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Bidj
France98 Posts
There are been already 5 or 6 people posting "derp, queens can't kite" or "herp, zelniq already proved than queens are unable to kite"... when TT1 is speaking about stalker+zealot kitting lings + queen on creep, not the other way. P.S.: Sorry for murdering the mother language of Shakespeare. | ||
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Enhancer_
Canada320 Posts
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knOxStarcraft
Canada422 Posts
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Gackt_
335 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:03 IshinShishi wrote: This figuring out BS should've made me ignore your post altogether, so useless, but ..immortal range buff happened to protoss to deal with 1-1-1 better, of course zergs didn't complain much. so what u say is that the immortal range buff didnt affect the ZvP and therfor no complainments? Cuz it sure as hell did. Thats like as if I were to say "This Queen buff is supposed to deal with early terran harass better and therefor it's okay for protoss" which in fact it should be. Right? lol | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:21 knOxStarcraft wrote: Protoss should not be questioning buffs to Zerg at all. Protoss players should just keep quiet and hope to not get nerfed. If Blizzard watches GSL at all, which I'm sure they do, a Protoss nerf is incoming. They can't nerf Protoss. Too busy nerfing Terran directly and indirectly. On topic, anybody notice any extra denial of scouting by Zerg? Sure, the obvious is that probes can't dance around as well in the early game, but with increased AA coverage from having more queen defense, does that actually hinder hallucinate/observer scouting as well? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
aside from 4 gate though i dont see how mass queens is going to actually hold any concentrated attack its not like mass queen would ever hold off 7 gate | ||
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Obelisco
Peru1962 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:27 aksfjh wrote: They can't nerf Protoss. Too busy nerfing Terran directly and indirectly. On topic, anybody notice any extra denial of scouting by Zerg? Sure, the obvious is that probes can't dance around as well in the early game, but with increased AA coverage from having more queen defense, does that actually hinder hallucinate/observer scouting as well? It doesnt affect hallucinate/observer as buff is on for anti-ground attack. It does affacet probe scouting, easier to kill and easier to deny info by the zerg. | ||
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Bidj
France98 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:20 Enhancer_ wrote: I find it very cute how Terran and Protoss are whining about how their early game pressures aren't as effective now. Zerg pretty much doesn't have any early game pressure that isn't either a huge risk or all-in against Terran and Protoss. Because T & P can make drones/probes/scvs by round of 10, right ? This kind of comparisons are silly and probably belong to the Blizzard forums. What make this game great is that there are different mechanisms for the 3 races. "Zerg pretty much doesn't have any early game pressure that isn't either a huge risk or all-in against Terran and Protoss." Yeah ? That's the goal. Because with no pressure on both sides, a Z will be maxed long before their T or P counterpart. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:36 Obelisco wrote: It doesnt affect hallucinate/observer as buff is on for anti-ground attack. It does affacet probe scouting, easier to kill and easier to deny info by the zerg. when t comes to probe scouting all you want to know is if they dropped a third which a queen wont deny anyway and with a tiny itty bit of micro youll get a full scout of there main with probe anyway | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:34 Forikorder wrote: i dont think TT1 read about the changes, Queens were given more range in order to help hold early game defenses aside from 4 gate though i dont see how mass queens is going to actually hold any concentrated attack its not like mass queen would ever hold off 7 gate I think the point is that the fear of defending certain openings prevented Zergs from getting habitually greedy. They would have to make more or less long term investments to cover their build from potential game ending build orders. With the increased strength of queens, this means their long term investments go from making noncompounding investments (aggressive/defensive units) to compounding investments (drones/queens). Overcompensating for a push now doesn't punish the Zerg as much, if at all, making their entrance into mid or lategame even stronger, allowing them to hold these pushes even better. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
TT1 is talking about the 4gate after FFE. One season of GSL is not indicative of balance. P/T need to be able to pressure Z because they cannot match Z's economy by sitting back and macroing. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:36 Obelisco wrote: It doesnt affect hallucinate/observer as buff is on for anti-ground attack. It does affacet probe scouting, easier to kill and easier to deny info by the zerg. I know the air attack is unchanged, but with the ground buff, this means Zerg is more inclined to get more earlier to defend from ground aggression. This means they have better AA coverage around their base. | ||
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Peleus
Australia420 Posts
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:41 Oreo7 wrote: So many noobies in this thread. TT1 is talking about the 4gate after FFE. One season of GSL is not indicative of balance. P/T need to be able to pressure Z because they cannot match Z's economy by sitting back and macroing. In the same vein, 1 day of change isn't indicative of a problem. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:46 Peleus wrote: Obviously the queen buff is from 3 - 5 range. Do you really think that it's that significant that queens to kite amazingly easier now because of this? They still have stupidly low DPS vs almost anything, and can't hold any significant pressure. It's still easy to pressure zerg with 2-3 zealots and force them to produce units. IMO that's one the kind of thing that the queen change is going to shut down almost completely. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:41 Oreo7 wrote: So many noobies in this thread. TT1 is talking about the 4gate after FFE. One season of GSL is not indicative of balance. P/T need to be able to pressure Z because they cannot match Z's economy by sitting back and macroing. noones going to blidnly make a million queens and if tyhey make that many queens just to stop the 2 base 4gate then the 4gate succeeded and there economy is in the dumps the 2 base 4gate isnt a threat if they know its coming and prepare for it | ||
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shadowboxer
United States224 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:41 Oreo7 wrote: So many noobies in this thread. TT1 is talking about the 4gate after FFE. One season of GSL is not indicative of balance. P/T need to be able to pressure Z because they cannot match Z's economy by sitting back and macroing. Very rarely did this pressure ever work against a competent or non-greedy zerg pre-patch. The post seems to be whining about not being able to do stupid pressure that only stomped "noobies" to begin with. This is exactly like when 2 gate was nerfed and everyone said there was no way to pressure a fast expanding zerg for months until tester showed people how to cannon rush. Point being, you'll find a new way to apply pressure; one which you should have found a long time ago because these builds haven't been working against prepared zergs for a while. Or you'll find a way to econ safely; a build that gets punished for playing greedy, but rewards safe play. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:49 Forikorder wrote: noones going to blidnly make a million queens and if tyhey make that many queens just to stop the 2 base 4gate then the 4gate succeeded and there economy is in the dumps the 2 base 4gate isnt a threat if they know its coming and prepare for it How is their economy "in the dumps"? Normally, to hold it off, they would have to get gas, which costs drones/larva as well as mining time when getting more gas. Being able to stick to a mineral only economy allows them to get hatcheries faster and increase production, and increases the potential for more gas later. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On May 12 2012 09:55 aksfjh wrote: How is their economy "in the dumps"? Normally, to hold it off, they would have to get gas, which costs drones/larva as well as mining time when getting more gas. Being able to stick to a mineral only economy allows them to get hatcheries faster and increase production, and increases the potential for more gas later. you dont need gas to hold off 2 base 4 gate you dont need gas to hold of regular 4gate | ||
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CeliosB
Canada100 Posts
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