|
Even if the spider mine doesn't end up doing max damage, I like how it's a unit that forces your opponent to play attentively and get detection.
|
22 range tempest... How are they expecting zerg to have any air presence in late game with that? I wonder who the "they" are that lose games with it lol.
|
anyone else think terran looks boned? :O
|
On June 09 2012 09:08 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:46 Plansix wrote:On June 09 2012 08:38 Dingobloo wrote:On June 09 2012 08:33 Falling wrote:On June 09 2012 07:48 Splynn wrote:
I think I'm in the vast minority on this... but with the new queen look (I didn't like the way the old queen look), I'm really hoping they tweak the roach a little bit, too. To me it just looks too round and with no real features, I really don't like the way roaches look in general. The new queen is awesome, though. Just wish that the roach could look less like a beachball with spikes.
New queen looks pretty good I think. And I definitely think roach design could use an overhaul. I was just enjoying the unit mix in that battle report and thinking how much better hydra look aesthetically as the core unit rather than the roach. Beachball with spikes it is. But hydra, swarmlord, defiler thingy looked pretty cool. Yeah, staying active with that unit is just can be so valuable. I mean, every time you are able to land the shields onto those minerals- that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction. It’s still a small amount of mining time they won’t be able to access. Rob Simpson from the battle report. Although an interesting idea, this is precisely why I think the oracle harass is not very good similar to FF's. I'm sure it will get balanced. But it will never be the unit interaction like BW storms, reaver shots that were big hits or misses depending on who was faster. Or good map awareness with DTs that didn't trigger an alarm when atttacking workers. But this will always be did I get close enough with out being sniped? If yes, then freeze minerals for x amount of time (x amount being tweaked for balance). If no, then no damage. But it requires very little interaction between units/ players reaction time. Sure taking down minerals requires a reaction, but it's not the same as: Did I get close enough without my shuttle getting sniped? If yes, then quickly unload high templar, unleash 1-2 storms before the opposing player races all his workers away for little to no damage. If the opposing player doesn't react, the entire line of workers get's wiped out. But it's all about who is faster, not just on entry, but also on the attack execution. "that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction." I don't particularly like this idea for a harassment unit. I agree, but this also isn't as effective as normal harassment, without killing the workers you're not preventing the snowball nature of economic development, you're merely removing income temporarily, I don't think it will be a replacement for effective late game harassment. Agreed and people will adapt to the harassment quickly. If you watch the report. the bubbles only have 75 HP and can be focused down quickly. Also the Oracle only has 20 shields and 80 HP. It will die if something looks at it sideways. The thing is I think its the fastest thing in the air and it can block static defense so it could still be very useful. I can also see terrans needing to leave a few units behind to deal with it.
Leave a viking in patrol... profit. The thing is really squishy - just 20/80.
|
|
|
On June 09 2012 09:25 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:08 Adreme wrote:On June 09 2012 08:46 Plansix wrote:On June 09 2012 08:38 Dingobloo wrote:On June 09 2012 08:33 Falling wrote:On June 09 2012 07:48 Splynn wrote:
I think I'm in the vast minority on this... but with the new queen look (I didn't like the way the old queen look), I'm really hoping they tweak the roach a little bit, too. To me it just looks too round and with no real features, I really don't like the way roaches look in general. The new queen is awesome, though. Just wish that the roach could look less like a beachball with spikes.
