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On June 10 2012 13:39 iky43210 wrote:
its about the design, not balance. Warhound and battle hellions sounds extremely boring for units that rivals protoss deathballs. Terran right now is extremely versatile, mobile, and efficient. You need a ton of APM to succeed with some comps such as tank/marines or pushes, and I don't want to move away from that so terran becomes Protoss 2.0
People said warhound are fast and microable, but from the video they seems chunky and have attack delay. I am not sure how much you can micro them. And battle hellions are completely worthless unless you have a ball of them
Great point. So many people on here are obsessed with balance and when we critique game design they only see balance whine...I barely even play Sc2 anymore. I don't care about balance. Balance is easy. I just want the game design to improve so it will be better than BW.
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For me game play is the most important thing and it looks like HotS will broaden the viable strategies compared to WoL. If some units are imbalanced in the alpha version it doesn't really matter as long as they add more depth to the game. Blizzard will have 2-3 years time to balance HotS until LotV comes out so i don't think we should take out the pitchforks just to out the 22 range on the tempest. I like the most additions in HotS and those addition i don't like will probably change during the game development or get removed completely. Oh, ye of little faith...
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I really don't like the swarm host. It seems like it contributes little to a direct engagement, and the units it spawns do little in terms of pressure.
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Question about widow mine
After it's burrowed how do you kill the widow mine?
It attacks air and ground and attacks invisible units. So I didn't understand how you deal with them after they have burrowed?!
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On June 10 2012 18:15 papaz wrote:
Question about widow mine
After it's burrowed how do you kill the widow mine?
It attacks air and ground and attacks invisible units. So I didn't understand how you deal with them after they have burrowed?!
From what I understand the mines have a activation radius of 5-6,the observer for instance,has a detection range of 11.
So you can clean them up but its going to be a real pain in the ass since you will have to pay attention all the time to your observer scouting around in front of your army when you move out.
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On June 10 2012 18:15 papaz wrote:
Question about widow mine
After it's burrowed how do you kill the widow mine?
It attacks air and ground and attacks invisible units. So I didn't understand how you deal with them after they have burrowed?!
You need detection and a longer range (It's range is 5-6), or you can bait out the mines by running in a couple of cheap units (lings and whatnot).
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On June 09 2012 08:31 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:11 Grubby wrote:
TT did you guys notice they made worker counting easier? Says "0/24" on the Hatchery. Did anyone discuss this? :p
EDIT: also, I hate Swarm Host idea.. it's just like ground broodlords, will add even more mindless blockers to the battle to prevent movement like broodlings, fungal and changelings >_< You mean like ... forcefields ?
so happy to know someone's with me on this
"Zerg has always been underpowered." -NesTea, GSL interview
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On June 10 2012 18:23 kAelle_sc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:31 Pr0wler wrote:On June 09 2012 08:11 Grubby wrote:
TT did you guys notice they made worker counting easier? Says "0/24" on the Hatchery. Did anyone discuss this? :p
EDIT: also, I hate Swarm Host idea.. it's just like ground broodlords, will add even more mindless blockers to the battle to prevent movement like broodlings, fungal and changelings >_< You mean like ... forcefields ? so happy to know someone's with me on this "Zerg has always been underpowered." -NesTea, GSL interview
Nestea also said that you should not lose to protoss if you are zerg.
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On June 10 2012 18:23 kAelle_sc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:31 Pr0wler wrote:On June 09 2012 08:11 Grubby wrote:
TT did you guys notice they made worker counting easier? Says "0/24" on the Hatchery. Did anyone discuss this? :p
EDIT: also, I hate Swarm Host idea.. it's just like ground broodlords, will add even more mindless blockers to the battle to prevent movement like broodlings, fungal and changelings >_< You mean like ... forcefields ? so happy to know someone's with me on this "Zerg has always been underpowered." -NesTea, GSL interview
The game already having stupid crap like this is no excuse to keep adding more. I'd be all for removing FF, Fungal, Concussive Shell, and any other anti-micro ability. Or at the very least putting stuff like that on expensive, high-tech units, with high energy costs (aka Arbiters with Stasis in BW).
Also, removing Sentries would also mean removing Warpgate and possibly Colossi, so it's a huge win for everyone.
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For all of those Terrans who are crying about "we'll stay in bioplay TvP". We are not going to: MMM is likely to be a dead end in Hots.
Why?
Mothership Core and Oracle.
For the mothership core: 2 abilitys are very dangerous for Bioplay: Energy remax (i won't even mention Hight templars...) and Recall, no need to go further in explanations for this. =)
For the Oracle: this Horrible IMBA thing (Love it, really, can't understand the toss who won't use them in EVERY game! I'll be sad not seeing them in my TvP...) have 2 abilitys to deny our macro mechanic.
