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On May 10 2012 12:48 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:45 gengka wrote:On May 10 2012 12:39 Gosi wrote:
And Terran gets nothing. This isn't even fun anymore. You can scream and show statistics from GSL on how good Terran is how much you want, the point is still that all of us are just ladder scrubs trying to have fun but we don't because it gets so stale quickly when we get nerfed every patch. Meanwhile P and Z gets new buffs in their favour even when they are doing just fine at the same time as they are throwing so much shit in our fucking faces because Terran was OP way back and Terran players in the pro scene sweep the floor with their competition like it has anything to do with Terran being OP now in 2012.
No wonder the ladder is a Z/P fest. zzzz Correction. Pro scene is not dominated by terran anymore. Latest MLG was won by a Zerg. Previous GSL is won by the same Zerg player (u know who). And the current GSL Semi Final consists of 3 protoss and 1 Terran. So yeah, Terran is supposingly strongest in the early/mid game and weakest in the late game but now our advantage is denied by P and Z's faster scouting and also stronger queen defence. So where do we stand now? At equal footing. Sorry, 6 months of all TvT's forced Blizz to bring Terran down to the same level as Zerg and Protoss 
Correction. Forced to bring korean terran players down to the same level as everyone else. There is a difference.
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I, Terran, approve of this change to the bunker :p
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Are all the terrans in this thread retarded? Cant deny creep tummors cause the scary queen will poke your helions and scratch the paint? Queens do terrible dps to ground units, takes years to kill 1 helion... 4-6 helions basically can 2 shot a creep tumor? how hard is it to dart in snipe the tumor and run away?? do u really think 2 queens are going to ever ever ever kill your helions if do even bronze level micro? this buff will only effect Bunker rushes. reaper opening are still 100% valid too you dont open reapers to kill drones (if u can its nice) but the main reason is to scout and deny scouting/ creep, again with decent micro u wont ever lose ur reaper to a queen. this isn't going to change much but just make it harder to bunker rush but it can and still will be done.
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Interesting...not sure about the Queen change's necessity. Maybe for hellions?
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On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
Ghost
Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
thats a buff. less gas. Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP . it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad.
Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks.
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Terran early game pressure against zerg just got heavily nerfed. Marines, reapers, and hellions can't kite queens. Now are we going to see some sort of silly 3 hatch before gas from zergs against terran now and defend with mass queen?
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On May 10 2012 12:54 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 10 2012 12:21 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting Zerg and toss buffs= Terran QQ. Fixed that for you. Because Terrans are the ones who had a sad zealot everywhere until they got a buff LOL
The sad zealot wasn't because of patches. That was because Protosses never won anything. LOL.
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terran nerfs = standard to most patches; therefore no terran changes almost feels like a buff to me right now......the 3-5 range is a little out there though o.O
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I'm amused by the people saying proxy 2 raxes will never ever be used again. While their effectiveness will be lessened I'm willing to bet we'll still be seeing them in future and zergs will still lose to them due to not pulling enough drones or failing with their drone micro. The longer range queen isn't going to save you if you already lost too many drones.
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Hopefully, in Patch 1.4.4. Blizzard will increase Bunker build time to 60-70 seconds. Increase Ghost Cost to 300minerals - 150 gas. Decrease damage of Seeker missile to 50. Decrease Siege tank rage from 13 to 10. Increase viking build time to 80 seconds. And, last but not least, increase Banshee Cloak to 300 seconds. =)
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>Bunker is not changed
wait, what?
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On May 10 2012 13:08 m!st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:04 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:
[quote]
All terran buffs since release:
[quote]
This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ.
Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. thats a buff. less gas. Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP . it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. So i should build Ravens to catch Feebacks ? What the hell ? Seeker Missile btw very bad against Toss since Toss units are too big . The Splash radius is very small and gets reduced super quickly . Not to mention Seeker Missile has 3!!! range less than Feeback if you ever get hit by one with HT's on the field ( and it will barely do anything anyway ) you deserve to get dropped out of SC2 and your Game deleted from your harddrive. Didn't Say to catch feedbacks, also 3 range less? now you know how we feel about snipe vs feedback(less extreme but the same thing).....I was just brainstorming, If you have lots of gas there has to be something to spend it on that can help you no?
If you upgrade Airunits well a few mixed BC's can help you if EMP them. Ravens saidly don't help against lategame toss . Like i said Ravens work well with Mech ( in any MU ) and kind of suck with Bio . Since TvP lategame will allways be Bio + X Raven don't really help you at that point. I mean Bio make the Toss respond with a buttload of Zealots , Colossi , HT's , Archons . Ravens are useful against none of those units .