New queen looks pretty good I think. And I definitely think roach design could use an overhaul. I was just enjoying the unit mix in that battle report and thinking how much better hydra look aesthetically as the core unit rather than the roach. Beachball with spikes it is. But hydra, swarmlord, defiler thingy looked pretty cool. Yeah, staying active with that unit is just can be so valuable. I mean, every time you are able to land the shields onto those minerals- that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction. It’s still a small amount of mining time they won’t be able to access. Rob Simpson from the battle report. Although an interesting idea, this is precisely why I think the oracle harass is not very good similar to FF's. I'm sure it will get balanced. But it will never be the unit interaction like BW storms, reaver shots that were big hits or misses depending on who was faster. Or good map awareness with DTs that didn't trigger an alarm when atttacking workers. But this will always be did I get close enough with out being sniped? If yes, then freeze minerals for x amount of time (x amount being tweaked for balance). If no, then no damage. But it requires very little interaction between units/ players reaction time. Sure taking down minerals requires a reaction, but it's not the same as: Did I get close enough without my shuttle getting sniped? If yes, then quickly unload high templar, unleash 1-2 storms before the opposing player races all his workers away for little to no damage. If the opposing player doesn't react, the entire line of workers get's wiped out. But it's all about who is faster, not just on entry, but also on the attack execution. "that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction." I don't particularly like this idea for a harassment unit. I agree, but this also isn't as effective as normal harassment, without killing the workers you're not preventing the snowball nature of economic development, you're merely removing income temporarily, I don't think it will be a replacement for effective late game harassment. Agreed and people will adapt to the harassment quickly. If you watch the report. the bubbles only have 75 HP and can be focused down quickly. Also the Oracle only has 20 shields and 80 HP. It will die if something looks at it sideways. The thing is I think its the fastest thing in the air and it can block static defense so it could still be very useful. I can also see terrans needing to leave a few units behind to deal with it. Leave a viking in patrol... profit. The thing is really squishy - just 20/80.
Build Missile Turrets even better ... , Missile Turrets deal 24 damage every 0.69 seconds that thing is dead right the second it moves in range.
Seriously the Zerg in the Gameplay Video should've just put up sporecrawlers and the gimmicky oracles would've been totally shutdown and dead weight.
|
On June 09 2012 09:25 Woizit wrote:
22 range tempest... How are they expecting zerg to have any air presence in late game with that? I wonder who the "they" are that lose games with it lol.
Corruptors and Mutalisks? It doesn't do splash damage. Corruptors eat it for breakfast and mutalisks can fly circles around it.
|
On June 09 2012 09:27 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:25 Pr0wler wrote:On June 09 2012 09:08 Adreme wrote:On June 09 2012 08:46 Plansix wrote:On June 09 2012 08:38 Dingobloo wrote:On June 09 2012 08:33 Falling wrote:On June 09 2012 07:48 Splynn wrote:
I think I'm in the vast minority on this... but with the new queen look (I didn't like the way the old queen look), I'm really hoping they tweak the roach a little bit, too. To me it just looks too round and with no real features, I really don't like the way roaches look in general. The new queen is awesome, though. Just wish that the roach could look less like a beachball with spikes.
New queen looks pretty good I think. And I definitely think roach design could use an overhaul. I was just enjoying the unit mix in that battle report and thinking how much better hydra look aesthetically as the core unit rather than the roach. Beachball with spikes it is. But hydra, swarmlord, defiler thingy looked pretty cool. Yeah, staying active with that unit is just can be so valuable. I mean, every time you are able to land the shields onto those minerals- that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction. It’s still a small amount of mining time they won’t be able to access. Rob Simpson from the battle report. Although an interesting idea, this is precisely why I think the oracle harass is not very good similar to FF's. I'm sure it will get balanced. But it will never be the unit interaction like BW storms, reaver shots that were big hits or misses depending on who was faster. Or good map awareness with DTs that didn't trigger an alarm when atttacking workers. But this will always be did I get close enough with out being sniped? If yes, then freeze minerals for x amount of time (x amount being tweaked for balance). If no, then no damage. But it requires very little interaction between units/ players reaction time. Sure taking down minerals requires a reaction, but it's not the same as: Did I get close enough without my shuttle getting sniped? If yes, then quickly unload high templar, unleash 1-2 storms before the opposing player races all his workers away for little to no damage. If the opposing player doesn't react, the entire line of workers get's wiped out. But it's all about who is faster, not just on entry, but also on the attack execution. "that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction." I don't particularly like this idea for a harassment unit. I agree, but this also isn't as effective as normal harassment, without killing the workers you're not preventing the snowball nature of economic development, you're merely removing income temporarily, I don't think it will be a replacement for effective late game harassment. Agreed and people will adapt to the harassment quickly. If you watch the report. the bubbles only have 75 HP and can be focused down quickly. Also the Oracle only has 20 shields and 80 HP. It will die if something looks at it sideways. The thing is I think its the fastest thing in the air and it can block static defense so it could still be very useful. I can also see terrans needing to leave a few units behind to deal with it. Leave a viking in patrol... profit. The thing is really squishy - just 20/80. Build Missile Turrets even better ... , Missile Turrets deal 24 damage every 0.69 seconds that thing is dead right the second it moves in range.
