortification, and carriers were never good at it because of marines killing interceptors and vikings having great range. With an ultra ranged ship like this, it forces the terran do actually do something if he wants his tanks to survive.
So, what do you guys think of repurposing the void ray to fill this job? It was designed as an anti capital ship thing, but never worked well. Today it's just "the protoss air that can shoot ground", and nobody uses it because it's not so great. A void ray with very long range to break fortifications both feels good and looks cool to me. It should lose its shoot-on-the-move but keep its chargeup, to make sure terran reacts.
Tempest can then be redesigned to "the protoss air that can shoot ground", or traded back for carriers.
edit: and you can be sure that tank fortifications will be a thing in TvP now that they have warhounds and battle hellions.
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reaper still seems useless(in fact without bombs it looked like worse) but i liked other terran units. vipers abduct has horrible casting animation, doesn't fit the theme in any way imo. hydras look more viable, we'll see how ultra charge demolish siege lines.
and the hots games we saw at mlg are obviously scripted
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
The TvZ battle report was interesting, but pretty underwhelming from a T perspective outside of one spectacular Mine hit. Other than that though it felt that play was pretty much identical to current mech play in terms of effective space control, harass, and composition, while it got kicked around by completely new Zerg comps.
Reaper regen definitely doesn't look like making the unit much more common, especially if it needs to be upgraded.
Viper is going to cause so much rage hah. Yoink got all your stuff. I like seeing Hydras kill shit. ChargeUltras are insanity, I'm not sure that's something that will last.
Poor siege tanks are getting slaughtered so far this expansion =p
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On June 09 2012 17:48 TheBrow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 17:14 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:10 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:08 ReadySetFire wrote:
WHERE CAN I FIND THE PVT BATTLEREPORT Where can I find any Battlereports? I only saw the TvZ part.. You mean PvZ? TvZ... casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson...
*grabs you by the shirt and starts shaking violently*
WHERE DID YOU FIND IT
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On June 09 2012 20:16 ReadySetFire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 17:48 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:14 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:10 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:08 ReadySetFire wrote:
WHERE CAN I FIND THE PVT BATTLEREPORT Where can I find any Battlereports? I only saw the TvZ part.. You mean PvZ? TvZ... casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson... *grabs you by the shirt and starts shaking violently* WHERE DID YOU FIND IT
Seriously. The youtube page just has PvZ and no amount of googling is helping me find the TvZ or TvP.
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On June 09 2012 20:16 ReadySetFire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 17:48 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:14 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:10 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:08 ReadySetFire wrote:
WHERE CAN I FIND THE PVT BATTLEREPORT Where can I find any Battlereports? I only saw the TvZ part.. You mean PvZ? TvZ... casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson... *grabs you by the shirt and starts shaking violently* WHERE DID YOU FIND IT
MLG rebroadcast Day 1, around 2:10:00
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On June 09 2012 19:53 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 19:23 cablesc wrote:
People are seriously underestimating the widow mines. Depending on the AI (assuming that they target the most high priority unit in range, but even if they don't they're still pretty decent) they're extremely useful at all phases of the game (assuming they don't give it friendly fire because that would be a disaster. LOL).
Please note that one thing they have over BW mines is no over-kill/over-target. You can't just run one speedlot into a mine field and have it activate a bunch of mines like in BW. You want to take out 5 mines, you need to sacrifice 5 zealots. So widow mines will always trade either efficiently or fairly even vs everything except for Lings/marines/workers (but only if you avoid splash), free units and hallucinations. They pretty much shut down all forms of harassment in the early game including Banshees, Medivac drops, Mutas, Burrowed Infestors, Phoenixes, Oracles, Warp prisms etc.
They're really strong at holding most forms of early all-ins/timing attacks. They're good vs almost any Protoss bust because they trade efficiently vs pretty much everything (Stalkers, Sentries, DT's, Immortals, Collossus, and Void Rays). Like I said before, they shut down Banshees, which hurts most one base terran builds. They trade "cost even" but "supply efficiently" vs roaches, so they should be good vs roach busts.
