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On June 10 2012 13:01 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 12:50 iky43210 wrote:
terran is going a step back in HOTS. Instead of having mobile, efficient units that requires high apm and harassments, Blizzard added 2 units (warhound/battle hellions) that practically scream immobile and deathballs?
I would be extremely sad if the future affairs of terran is stay at home and max a mech army and 1-a. There is not alot of micro you can do with battle hellions and warhound I dont know about the microability of the warhound, but it seems to be a fast , low health and high damage unit.Probably needs to be microed to be cost effective. Battle hellions are very interesting. Move hellions into small chokes behind mineral lines and transfer a few of them into battlemode. Also, the problem of how many hellions that should be in battle mode is interesting. Fast hellions are good to clean up after a battle but in a full on engagement it might be a better idea to transform some of them as a shield. Then again , it might be wise to keep a few in standard mode for kiting and junk. Just my 2c edit: and the mine has the potential for terrans to control space as in Brood War. Basically every terran with a BW background has been screaming for this. Changes to terran are enough imo.
I don't think they're low health, they have 220 HP, which seems pretty decent to me. They can survive a widow mine blast, which seems quite significant. From everything anyone has said who has actually played the game, the Warhounds seems to be a fun, powerful seeming microable unit. I think people are just having a negative reaction to it because they don't like the artwork, so they automatically scream "this unit is so bad, a-move, no terran late game, I hate it etc." without any kind of information on how it actually plays out. Remember, guys, all we have seen is that one video, unless I somehow missed a TvP battlereport.
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What's the battle hellions armor type? are they still light-mechanical or just mechanical?
that info is not ANYWHERE.
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why no amateur video?players cannot record?
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On June 10 2012 19:36 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate  Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D
You can kill it with workers. They aren't doing anything else that's useful, so i don't see the problem there. Also, entomb will cost a lot of energy, so its not like this will hit at the 6 minute mark or something.
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Any new battle reports (apart from the PvZ and TvZ)?
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wait, so that means we could be seeing proxy nexus into mama core cannon rush? how epic is that
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On June 10 2012 20:32 ETisME wrote:
wait, so that means we could be seeing proxy nexus into mama core cannon rush? how epic is that
Pity you can't block a Zerg ramp with a Nexus.
Incidentally, does the Mothership Core provide highground vision?
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On June 10 2012 19:36 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D
Patrol a couple of marines should do the trick
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On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game?
I play Protoss and had kind of the same reaction. I think the game already has a lot of frustrating mechanism like FF, concusive shells and fungal. Those are abilities you can't really micro against. Even with the best micro in the world, you can't escape concusive shells, which is kind of sad. Fungal would be much better if it would just slow down units as to allow good player to move units out of it.
Entomb just looks like another of those non-micro abilities.Maybe it should require channeling so you have to somewhat move your oracle to avoid the opponent's units to use it effectively. But this whole "one click, move away" mechanism looks really dumb.
I actually like the new zerg green cloud ability (the one that reduces range) much more. You can escape it, so a good player will be able to spread and move its units to reduce its effectiveness. That's how it should be.
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Will there be any TvP HOTS battle reports?
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On June 10 2012 20:53 31415926535 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? I play Protoss and had kind of the same reaction. I think the game already has a lot of frustrating mechanism like FF, concusive shells and fungal. Those are abilities you can't really micro against. Even with the best micro in the world, you can't escape concusive shells, which is kind of sad. Fungal would be much better if it would just slow down units as to allow good player to move units out of it. Entomb just looks like another of those non-micro abilities.Maybe it should require channeling so you have to somewhat move your oracle to avoid the opponent's units to use it effectively. But this whole "one click, move away" mechanism looks really dumb. I actually like the new zerg green cloud ability (the one that reduces range) much more. You can escape it, so a good player will be able to spread and move its units to reduce its effectiveness. That's how it should be.
I feel the exact same way, some of the units added in HOTS are good concepts but not implemented as good as they could be. If Protoss needs a harass unit (which I think they do), give them something which takes more skill to use than one click to deny ALL mining at one base (the reaver comes to mind).
Also, I really don't like the Abduct ability, it renders positional play and advantages completely useless, and there is no point in making high tier units if they are going to get destroyed so easily :/
Now about the warhound, I don't really think Terran needs an anti-mech unit, we already have marauders so I feel the warhound is kinda redundant especially when it doesn't even have an anti-air attack. The warhound, with it's auto missile attack to mechanical units is also a terrible idea. Terran was a really nicely designed race in the sense that almost all units benefited from good control...we don't want a chargelot number 2 -.-
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I just want another battlereport!
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On June 10 2012 21:22 Morphage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 20:53 31415926535 wrote:On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? I play Protoss and had kind of the same reaction. I think the game already has a lot of frustrating mechanism like FF, concusive shells and fungal. Those are abilities you can't really micro against. Even with the best micro in the world, you can't escape concusive shells, which is kind of sad. Fungal would be much better if it would just slow down units as to allow good player to move units out of it. Entomb just looks like another of those non-micro abilities.Maybe it should require channeling so you have to somewhat move your oracle to avoid the opponent's units to use it effectively. But this whole "one click, move away" mechanism looks really dumb. I actually like the new zerg green cloud ability (the one that reduces range) much more. You can escape it, so a good player will be able to spread and move its units to reduce its effectiveness. That's how it should be. I feel the exact same way, some of the units added in HOTS are good concepts but not implemented as good as they could be. If Protoss needs a harass unit (which I think they do), give them something which takes more skill to use than one click to deny ALL mining at one base (the reaver comes to mind). Also, I really don't like the Abduct ability, it renders positional play and advantages completely useless, and there is no point in making high tier units if they are going to get destroyed so easily :/ Now about the warhound, I don't really think Terran needs an anti-mech unit, we already have marauders so I feel the warhound is kinda redundant especially when it doesn't even have an anti-air attack. The warhound, with it's auto missile attack to mechanical units is also a terrible idea. Terran was a really nicely designed race in the sense that almost all units benefited from good control...we don't want a chargelot number 2 -.-
For Protoss harass, they wanted something that couldn't be used in a direct engagement, to limit the "death ball" effect. Not a bad goal for sure and that was the incentive for the Oracle's creation.