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On May 10 2012 13:11 psychotics wrote:
Are all the terrans in this thread retarded? Cant deny creep tummors cause the scary queen will poke your helions and scratch the paint? Queens do terrible dps to ground units, takes years to kill 1 helion... 4-6 helions basically can 2 shot a creep tumor? how hard is it to dart in snipe the tumor and run away?? do u really think 2 queens are going to ever ever ever kill your helions if do even bronze level micro? this buff will only effect Bunker rushes. reaper opening are still 100% valid too you dont open reapers to kill drones (if u can its nice) but the main reason is to scout and deny scouting/ creep, again with decent micro u wont ever lose ur reaper to a queen. this isn't going to change much but just make it harder to bunker rush but it can and still will be done.
My post on the top of the 14th page argues why there are much resultant issues beyond simply denying bunkers.
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On May 10 2012 13:11 psychotics wrote:
Are all the terrans in this thread retarded? Cant deny creep tummors cause the scary queen will poke your helions and scratch the paint? Queens do terrible dps to ground units, takes years to kill 1 helion... 4-6 helions basically can 2 shot a creep tumor? how hard is it to dart in snipe the tumor and run away?? do u really think 2 queens are going to ever ever ever kill your helions if do even bronze level micro? this buff will only effect Bunker rushes. reaper opening are still 100% valid too you dont open reapers to kill drones (if u can its nice) but the main reason is to scout and deny scouting/ creep, again with decent micro u wont ever lose ur reaper to a queen. this isn't going to change much but just make it harder to bunker rush but it can and still will be done.
Yeah, you can still slow down Creep and the Third Expo and gain map control with Hellions, the difference is now you can't just retardedly run 4-6 Hellions into a base and just run circles around everything while basically taking no damage. Good patch imo, let the Terrans cry about it all they want, they'll get over it.
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On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:
[quote]
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks.
I'm sorry but did you just suggest siege tanks versus protoss lategame? >_>
With 2+ robo's that can instantly turn into massive immortal production? >_>
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On May 10 2012 12:59 -orb- wrote:
Really terrible.
I'm embarrassed for blizzard's balance team
I pretty much agree. While it's pretty obvious that the balance of the game won't change too much with this patch, the reasons for balancing decisions don't make any sense.
Blizzard always releases win/loss statistics from their ladder that are "adjusted for player skill". The only problem with that is that there's no way to measure "player skill" other than from player wins/losses themselves. The statistic is biased because game balance also affects player wins/losses.
Then there's the thing that David Kim said about protoss not doing well at the "highest level". First of all, I don't think we should be looking at tournaments for an even distribution of races/races winning tournaments. As long as the games were fair (balance wise) then it shouldn't matter if a certain race or player is winning the tournaments. Equality of opportunity not outcomes. Secondly, weren't there protoss players in the semifinals in the recent gsl (not that I believe that this has anything to do with balance or watch tournaments)? If you're going to use bad reasoning at least get the facts straight.
What do you expect from a development team that made some god awful design decisions like steppes of war and destructible rocks?
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On May 10 2012 13:16 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks. I'm sorry but did you just suggest siege tanks versus protoss lategame? >_> With 2+ robo's that can instantly turn into massive immortal production? >_>
Yeah i did, did you notice how the immortals have to get close enough to kill seige tanks, im talking about a few seige tanks for splash all over zeals/colossi, immortals wont have a chance to engage when you have stimmed marines targeting them down.
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On May 10 2012 13:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:54 SolidMoose wrote:On May 10 2012 12:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 10 2012 12:21 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting Zerg and toss buffs= Terran QQ. Fixed that for you. Because Terrans are the ones who had a sad zealot everywhere until they got a buff LOL The sad zealot wasn't because of patches. That was because Protosses never won anything. LOL.
Just goes to show that protoss players are bad at this game. Especially considering those recent terran nerfs and protoss buffs. Terran still has better win-rates in tournaments. =D
Seriously though, those Korean terrans are freaking beasts at this game. =/
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On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 10 2012 12:30 s3rp wrote:
[quote]
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks.
Because Sieged tanks don't move .... . The late Terran army need to avoid the masses of AOE Protoss has with kiting. Sieged tanks kind of not move .... . I mean they barely have more HP then Marauders and can't be healed as easily. THe purpose of Tanks is zoning . Zoning doesn't really work against well upgrades Chargelots.
Lategame Terran also struggles heavly with masses of Chargelots and Siege Tanks help the Toss more then help them against Chargelots thanks to Friendly Fire.
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lmao, was scrolling on down and right before I got to the bolded terran part I was like: "oh they perhaps they got something at the last mome--- lol! owned"
actually kinda feel sorry for terran for once.
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EPT