The only forms of early aggression that they don't counter are ling/bane (unless you get lucky with the splash), proxy mauraders (because they hit too fast), maybe proxy void rays (not sure about the timing on this one), and a few other super-fast rushes.
You can't just mine up the map because they cost supply, but having a bunch of widow mines in your army ready to be strategically positioned will be very strong. And they only get more cost effective as your opponent techs up. And they're good in base-race situations. So they're basically all-around awesome. Widow mines are totally useless against blings/infestors or zealots/stalkers/ht/colossi front attack, which are the norms in each MU. Not cost-ineffective, useless. Investing into them means not investing in a strong straight army which will, thus, get annihilated in 10-15 seconds against a zerg/protoss a-move. It's only after you will have lost everything miserably that maybe 2-3 remaining zealots/lings remaining will explode inside the protoss/zerg army, even though the semi-pro/pro will probably still find time to separate these units once the battle is won.
I already said it wasn't so great vs banelings, but you can't expect a unit to be perfect. That's why you need to scout and counter your opponent.
As for Protoss composition, it doesn't matter if they split their units, widow mines cost less and trade efficiently vs everything in the protoss arsenal. Killing one stalker for one widow mine is totally worth it. Widow mines have 5-6 range and require detection, so they're not that easy to get rid of. So if you mine up in front of your bunkers, scan to get rid of observers, and focus fire the units that don't get targeted by mines then the Toss player cannot trade cost-effectively.
And like I said it'll shut down harassment. At worst, you can just pump out a handful of mines stick them behind your mineral line and be safe from banshees/oracles etc. So no matter what, it's not useless.
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On June 09 2012 20:19 Isualin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 20:16 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:48 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:14 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:10 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:08 ReadySetFire wrote:
WHERE CAN I FIND THE PVT BATTLEREPORT Where can I find any Battlereports? I only saw the TvZ part.. You mean PvZ? TvZ... casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson... *grabs you by the shirt and starts shaking violently* WHERE DID YOU FIND IT MLG rebroadcast Day 1, around 2:10:00
Crap tons of love! Thank you sooooooo much!
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On June 09 2012 20:01 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 19:53 SiroKO wrote:On June 09 2012 19:23 cablesc wrote:
People are seriously underestimating the widow mines. Depending on the AI (assuming that they target the most high priority unit in range, but even if they don't they're still pretty decent) they're extremely useful at all phases of the game (assuming they don't give it friendly fire because that would be a disaster. LOL).
Please note that one thing they have over BW mines is no over-kill/over-target. You can't just run one speedlot into a mine field and have it activate a bunch of mines like in BW. You want to take out 5 mines, you need to sacrifice 5 zealots. So widow mines will always trade either efficiently or fairly even vs everything except for Lings/marines/workers (but only if you avoid splash), free units and hallucinations. They pretty much shut down all forms of harassment in the early game including Banshees, Medivac drops, Mutas, Burrowed Infestors, Phoenixes, Oracles, Warp prisms etc.
They're really strong at holding most forms of early all-ins/timing attacks. They're good vs almost any Protoss bust because they trade efficiently vs pretty much everything (Stalkers, Sentries, DT's, Immortals, Collossus, and Void Rays). Like I said before, they shut down Banshees, which hurts most one base terran builds. They trade "cost even" but "supply efficiently" vs roaches, so they should be good vs roach busts.
The only forms of early aggression that they don't counter are ling/bane (unless you get lucky with the splash), proxy mauraders (because they hit too fast), maybe proxy void rays (not sure about the timing on this one), and a few other super-fast rushes.