the thing is oracles can go to another angle, so the viking is much better.
Tempest
Possible use I've thought about is:
1. Start attacking enemy's exp with a tempest or more.
2. Meanwhile, position your army perfectly or just well.
3. Your opponent may be forced to attack you, while you have good positioning. Potentially won battle.
or...
1. Snipe infestors or swarm hosts.
It's theory though.
|
On June 09 2012 09:11 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:08 Adreme wrote:On June 09 2012 08:46 Plansix wrote:On June 09 2012 08:38 Dingobloo wrote:On June 09 2012 08:33 Falling wrote:On June 09 2012 07:48 Splynn wrote:
I think I'm in the vast minority on this... but with the new queen look (I didn't like the way the old queen look), I'm really hoping they tweak the roach a little bit, too. To me it just looks too round and with no real features, I really don't like the way roaches look in general. The new queen is awesome, though. Just wish that the roach could look less like a beachball with spikes.
New queen looks pretty good I think. And I definitely think roach design could use an overhaul. I was just enjoying the unit mix in that battle report and thinking how much better hydra look aesthetically as the core unit rather than the roach. Beachball with spikes it is. But hydra, swarmlord, defiler thingy looked pretty cool. Yeah, staying active with that unit is just can be so valuable. I mean, every time you are able to land the shields onto those minerals- that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction. It’s still a small amount of mining time they won’t be able to access. Rob Simpson from the battle report. Although an interesting idea, this is precisely why I think the oracle harass is not very good similar to FF's. I'm sure it will get balanced. But it will never be the unit interaction like BW storms, reaver shots that were big hits or misses depending on who was faster. Or good map awareness with DTs that didn't trigger an alarm when atttacking workers. But this will always be did I get close enough with out being sniped? If yes, then freeze minerals for x amount of time (x amount being tweaked for balance). If no, then no damage. But it requires very little interaction between units/ players reaction time. Sure taking down minerals requires a reaction, but it's not the same as: Did I get close enough without my shuttle getting sniped? If yes, then quickly unload high templar, unleash 1-2 storms before the opposing player races all his workers away for little to no damage. If the opposing player doesn't react, the entire line of workers get's wiped out. But it's all about who is faster, not just on entry, but also on the attack execution. "that’s guaranteed harassment. It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re fast on the reaction." I don't particularly like this idea for a harassment unit. I agree, but this also isn't as effective as normal harassment, without killing the workers you're not preventing the snowball nature of economic development, you're merely removing income temporarily, I don't think it will be a replacement for effective late game harassment. Agreed and people will adapt to the harassment quickly. If you watch the report. the bubbles only have 75 HP and can be focused down quickly. Also the Oracle only has 20 shields and 80 HP. It will die if something looks at it sideways. The thing is I think its the fastest thing in the air and it can block static defense so it could still be very useful. I can also see terrans needing to leave a few units behind to deal with it. They never said that in the vid... source?
That was the old one, I think they replaced that ability with the cloaking.
|
On June 09 2012 09:21 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:19 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:14 obsidia wrote:On June 09 2012 09:00 Vertig0 wrote:
The widow mine looks great, Terran has to figure out the best places to place them, and the opponent has to micro once
really? I cant imagine them being useful under any situation, unless your just playing bronze people all day. Its nice blizzard think about the lower ranked people in development terms, but its certainly doesnt add much to the scene in terms of viability or mixing up current Terran meta When a protoss moves out to attack put mines between his robo and his army. Put mines behind your mineral lines and he loses his 200 gas Oracle for free. I could just place a few Turrets for defense ? The mine right now looks a gigantic gimmick . Why the hell does Terran need another gimmick we already have Ravens/Reapers .Why do we need another Unit with no real use in combat situations ?
