EPTOfficial Real Talk Thread of Realness - Page 39
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
| ||
|
Fueled
United States1610 Posts
| ||
|
Dante_A_
United States161 Posts
On June 25 2012 00:55 Strabismus wrote: Idra and InControL are already really exposed players though, nevertheless I've liked every interview he's done so far. This kind of ties in to the next thing ... I'm glad TB has called out the EG training house. I agreed with InControL's early statements and defense when it was people grilled 1 or 2 months after it was established, it was too early for the house to have much affect on results or player performance. But we're fast approaching a year and EG really isn't doing well in terms of results - at all. All-killed by Sheth? An actual DECLINE in overall EG performences. I really want to see EG do well because along with Liquid I see them as the forerunner teams on the foreigner scene, and they are still my favourite team, but that team house seems like a joke. Korean supremacy in StarCraft 2 isn't inate. It isn't a genetic part of their being. They work extremely fucking hard to get where they are. Of course there are people with a more natural disposition and talent towards the game, but in general, there is no difference between foreigners and koreans. I watch a lot of EG streams and the amount of bloody rubbish that seems to go on in that house ... I imagine there will be a response to this on SotG or by some EG pros. I think Idra will agree, and I think HuK will agree. I think InControL will probably try and defend EG. But they are essentially a PR team for an energy drink at this point. If they can survive off this and continue to be a part of eSports, good for them, but I'd really like to see some more legitimate results start to reappear, at least for the top players. Like Ret said in Liquid Rising, he wants this year to be a year of results, and not a year of talent. I don't think the EG house should become a sweatshop of SC2 like old school BW Korean houses, but they definitely need to consolidate their players in there and put some damn work in. Enough time has gone by, the EG house needs to be scrutinised. There's too much PR and baseless hype and not enough substance in terms of quality SC2 play. ______________ I also like what he says about Day9. I've actually found myself feeling genuinely sorry for Sean lately when I hear about all this rubbish being flung his way. Not long ago he was untouchable in terms of criticism and THAT is how it should be all the time. Day9 is a human being and obviously has flaws like everyone else, but in terms of what is relevent to us as a community, and in terms of what he has contributed to eSports and how he represents himself, he has done NOTHING wrong and we are incredibly lucky someone was talented, funny, hard-working and genuine has decided to contribute so much themself to building eSports. Day9 has never made a single mistake that has had any negative impact on us as a community, despite being such an influential figure, yet he's receiving senseless critisism? This horrible, cancerous point of view founded on jealousy and spitfulness that seems to try and deconstruct such an incredible part of the SC2 scene (and the very reason I got into SC2 eSports in the first place) really, really depresses me. I hope this rancid shit that seems to be going around about Sean just stops and I really hope it never bothers him or stops him from doing what he wants to do. Strabismus, you spend several paragraphs attacking the EG house, even though EG has only done positive things for the foreign scene, and then you say its wrong for anyone to attack Day9. Why is Day9 any different than the guys on EG? | ||
|
Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 25 2012 02:24 Dante_A_ wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 25 2012 00:55 Strabismus wrote: Idra and InControL are already really exposed players though, nevertheless I've liked every interview he's done so far. This kind of ties in to the next thing ... I'm glad TB has called out the EG training house. I agreed with InControL's early statements and defense when it was people grilled 1 or 2 months after it was established, it was too early for the house to have much affect on results or player performance. But we're fast approaching a year and EG really isn't doing well in terms of results - at all. All-killed by Sheth? An actual DECLINE in overall EG performences. I really want to see EG do well because along with Liquid I see them as the forerunner teams on the foreigner scene, and they are still my favourite team, but that team house seems like a joke. Korean supremacy in StarCraft 2 isn't inate. It isn't a genetic part of their being. They work extremely fucking hard to get where they are. Of course there are people with a more natural disposition and talent towards the game, but in general, there is no difference between foreigners and koreans. I watch a lot of EG streams and the amount of bloody rubbish that seems to go on in that house ... I imagine there will be a response to this on SotG or by some EG pros. I think Idra will agree, and I think HuK will agree. I think InControL will probably try and defend EG. But they are essentially a PR team for an energy drink at this point. If they can survive off this and continue to be a part of eSports, good for them, but I'd really like to see some more legitimate results start to reappear, at least for the top players. Like Ret said in Liquid Rising, he wants this year to be a year of results, and not a year of talent. I don't think the EG house should become a sweatshop of SC2 like old school BW Korean houses, but they definitely need to consolidate their players in there and put some damn work in. Enough time has gone by, the EG house needs to be scrutinised. There's too much PR and baseless hype and not enough substance in terms of quality SC2 play. ______________ I also like what he says about Day9. I've actually found myself feeling genuinely sorry for Sean lately when I hear about all this rubbish being flung his way. Not long ago he was untouchable in terms of criticism and THAT is how it should be all the time. Day9 is a human being and obviously has flaws like everyone else, but in terms of what is relevent to us as a community, and in terms of what he has contributed to eSports and how he