Funny thing is now with the cloaking field, you could even imagine using it in your main army :D
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i am a terran player, i like the additions to protoss and zerg, but for terran i have one issue:
change the warhound model TT
the widowmine can and hopefully will be very cool
battlehellion is a welcome addition (will block masses of lots and lings)
but the warhound looks like trash assembled in a rush (modelwise)... but also the use of the unit seems weird if you compare it to the marauder:
you will make 0 warhounds against zerg. (no mech)
will you choose the warhound over the marauder against protoss?
(the only protoss unit that is mech but not armored is the sentry)
will you make warhounds over siegetanks in TvT?
i don't like this unit, both in looks and in usage it is outdone by the marauder in TvZ and TvP, and for TvT i guess it can be useful if it breaks big tanklines (poor siegetanks in hots btw no matter the matchup)
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On June 10 2012 19:59 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:36 -Archangel- wrote:On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D You can kill it with workers. They aren't doing anything else that's useful, so i don't see the problem there. Also, entomb will cost a lot of energy, so its not like this will hit at the 6 minute mark or something.
You serious? That didn't work with version they had for Blizzcon and it will not work for this one. Yes, you can attack but it takes way too long and you need to manually send them back to mining afterwards for each base after each attack.
You know how long it takes toss per base to do this? click oracle, shift+click spell on minerals, shift+click back to safe air behind base.
On June 10 2012 20:41 Gladiator333 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:36 -Archangel- wrote:On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D Patrol a couple of marines should do the trick
Lol? couple of marines cannot do anything. In last version I could not stop it with 2 spores.
Did you look at battle reports? Did you see the range it can be cast from?
Couple of marines only work if Oracle needs to come above minerals to cast. As long as cast range is something like 6 it will never work unless you build 4 towers at each base.
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i really don't like warhound and thor together, too many shitty mech that have similar role, they should scrap both and make another factory units that have some spell like irradiate or lockdown, or something else
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On June 10 2012 21:36 Naphal wrote:
i am a terran player, i like the additions to protoss and zerg, but for terran i have one issue:
change the warhound model TT
the widowmine can and hopefully will be very cool
battlehellion is a welcome addition (will block masses of lots and lings)
but the warhound looks like trash assembled in a rush (modelwise)... but also the use of the unit seems weird if you compare it to the marauder:
you will make 0 warhounds against zerg. (no mech)
will you choose the warhound over the marauder against protoss?
(the only protoss unit that is mech but not armored is the sentry)
will you make warhounds over siegetanks in TvT?
i don't like this unit, both in looks and in usage it is outdone by the marauder in TvZ and TvP, and for TvT i guess it can be useful if it breaks big tanklines (poor siegetanks in hots btw no matter the matchup)
The Warhound will actually deal more overall damage due to the auto-cast missiles. They also have way better DPS vs Zealots and HTs, and are pretty fast (2.81 move speed, .14 less than a Stalker) and 1.3 Attack speed (.2 Faster than a Marauder(!!!)).
The more I look at the Warhound, the more I begin to like it.
EDIT: We still need to know if the Warhound's missiles are Mech only. This hasn't been answered yet. If it isn't, I can definitely see this being used vs Zerg. But for TvP and TvT? Outside of Bioball Stim pushes, Warhounds are definitely better than Marauders.
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On June 10 2012 21:30 MCDayC wrote:
I just want another battlereport!
Dammit Blizz >_<
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On June 10 2012 21:54 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:59 Fragile51 wrote:On June 10 2012 19:36 -Archangel- wrote:On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D You can kill it with workers. They aren't doing anything else that's useful, so i don't see the problem there. Also, entomb will cost a lot of energy, so its not like this will hit at the 6 minute mark or something. You serious? That didn't work with version they had for Blizzcon and it will not work for this one. Yes, you can attack but it takes way too long and you need to manually send them back to mining afterwards for each base after each attack. You know how long it takes toss per base to do this? click oracle, shift+click spell on minerals, shift+click back to safe air behind base. Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 20:41 Gladiator333 wrote:On June 10 2012 19:36 -Archangel- wrote:On June 10 2012 19:07 Zorkmid wrote:
Entomb seems stupid and annoying. How on earth do you prevent that early game? Probably by building spine crawlers if you scout toss having stargate Blizzard logic. Lets design an air unit that will make you build anti ground towers :D I wonder how they plan for terran to defend against it :D Patrol a couple of marines should do the trick Lol? couple of marines cannot do anything. In last version I could not stop it with 2 spores. Did you look at battle reports? Did you see the range it can be cast from? Couple of marines only work if Oracle needs to come above minerals to cast. As long as cast range is something like 6 it will never work unless you build 4 towers at each base.
Assuming the the entomb is range 7, which is what it looked like, spores and missile turrets should be able to zone it out. The thing only has 20 shields/80 hp We need to see how the spell is cast. Is it an AOE that covers minerals or are the minerals covered based on which patch is clicked on?
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anyone has tried the stasis of the mothership?
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EPT