I'm glad you agree the oracle is worthless as a harasser. If the mine actually is as bad as you think it is, you are only getting screwed as badly as protoss is.
Beyond that, you can't be cost effectively attacked if your opponent doesn't have detection. That is an unbelievable amount of utility.
|
Is there any possibility to DOWNLOAD the Battle Report?
|
|
|
On June 09 2012 09:30 Kaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:21 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 09:19 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:14 obsidia wrote:On June 09 2012 09:00 Vertig0 wrote:
The widow mine looks great, Terran has to figure out the best places to place them, and the opponent has to micro once
really? I cant imagine them being useful under any situation, unless your just playing bronze people all day. Its nice blizzard think about the lower ranked people in development terms, but its certainly doesnt add much to the scene in terms of viability or mixing up current Terran meta When a protoss moves out to attack put mines between his robo and his army. Put mines behind your mineral lines and he loses his 200 gas Oracle for free. I could just place a few Turrets for defense ? The mine right now looks a gigantic gimmick . Why the hell does Terran need another gimmick we already have Ravens/Reapers .Why do we need another Unit with no real use in combat situations ? I'm glad you agree the oracle is worthless as a harasser. If the mine actually is as bad as you think it is, you are only getting screwed as badly as protoss is. Beyond that, you can't be cost effectively attacked if your opponent doesn't have detection. That is an unbelievable amount of utility.
ANd other than Terran who doesn't build mobile detection units ? Observers,Overseers aren't a big investment.
The one use i found though is it can kinda shutdown Zerg all-ins because those hit before T2 and probably some of the Gateway Chesses.
|
On June 09 2012 09:31 Dvriel wrote:
Is there any possibility to DOWNLOAD the Battle Report?
there are addons for your browser to download youtube videos, firefox for example has the addon "downloadhelper"
|
On June 09 2012 09:29 Seiniyta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:25 Woizit wrote:
22 range tempest... How are they expecting zerg to have any air presence in late game with that? I wonder who the "they" are that lose games with it lol. Corruptors and Mutalisks? It doesn't do splash damage. Corruptors eat it for breakfast and mutalisks can fly circles around it.
Ah they've removed the splash, makes sense, though it makes the attack animation and unit design rather odd for how it's functioning now.
Looking at the video, siege tanks look screwed now with the new units around. I hope they will buff it up considerably.
|
On June 09 2012 09:21 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:19 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:14 obsidia wrote:On June 09 2012 09:00 Vertig0 wrote:
The widow mine looks great, Terran has to figure out the best places to place them, and the opponent has to micro once
really? I cant imagine them being useful under any situation, unless your just playing bronze people all day. Its nice blizzard think about the lower ranked people in development terms, but its certainly doesnt add much to the scene in terms of viability or mixing up current Terran meta When a protoss moves out to attack put mines between his robo and his army. Put mines behind your mineral lines and he loses his 200 gas Oracle for free. I could just place a few Turrets for defense ? The mine right now looks a gigantic gimmick . Why the hell does Terran need another gimmick we already have Ravens/Reapers .Why do we need another Unit with no real use in combat situations ?
something to nerf after terran figure out how broken powerful seeker missile is and that gets nerfed.
|
On June 09 2012 09:32 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:30 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:21 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 09:19 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:14 obsidia wrote:On June 09 2012 09:00 Vertig0 wrote:
The widow mine looks great, Terran has to figure out the best places to place them, and the opponent has to micro once
really? I cant imagine them being useful under any situation, unless your just playing bronze people all day. Its nice blizzard think about the lower ranked people in development terms, but its certainly doesnt add much to the scene in terms of viability or mixing up current Terran meta When a protoss moves out to attack put mines between his robo and his army. Put mines behind your mineral lines and he loses his 200 gas Oracle for free. I could just place a few Turrets for defense ? The mine right now looks a gigantic gimmick . Why the hell does Terran need another gimmick we already have Ravens/Reapers .Why do we need another Unit with no real use in combat situations ? I'm glad you agree the oracle is worthless as a harasser. If the mine actually is as bad as you think it is, you are only getting screwed as badly as protoss is. Beyond that, you can't be cost effectively attacked if your opponent doesn't have detection. That is an unbelievable amount of utility. ANd other than Terran who doesn't build mobile detection units ? Observers,Overseers aren't a big investment.
