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On May 10 2012 11:19 Existor wrote:
Terran
* Bunker is not changed
What?!?
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On May 10 2012 13:16 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:11 psychotics wrote:
Are all the terrans in this thread retarded? Cant deny creep tummors cause the scary queen will poke your helions and scratch the paint? Queens do terrible dps to ground units, takes years to kill 1 helion... 4-6 helions basically can 2 shot a creep tumor? how hard is it to dart in snipe the tumor and run away?? do u really think 2 queens are going to ever ever ever kill your helions if do even bronze level micro? this buff will only effect Bunker rushes. reaper opening are still 100% valid too you dont open reapers to kill drones (if u can its nice) but the main reason is to scout and deny scouting/ creep, again with decent micro u wont ever lose ur reaper to a queen. this isn't going to change much but just make it harder to bunker rush but it can and still will be done. Yeah, you can still slow down Creep and the Third Expo and gain map control with Hellions, the difference is now you can't just retardedly run 4-6 Hellions into a base and just run circles around everything while basically taking no damage. Good patch imo, let the Terrans cry about it all they want, they'll get over it.
except they can still do this too. you moved ur queens to far forward? helions dart in good luck catching them queens. and by the time they are cleaned up ur down 15 drones and still have no creep spread
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On May 10 2012 13:19 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:On May 10 2012 12:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
it means you dont have to mine as much gas, which is more precious than minerals. It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks. Because Sieged tanks don't move .... . The late Terran army need to avoid the masses of AOE Protoss has with kiting. Sieged tanks kind of not move .... . I mean they barely have more HP then Marauders and can't be healed as easily.
They dont need to move if you engage properly, you can put them behind your army and kite back to the safety of seige tanks. There has to be units other than MMMVG to use against protoss late game. Instead of rejecting every unit except those, try to work out a way to use units with insane splash damage late game.
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Again I am really disappointed in Blizzard's decision of not nerfing Terran...
1. Increase bunker build time to 60-70 seconds.
2. Increase Ghost Build cost to 300 min - 150 gas
3. Increase Queen starting energy to 50 - 75
4. Increase Raven build cost to 300 min - 300 gas
5. Increase Tech lab build time to 50 seconds
6. Decrease Collosus build time to 50 seconds
7. Decrease Protoss shield upgrade to 100- 100
8. Decrease Sentry cost to 50 minerals 50 gas
9. Decrease High Templar cost to 50 min 100 gas
10. Observer should not cost any supply
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The more I think about it, the more it seems like these are patch notes for the game 6 months ago
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On May 10 2012 13:12 Dispersion wrote:
Interesting...not sure about the Queen change's necessity. Maybe for hellions? It is, but I don't like it because it eliminates micro. Now you can't slowly pick of the queen.
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It's these sorts of patches that make me want to switch races.
The fact that Terran can no longer apply pressure to Zerg now means a less diversified game and boring match up, and along with that, any 1 base all-in will be scouted guaranteed...
Every race has their early game cheeses and quirks. The proxy 11/11 Rax was the early cheese Terrans had to throw into the game. Protoss has their cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates. Zerg has early pool and Roach rushes. It's what makes StarCraft an interesting game, because of all the possibilities. Terran's been pidgeon-holed way too much with this. This patch is going to be the straw that breaks the Camel's back.
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On May 10 2012 13:24 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:12 Dispersion wrote:
Interesting...not sure about the Queen change's necessity. Maybe for hellions? It is, but I don't like it because it eliminates micro. Now you can't slowly pick of the queen.
It kills the reaper harass against Z completely since Queens quite easily win that fight now. Oh you poor reaper you, no place for you at all
EDIT:
On May 10 2012 13:23 m!st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:19 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:
[quote]
It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks. Because Sieged tanks don't move .... . The late Terran army need to avoid the masses of AOE Protoss has with kiting. Sieged tanks kind of not move .... . I mean they barely have more HP then Marauders and can't be healed as easily. They dont need to move if you engage properly, you can put them behind your army and kite back to the safety of seige tanks. There has to be units other than MMMVG to use against protoss late game. Instead of rejecting every unit except those, try to work out a way to use units with insane splash damage late game.
You can't be serious.. Terran has no "insane splash damage" to use. You can't "kite back to the safety of seige tanks" cause then the immortals just walk up and kill them, not to mention that Charge Zealots are GREAT against tanks too! The strongest defender of Mech v Protoss (Artosis) has even said that they don't have a place except for the early midgame. That's it. Tanks vs protoss lategame are horrible.
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I'm not sure about the patch being necessary.
The overlord change seems to be a compensation for those huge maps where it takes you so long to get to enemy's base, since originally the maps were much smaller.
The queen +2 range makes me sad, really huge buff for early defense. However as a protoss player it hurts me less than a terran player, if terran gets weakened now in TvZ, perhaps a buff to a lategame unit for TvP would be good.
The observer change will make it easier to deal with dts and banshees, but I don't see the need for this change. It's not like protoss couldn't get observers at all, plus usually you would chrono them. Now with chrono, it takes 20 seconds to get an observer out, to compare with zealot 38 build time out of a gateway. It's like making observers instantly made. I don't see the reason for this, just makes protoss life easier against cloaked units. Protoss didn't have any scout problems at all, and 10 seconds don't really do that much to help build more units from robo.
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Phaw...  Joke by OP. Nice.
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im starting to think im masochistic for trying to play terran... Should have stuck to P... I love how they justify Ts shitty lategame by saying it has the best early/midgame, then proceed to nerf said early/mid game with no comment on lategame buffs..
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On May 10 2012 11:19 Existor wrote:
Terran
* Bunker is not changed
Genuine lol. Never gets old.
EDIT: Aw, little disappointed that was OP's joke and not in the official blizzard release, but hey.