First: Stop mining = MMM is mineral heavy, and can't use his gas after 2.5/3 bases. Using defensive units in combination with our own harassing units is not a good thing when you play with papermade army. If not, we'll have less minerals.
Second: Cloack: Forces Scan or Raven. Raven kill the mobility of MMM, so; his only advantage right now. And scan, it kills potential mineral bank.
Combination of theses two units make resplenish bioarmy more harder: we'll need to use our gas, and now that Reapers won't fit into a standard MMM combination (No speed, Self healing, and i think damage reduced against Light.? See tvz video.). We'll need another way.
As a current mech player in TvP, honestly i'll be glad of all changements we'll have. Current added units may be really cool for metagame and dynamic. Altrough i'm very disappointed of no microable units, no shredder (make it a building like Zerg spines = no drop in menral lines) and the skins of widow mines and warhound.
Aniway, one thing to note is the RANGE 13 of the mothership core canons, like Tanks ! I bet it'll be a really good defense against 1/1/1, so: Bli² will not need to keep Tank in it's current state, especially seeing all theses tank-killa they added in the game. Probably the old 70 damages will take a come back in HoTS.
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On June 10 2012 18:46 DuckNuked wrote:
For all of those Terrans who are crying about "we'll stay in bioplay TvP". We are not going to: MMM is likely to be a dead end in Hots.
Why?
Mothership Core and Oracle.
For the mothership core: 2 abilitys are very dangerous for Bioplay: Energy remax (i won't even mention Hight templars...) and Recall, no need to go further in explanations for this. =)
For the Oracle: this Horrible IMBA thing (Love it, really, can't understand the toss who won't use them in EVERY game! I'll be sad not seeing them in my TvP...) have 2 abilitys to deny our macro mechanic.
First: Stop mining = MMM is mineral heavy, and can't use his gas after 2.5/3 bases. Using defensive units in combination with our own harassing units is not a good thing when you play with papermade army. If not, we'll have less minerals.
Second: Cloack: Forces Scan or Raven. Raven kill the mobility of MMM, so; his only advantage right now. And scan, it kills potential mineral bank.
Combination of theses two units make resplenish bioarmy more harder: we'll need to use our gas, and now that Reapers won't fit into a standard MMM combination (No speed, Self healing, and i think damage reduced against Light.? See tvz video.). We'll need another way.
As a current mech player in TvP, honestly i'll be glad of all changements we'll have. Current added units may be really cool for metagame and dynamic. Altrough i'm very disappointed of no microable units, no shredder (make it a building like Zerg spines = no drop in menral lines) and the skins of widow mines and warhound.
Aniway, one thing to note is the RANGE 13 of the mothership core canons, like Tanks ! I bet it'll be a really good defense against 1/1/1, so: Bli² will not need to keep Tank in it's current state, especially seeing all theses tank-killa they added in the game. Probably the old 70 damages will take a come back in HoTS.
Recall just means mech is even harder because protoss has a free pass out of a pickle. Or do all-in aggressive damage without losing all the units (like getting into the main, killing things, recall out) at any point in the game. If you're playing mech, you have no shot at killing these things if you're even a little bit out of position.
Energy remax is a big problem for MMM. Oracles are not. Vikings should be standard, a few viking shots plus a scan should do away with the cloaking field. You scan enough for obs hunting anyways. Ravens aren't forced by cloaking field.
I'd like to reiterate, it really really sucks that warhound is an a-move unit!
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Hey anyone know where I can find the tvz battle report? I've been looking but no luck so far.. thanks 
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Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game?
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Viper looks awesome, great unit imo.
Warhound looks meh purely from an aesthetic view but it's role is obviously very needed (lol @ tanks in t v t and immortals vs mech).
I like the battle hellion, have no problems with that.
The widow mines I'm on the fence with. I have no opinion until we can see it more in pro level games.
I don't like the oracle at all, I think this unit steps into something a little too flashy and gimmicky.
Mothership core seems like it would be really OP but from a design perspective but I think it would make playing protoss more fun so, looks good.
The tempest is pretty awesome.
The new lurker looks kinda gimmicky (but it DOES look like a turtle, so kudos there)
Ultra burrow charge sounds neat on paper but I would lump this together with the Oracle, this is a little too flashy for Starcraft imo. Feel free to disagree if you think it's awesome.
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Actually, as i'm playing mech, i'm facing a LOT of blink Stalkers and Recall from mothership. And this isn't a problem. And it won't be in Hots neither, especially with widow mines.
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Is it possible to drop widow mines? If so, widow mine drops in mineral lines...
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Some of the stuff seems pretty good, some not so much. At least this should shake up the game and make it more interesting.
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On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game?
Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate
Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D
I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D
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I couldnt watch last night. Have there been more than the TvZ and the PvZ Battlereport?
Thanks in advance
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EPT
