EPTWolf feedback - Page 13
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
On May 09 2012 21:01 MidgetHumper wrote: Personally I cant stand any code A casters and there for just mute the stream. I wait for the korean vods, I'd rather not understand than have to listen to all the negativity. Means I have to dodge spoilers as they're slow to go up. | ||
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Biggun69
187 Posts
It's the GSL, the biggest and most difficult sc2 tournament in the world. People get nervous and are under a lot of pressure to do well and as a result they make mistakes. I think most people have no idea how hard it is to play in a tournament until they actually try it themselves. I have attended several lans and I can tell you its much more difficult playing in front of people and outside the comfort of your home. Casters should definitely focus on the positives of the game and make the players look as good as possible. Because the truth is Wolf casts some of the best players in the world and it is really annoying when he just continuously says they are playing really bad. | ||
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
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Zeaket
United States208 Posts
the players are human. sometimes they make mistakes. very often they make mistakes. the longer the game, the more chance for mistakes. where you don't see an opportunity, they might see a 1% chance of success because they're a GSL player. they're going to go for it if it's their only hope, so do not berate them for staying in the game a little longer than most would simply because they think they have a chance. | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
an example is from todays cast: SuHoShin managed to get some mutas out unscouted and goes to the base of the enemy player. He got 7 mutas and starts working on the mineral line and then he sees 4 marines coming towards him. He retreats and then Khaldor in this case starts saying: "Why is he not attacking the marines, he got enough to take them down" Something all casters should not do is to say what the player should do in certain situations. He could have said: "SuHoShin have enough mutas to take these marines down but he doesent know that there are only 4 marines out on the map so he retreats and play it safe" This is something casters in general are so so bad at. You can see everything that's happening, you know how many workers, how many marines, what the players are producing. The players does not have the same luxuary and it's very easy to say what you should do when you see everything. TL DR; Casters should not try to say what the players should do in certain situation, Saying he should have done X and so on. They can't see the whole map. I only picked Khaldor cause I saw it today and got sick of it so it's freshest example I had in mind. | ||
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
On May 23 2012 22:59 JoeAWESOME wrote: Yeah something all casters should do is not to say: "He should have done this" an example is from todays cast: SuHoShin managed to get some mutas out unscouted and goes to the base of the enemy player. He got 7 mutas and starts working on the mineral line and then he sees 4 marines coming towards him. He retreats and then Khaldor in this case starts saying: "Why is he not attacking the marines, he got enough to take them down" Something all casters should not do is to say what the player should do in certain situations. He could have said: "SuHoShin have enough mutas to take these marines down but he doesent know that there are only 4 marines out on the map so he retreats and play it safe" This is something casters in general are so so bad at. You can see everything that's happening, you know how many workers, how many marines, what the players are producing. The players does not have the same luxuary and it's very easy to say what you should do when you see everything. TL DR; Casters should not try to say what the players should do in certain situation, Saying he should have done X and so on. They can't see the whole map. I completely agree! This should be compulsory reading for every caster! Casters really need to acknoledge fog of war and APM/attention restrictions before criticising players. Even without fog of war, casters are sitting in a chair watching a screen and analysing the game, it is toatally different to playing. Players usually do not have alot of time to think about strategy during a game. In game, your decisions must be made in milliseconds. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On May 23 2012 22:59 JoeAWESOME wrote: Yeah something all casters should do is not to say: "He should have done this" an example is from todays cast: SuHoShin managed to get some mutas out unscouted and goes to the base of the enemy player. He got 7 mutas and starts working on the mineral line and then he sees 4 marines coming towards him. He retreats and then Khaldor in this case starts saying: "Why is he not attacking the marines, he got enough to take them down" Something all casters should not do is to say what the player should do in certain situations. He could have said: "SuHoShin have enough mutas to take these marines down but he doesent know that there are only 4 marines out on the map so he retreats and play it safe" This is something casters in general are so so bad at. You can see everything that's happening, you know how many workers, how many marines, what the players are producing. The players does not have the same luxuary and it's very easy to say what you should do when you see everything. TL DR; Casters should not try to say what the players should do in certain situation, Saying he should have done X and so on. They can't see the whole map. Yeah this is a very good point and happens so often and it can be quite frustrating to listen to. Both Khaldor and Wolf do it often. | ||