If you see a protoss clearing your minefield, scan and snipe the obs with two vikings. Because of the mines his army has to be behind the obs.
|
On June 09 2012 09:33 Woizit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:29 Seiniyta wrote:On June 09 2012 09:25 Woizit wrote:
22 range tempest... How are they expecting zerg to have any air presence in late game with that? I wonder who the "they" are that lose games with it lol. Corruptors and Mutalisks? It doesn't do splash damage. Corruptors eat it for breakfast and mutalisks can fly circles around it. Ah they've removed the splash, makes sense, though it makes the attack animation and unit design rather odd for how it's functioning now. Looking at the video, siege tanks look screwed now with the new units around. I hope they will buff it up considerably.
I think tanks could go back to a flat 50 or even 60-70 damage.
Sounds OP on paper, but with all the counters out there it might just work out. Hell, I think everyone wants tanks to be an important unit in the terran army.
|
On June 09 2012 09:34 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:21 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 09:19 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:14 obsidia wrote:On June 09 2012 09:00 Vertig0 wrote:
The widow mine looks great, Terran has to figure out the best places to place them, and the opponent has to micro once
really? I cant imagine them being useful under any situation, unless your just playing bronze people all day. Its nice blizzard think about the lower ranked people in development terms, but its certainly doesnt add much to the scene in terms of viability or mixing up current Terran meta When a protoss moves out to attack put mines between his robo and his army. Put mines behind your mineral lines and he loses his 200 gas Oracle for free. I could just place a few Turrets for defense ? The mine right now looks a gigantic gimmick . Why the hell does Terran need another gimmick we already have Ravens/Reapers .Why do we need another Unit with no real use in combat situations ? something to nerf after terran figure out how broken powerful seeker missile is and that gets nerfed.
Thats a good one i almost laughed :p . Yeah the Melee Range Seeker Missile is really powerful with its 5 millimeter splash.and stupidly hight energy cost.
|
On June 09 2012 09:36 Kaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:32 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 09:30 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:21 s3rp wrote:On June 09 2012 09:19 Kaw wrote:On June 09 2012 09:14 obsidia wrote:On June 09 2012 09:00 Vertig0 wrote:
The widow mine looks great, Terran has to figure out the best places to place them, and the opponent has to micro once
really? I cant imagine them being useful under any situation, unless your just playing bronze people all day. Its nice blizzard think about the lower ranked people in development terms, but its certainly doesnt add much to the scene in terms of viability or mixing up current Terran meta When a protoss moves out to attack put mines between his robo and his army. Put mines behind your mineral lines and he loses his 200 gas Oracle for free. I could just place a few Turrets for defense ? The mine right now looks a gigantic gimmick . Why the hell does Terran need another gimmick we already have Ravens/Reapers .Why do we need another Unit with no real use in combat situations ? I'm glad you agree the oracle is worthless as a harasser. If the mine actually is as bad as you think it is, you are only getting screwed as badly as protoss is. Beyond that, you can't be cost effectively attacked if your opponent doesn't have detection. That is an unbelievable amount of utility. ANd other than Terran who doesn't build mobile detection units ? Observers,Overseers aren't a big investment. If you see a protoss clearing your minefield, scan and snipe the obs with two vikings. Because of the mines his army has to be behind the obs.
If he has no Colossi or Air though guess what i don't have , Vikings ...
It could situationally be useful but its still way too gimmicky for my taste. Just make it explode for ok-ish dam and be done with it no need for the timer non-sense and the stupidly high damage if the opponent goes full retard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