represents himself, he has done NOTHING wrong and we are incredibly lucky someone was talented, funny, hard-working and genuine has decided to contribute so much themself to building eSports. Day9 has never made a single mistake that has had any negative impact on us as a community, despite being such an influential figure, yet he's receiving senseless critisism? This horrible, cancerous point of view founded on jealousy and spitfulness that seems to try and deconstruct such an incredible part of the SC2 scene (and the very reason I got into SC2 eSports in the first place) really, really depresses me. I hope this rancid shit that seems to be going around about Sean just stops and I really hope it never bothers him or stops him from doing what he wants to do. Strabismus, you spend several paragraphs attacking the EG house, even though EG has only done positive things for the foreign scene, and then you say its wrong for anyone to attack Day9. Why is Day9 any different than the guys on EG? That's not what he said. He said it was wrong for people to be throwing empty criticisms at Day9. And it is. It wouldn't be wrong for criticisms with weight to them to be thrown at Day9, but so far barely any of those have come up. As for EG, the fact that they're accomplished essentially nothing recently despite a rather lengthy team house atmosphere is definitely a concrete criticism. | ||
|
Yoduh
United States216 Posts
On June 25 2012 02:24 Dante_A_ wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 25 2012 00:55 Strabismus wrote: Idra and InControL are already really exposed players though, nevertheless I've liked every interview he's done so far. This kind of ties in to the next thing ... I'm glad TB has called out the EG training house. I agreed with InControL's early statements and defense when it was people grilled 1 or 2 months after it was established, it was too early for the house to have much affect on results or player performance. But we're fast approaching a year and EG really isn't doing well in terms of results - at all. All-killed by Sheth? An actual DECLINE in overall EG performences. I really want to see EG do well because along with Liquid I see them as the forerunner teams on the foreigner scene, and they are still my favourite team, but that team house seems like a joke. Korean supremacy in StarCraft 2 isn't inate. It isn't a genetic part of their being. They work extremely fucking hard to get where they are. Of course there are people with a more natural disposition and talent towards the game, but in general, there is no difference between foreigners and koreans. I watch a lot of EG streams and the amount of bloody rubbish that seems to go on in that house ... I imagine there will be a response to this on SotG or by some EG pros. I think Idra will agree, and I think HuK will agree. I think InControL will probably try and defend EG. But they are essentially a PR team for an energy drink at this point. If they can survive off this and continue to be a part of eSports, good for them, but I'd really like to see some more legitimate results start to reappear, at least for the top players. Like Ret said in Liquid Rising, he wants this year to be a year of results, and not a year of talent. I don't think the EG house should become a sweatshop of SC2 like old school BW Korean houses, but they definitely need to consolidate their players in there and put some damn work in. Enough time has gone by, the EG house needs to be scrutinised. There's too much PR and baseless hype and not enough substance in terms of quality SC2 play. ______________ I also like what he says about Day9. I've actually found myself feeling genuinely sorry for Sean lately when I hear about all this rubbish being flung his way. Not long ago he was untouchable in terms of criticism and THAT is how it should be all the time. Day9 is a human being and obviously has flaws like everyone else, but in terms of what is relevent to us as a community, and in terms of what he has contributed to eSports and how he represents himself, he has done NOTHING wrong and we are incredibly lucky someone was talented, funny, hard-working and genuine has decided to contribute so much themself to building eSports. Day9 has never made a single mistake that has had any negative impact on us as a community, despite being such an influential figure, yet he's receiving senseless critisism? This horrible, cancerous point of view founded on jealousy and spitfulness that seems to try and deconstruct such an incredible part of the SC2 scene (and the very reason I got into SC2 eSports in the first place) really, really depresses me. I hope this rancid shit that seems to be going around about Sean just stops and I really hope it never bothers him or stops him from doing what he wants to do. Strabismus, you spend several paragraphs attacking the EG house, even though EG has only done positive things for the foreign scene, and then you say its wrong for anyone to attack Day9. Why is Day9 any different than the guys on EG? he only gave the same opinion as TB. because like any good TL/reddit poster it's easier to take and repeat someone elses opinion than make your own. hence why we have witch hunts and waves of everyone hating then defending then hating again random players/casters/anyone. | ||
|
ralffriend
Germany112 Posts
| ||
Strabismus
United Kingdom65 Posts
On June 25 2012 02:34 Yoduh wrote: he only gave the same opinion as TB. because like any good TL/reddit poster it's easier to take and repeat someone elses opinion than make your own. hence why we have witch hunts and waves of everyone hating then defending then hating again random players/casters/anyone. Just because it's a popular opinion doesn't make it wrong or have any less weight to it. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have been thinking this for a long time, just only recently have we started to approach a time frame where it's reasonable to say something, because obviously it takes a while for a team house to have some pay off for the players. There should have been some notable result by now, but if anything the OPPOSITE has occurred. I think you've just fallen back on claiming I'm a lemming because you don't really have anything better to come at me with. I like EG a lot and they've done a lot for the scene, and it's precisely because they're so highly regarded and have the resources to do so much that failing to show any real progress in terms of results hurts all the more. Note I say "results"; I'm sure there's been an improvement in player performance, but EVERYONE is improving at the game at some rate provided they practice, EG just seem to be improving at a slower rate than everyone else. They handle the business side well. They handle the showcasing of players really well and garnering sponsors and support for the team (I'm a huge fan of almost everyone on the team). They're a legitimate, professional business. But in terms of actual substance, in terms of results we aren't seeing much at all. There needs to be some kind of re-prioritisation because with all the streaming, players leaving the house, the nonsense I see going on in the background when watching a lot of streams and the PR, I don't see there being much time for genuine practice. I want to see EG do well. I really do. They've got one side nailed down tight, they've got the brand sorted. Now they need to nail down the important half - the results. | ||
|
Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
And the team house is not only just for player improvements. They can also do constantly other things for sponsors and fans. Commercials, mails, etc, you know, stuff to make everyone happy and are necessary for the Team and esport. And it's not only a sc2 house, but also for other eg members. And i don't understand the distraction part. What is distracting in the Lair? the dog? that maybe people are walking behind them and talk? Those things also exists in the Korean team houses (maybe not the dog, but as if that would really distract someone). | ||
|
ronpaul012
United States769 Posts
One of the things that makes korean houses "so much better" isn't the strict training environments. Watch any video of a korean house or a stream and you'll see a lot of the same shenanigans that go on in the EG house. Thorzain and Huk could both get the same type of strictness at the EG house, but the main thing that Korea provides is Korean ladder. TB's point about getting the korean players to live in the house seemed a bit odd to me, because they'd just roll over ladder all day, and would lack serious practice partners in NA. | ||
|
Strabismus
United Kingdom65 Posts
| ||
|
Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
 Question though: At some point there HAS to be a "Real Talk: JP" one, who will be the host for that? :D | ||
|
NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
| ||
|
JazzJackrabbit
Canada1272 Posts
On June 25 2012 07:05 Broodwurst wrote: Another great episode, love the show Question though: At some point there HAS to be a "Real Talk: JP" one, who will be the host for that? :D JP said on Reddit that when he hits a milestone episode (like 50 or 100) he'll get Artosis to interview him. | ||
|
CuteZergling
641 Posts
| ||
|
Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On June 25 2012 03:59 Strabismus wrote: True, barely any of us outside of EG have enough knowledge to ascertain the problems going on in the house accurately I'll admit that much, there's a lot to take into account, a lot of it we know nothing about. But to deny that there is a problem at this point is just evading the issue. Even iNcontroL didn't try to dodge the fact that getting all-killed by Sheth doesn't make EG look like a solid competitive team. Yes, we don't have super in depth knowledge of the EG house. But we do see it on stream all the time, and there are dogs running around, people coming and going, people's girlfriends hanging around all the time, and just a general fuck ton of distractions. Most people would not be very productive in that kind of environment, sure you can say you trained for 8 hours a day, but when a lot of that time is wasted on distractions or streaming then how much did you really train for in those 8 hours. The other part of the problem is you have a manager, Anna, who is one of the players girlfriends, and a "coach", Incontrol, who is one of the players. That sounds like a pretty shit setup as far as oversight and maintaining a practice environment are concerned. I'm not too big a fan of living where you work in general, but the koreans do seem to make it work. | ||
|
Mabius
Canada323 Posts
Until a team actually has the balls to get a smaller house which would have less distractions and try to mimic the Koreans I wouldn't expect a proper comparison any time soon. | ||
|
Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On June 25 2012 10:32 Mabius wrote: You're never going to have a training house State Side like they do in Korea. It just doesn't work here.. people have realized this and they are satisfied with making money through coaching / streaming / being personalities. Until a team actually has the balls to get a smaller house which would have less distractions and try to mimic the Koreans I wouldn't expect a proper comparison any time soon. I don't disagree, but cmon having one of your players as the coach and his girlfriend as the team manager? Even if they want to make money primarily through being personalities, having someone on the teams girlfriend be the manager is just an awful idea. | ||
|
Hnnngg
United States1101 Posts
On June 25 2012 12:01 Duravi wrote: I don't disagree, but cmon having one of your players as the coach and his girlfriend as the team manager? Even if they want to make money primarily through being personalities, having someone on the teams girlfriend be the manager is just an awful idea. The team manager is Cody (evoli, gosutrolling), not Anna. | ||
|
Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On June 25 2012 12:04 Hnnngg wrote: The team manager is Cody (evoli, gosutrolling), not Anna. Didn't they say in one of their videos that she was the manager at the house? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Anna, I just don't think it very professional to hire someone's girlfriend for a job that may involve some oversight of that person and his peers. | ||
|
Hnnngg
United States1101 Posts
On June 25 2012 12:13 Duravi wrote: Didn't they say in one of their videos that she was the manager at the house? Something like... manager of the house. As far as I can tell, she handles the "EG PR" team that is so famous. For things like player-centric managing, that's Evoli/SirScoots/AlexGarfield's job. | ||
| ||