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GOod bye to 2 port Banshees ~! At least Destiny will be happy :D
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On May 10 2012 13:23 m!st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:19 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:36 VincendioS wrote:
[quote]
It means the hardest race to spend gas/mineral is Terran. Cause Protoss and Zerg can fucked up their macro and have tons of gas but still use it (sentry/HT or Infest/bl) Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks. Because Sieged tanks don't move .... . The late Terran army need to avoid the masses of AOE Protoss has with kiting. Sieged tanks kind of not move .... . I mean they barely have more HP then Marauders and can't be healed as easily. They dont need to move if you engage properly, you can put them behind your army and kite back to the safety of seige tanks. There has to be units other than MMMVG to use against protoss late game. Instead of rejecting every unit except those, try to work out a way to use units with insane splash damage late game.
TvP has devolved into MMMVG because there is no alternative to it in lategame situations . Siege Tanks barely tickle Zealots and Immortls and hurt your own units more then they hurt those units percentage wise. They do not provide any kind of safety in TvP lategame the toss can just close the distance way too fast . Not to mention you can't expect Terran to upgrade Bio , Air and Mech while the Toss only upgrades ground from 2 forges ...
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Great! This will help scouting problem against terran.
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bunker not changed gave me a laugh. huge patch for zergs though.
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Well I'm glad I 1-rax expanded in TvZ anyway, but the inability to micro hellions to punish queens that got off creep sucks. I think any reactor hellion play will involve less poking and more run-bys, or else pure map control with no pressure. Certainly the constant pressure styles are no longer viable.
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On May 10 2012 13:28 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:23 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:19 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:05 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:59 ig0tfish wrote:On May 10 2012 12:57 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:45 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 12:40 m!st wrote:
[quote]
Easiest to spend minerals, marines. Terrans need to work out a usefull unit to spend that gas on late game. colossi/bl equiv, but what is that? Ravens are pretty good, they are expensive but so are our high tier units. Ravens against lategame Toss ? For what ? PDD only works against Stalkers that no Toss wants to build anyway. The other abilities are a joke. Autoturrets are a gimmick and Seeker Missile needs so much Energy that once the Raven has enough for it Feedback will instantly kill the Raven not to mention the abysmal range it has. Ravens are only useful with Mechbuilds even in the other MU's and guess what sucks against Toss . Yeah you guessed right Mechbuilds. If i feedback a raven, It will be less storms on your army and what range does feedback have? if its the same as storm you will seeker then the feedback will land and then nothing will happen except me getting hit by a seeker missile. It will depend on the speed of the players, which it should unlike snipe, I wish they nerfed snipe range by 1 and put the emp radius and snipe damage back up. Ravens are more expensive than HTs, and building a raven requires a starport with tech lab. you didnt answer most of my question. Yes they are more expensive, but they are the similar to a colossi (cost wise) and I was discussing a way for terrans to spend all their gas late game. I'm sure a large seeker missile hit on my army would be as damaging as a storm on yours.....and the argument that I would just feedback the ravens is just like saying "why get HTs, you will just snipe them". if your floating 2K gas, why not add some high tech units, Zerg and Protoss do :D Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad. Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks. Because Sieged tanks don't move .... . The late Terran army need to avoid the masses of AOE Protoss has with kiting. Sieged tanks kind of not move .... . I mean they barely have more HP then Marauders and can't be healed as easily. They dont need to move if you engage properly, you can put them behind your army and kite back to the safety of seige tanks. There has to be units other than MMMVG to use against protoss late game. Instead of rejecting every unit except those, try to work out a way to use units with insane splash damage late game. TvP has devolved into MMMVG because there is no alternative to it in lategame situations . Siege Tanks barely tickle Zealots and hurt your own units more then they hurt Zealots percentage wise. They do not provide any kinda of safety in TvP lategame . Not to mention you can't expect Terran to upgrade Bio , Air and Mech while the Toss only upgrades ground from 2 forges ...
That is true, 3 kinds of ups wont work, well Do BCs have any place in the MU later on, im sure once your vikings get to 3-0 they are good but if you have spare gas drop a few starports and go BCs, yes Feedback is an issue but thats all up to control. I also think that Resetting the EMP radius buff could help, because infestors are too big for blanket emps and you cant snipe temps/emp all my zeals with such a small emp
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On May 10 2012 13:25 Ewic wrote:
It's these sorts of patches that make me want to switch races.
The fact that Terran can no longer apply pressure to Zerg now means a less diversified game and boring match up, and along with that, any 1 base all-in will be scouted guaranteed...
Every race has their early game cheeses and quirks. The proxy 11/11 Rax was the early cheese Terrans had to throw into the game. Protoss has their cannon rushes and proxy 2 gates. Zerg has early pool and Roach rushes. It's what makes StarCraft an interesting game, because of all the possibilities. Terran's been pidgeon-holed way too much with this. This patch is going to be the straw that breaks the Camel's back.
proxy 11/11 rax will still be very deadly if not scouted and prepared for. for the love of god queens are not going to just kill everything now they are terrible dps THE ONLY difference is the bunker will be harder to get up but not impossible. cheese should be harder to pull off since its supposed to be really risky. i 100% guarentee that you will still see your reactor helions, ur reaper expands and ur 2 rax pressure and even some proxy rax's even after the change
*on a side note Proxy 11/11 hasnt been used much since the rax build time was changed anyways
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On May 10 2012 11:24 SolidMoose wrote:
I still think this patch is totally unnecessary, except MAYBE the overlord speed, That need to fix what actually needs fixing. The queen range isn't even 3-4. It's randomly 3-5.
i doubt it was random.. i would assume it had something to do with the range of enemy units - marines and hellions in particular i would think.
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EPT