You can't just mine up the map because they cost supply, but having a bunch of widow mines in your army ready to be strategically positioned will be very strong. And they only get more cost effective as your opponent techs up. And they're good in base-race situations. So they're basically all-around awesome. Widow mines are totally useless against blings/infestors or zealots/stalkers/ht/colossi front attack, which are the norms in each MU. Not cost-ineffective, useless. Investing into them means not investing in a strong straight army which will, thus, get annihilated in 10-15 seconds against a zerg/protoss a-move. It's only after you will have lost everything miserably that maybe 2-3 remaining zealots/lings remaining will explode inside the protoss/zerg army, even though the semi-pro/pro will probably still find time to separate these units once the battle is won. What do you mean "investing". They're cheaper than marauders, they build off a reactor. You can pump out 6 of them every minute off one factory for 450 minerals and 150 gas. That's what, 9 marines? They cost 1 supply. You don't need 20 of them to change the behaviour of a protoss. 5-6 of them are enough of a threat that it actually makes a difference. Scan the toss army, focus fire the observers and all of a sudden that deathball is a massive liability because the toss can no longer engage on their terms. While they're panic microing to get the 6 ticking time bombs out of their army, you're kiting with MMM and sniping colossi. It's a huge, huge advantage. It also murders all protoss early pressure that doesn't come with an observer. They basically can't afford not to go robo now if you get a factory.
That's 6-7 marines plus 1-2 medivac for units which wouldn't deal any damage during the battle.
A battle is often decided in the first seconds because this is the point of the battle where there's the most dps for both armies, if there's a slight imbalance, there will be a butterfly effect and you will get wrecked.
It also doesn't murder Protoss early pressure since when you're going all-in as a Protoss, you're quite happy to trade a zealot or stalker against 75 mineral 25 gaz.
Defending cost-effectively army-wise against a all-in means not defending properly and losing the game.
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On June 09 2012 20:19 Isualin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 20:16 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:48 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:14 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:10 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:08 ReadySetFire wrote:
WHERE CAN I FIND THE PVT BATTLEREPORT Where can I find any Battlereports? I only saw the TvZ part.. You mean PvZ? TvZ... casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson... *grabs you by the shirt and starts shaking violently* WHERE DID YOU FIND IT MLG rebroadcast Day 1, around 2:10:00
it seems like i am just too close to love you <3
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What cablesc says is true though, 1-2 mines in each mineral line and oracles/warp prisms are just rendered useless.
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Lol blizzard is just amazing.No one likes the colossus,everyone wants it to go away.
"Hmmm what should we do for the protoss in the next expansion...oh,I know!BIGGER LAZERS,MORE RANGE.FUCK YEA!!!!!!"
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On June 09 2012 20:25 ReadySetFire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 20:19 Isualin wrote:On June 09 2012 20:16 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:48 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:14 ReadySetFire wrote:On June 09 2012 17:10 TheBrow wrote:On June 09 2012 17:08 ReadySetFire wrote:
WHERE CAN I FIND THE PVT BATTLEREPORT Where can I find any Battlereports? I only saw the TvZ part.. You mean PvZ? TvZ... casted by Day9 and Rob Simpson... *grabs you by the shirt and starts shaking violently* WHERE DID YOU FIND IT MLG rebroadcast Day 1, around 2:10:00 it seems like i am just too close to love you <3
Wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub wub.
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On June 09 2012 20:29 Ammanas wrote:
What cablesc says is true though, 1-2 mines in each mineral line and oracles/warp prisms are just rendered useless.
Just you wait, they said they're experimenting with friendly fire imagine when your oracle gets latched on to and then just heads straight for your mineral line.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Wow now the reaper is even more useless
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On June 09 2012 20:30 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 20:29 Ammanas wrote:
What cablesc says is true though, 1-2 mines in each mineral line and oracles/warp prisms are just rendered useless. Just you wait, they said they're experimenting with friendly fire imagine when your oracle gets latched on to and then just heads straight for your mineral line.
If they give the widow mine friendly fire, then I'll admit that it's a fucking joke. But I have more faith in Blizzard than that.
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looking good but I really want them to remove the swarmhost and add lurker insted, it would be so nice with speed hydras  .
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EPT