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RewBy
Austria4 Posts
I can´t stand one single phrase you are using much too often : This is basically GG Example for today: Vines holds the Terran Push, but a bunker goes up in his natural; then one (I think it was just one) marauder gets in it and you immediately saying: yeah thats basically GG, although Vines has about 6 stalkers and cleans it up easily and the game goes on; of course Vines was a little bit behind, but nowhere near out of the game! Otherwise good caster, be more positive and less critical and it will be fine. | ||
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PiGStarcraft
Australia980 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
On May 23 2012 22:59 JoeAWESOME wrote: Yeah something all casters should do is not to say: "He should have done this" an example is from todays cast: SuHoShin managed to get some mutas out unscouted and goes to the base of the enemy player. He got 7 mutas and starts working on the mineral line and then he sees 4 marines coming towards him. He retreats and then Khaldor in this case starts saying: "Why is he not attacking the marines, he got enough to take them down" Something all casters should not do is to say what the player should do in certain situations. He could have said: "SuHoShin have enough mutas to take these marines down but he doesent know that there are only 4 marines out on the map so he retreats and play it safe" This is something casters in general are so so bad at. You can see everything that's happening, you know how many workers, how many marines, what the players are producing. The players does not have the same luxuary and it's very easy to say what you should do when you see everything. TL DR; Casters should not try to say what the players should do in certain situation, Saying he should have done X and so on. They can't see the whole map. THIS. | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3689 Posts
Never criticise the players, always be positive and supportive of them. It just grates my ears as soon as a caster starts tearing into players. Even if they played pretty badly, make that a plus for the victrious player taking advantage of the situation. Most everything that players do is intentional. Oh, I see you've built two Citadels of Adun, "hmmmm, this is an interesting play, I guess he's making it harder for his opponent to snipe that Zealot Speed/Charge upgrade by halving their chance of succes of targeting the right one. Hey, he's SURE to get that upgrade now! However he may want to allocate his resources a bit better." --> jokes instead of negativity We, as observers, are not in a position to say someone did something dumb like suiciding their entire force on a line of tanks. We can say that's a mistake cause his whole army is dead, sure, but we should make it more of a point of how the player with tanks has a very strong force at that point in time, and now he has a large advantage cause his opponent has no army, not about how the other player is bad. Also, if you've got a big point you're trying to explain, make it brief and don't talk forever. Always prioritise new information and events over general things you wanna say about the map/matchup/theory of which overlord scout direction is best. Get excited when exciting stuff happens, say "this is really important" or "this will decide the shape of the match" when it will, because it adds hype, is something refined and reasonable to say, and if anything it indicates definig moments that stick out, so when someone wins you can refer back to those moments as 'why he won'. As long as you can do it reasonably, don't hesitate to personify the units (even buildings) and give them a humours character e.g. Sayle- "can you imagine the pressure on that zealot to perform now, I mean, he had an entire Templar archives cancelled for him, he's gotta be shaking at least", "here come the Doh-sairs!!1!" [reference to Doh Jae Wook's dangerous Corsairs], 'that hatchery's gotta be so proud of it's kids right now!' leads onto a conversaion about if hatcheries count as partents... TL;DR: Make it fun, make it exciting, make it enjoyable. To me those are prettymuch mutually exclusive with being negative and pooping on the players. A<B, come at it from "B played well" rather than "A was (is) bad". It then also covers your back when people know better than you, or can at least discredit what you say because they've got a higher ladder rank. | ||
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nebffa
Australia776 Posts
On May 23 2012 22:59 JoeAWESOME wrote: Yeah something all casters should do is not to say: "He should have done this" an example is from todays cast: SuHoShin managed to get some mutas out unscouted and goes to the base of the enemy player. He got 7 mutas and starts working on the mineral line and then he sees 4 marines coming towards him. He retreats and then Khaldor in this case starts saying: "Why is he not attacking the marines, he got enough to take them down" Something all casters should not do is to say what the player should do in certain situations. He could have said: "SuHoShin have enough mutas to take these marines down but he doesent know that there are only 4 marines out on the map so he retreats and play it safe" This is something casters in general are so so bad at. You can see everything that's happening, you know how many workers, how many marines, what the players are producing. The players does not have the same luxuary and it's very easy to say what you should do when you see everything. TL DR; Casters should not try to say what the players should do in certain situation, Saying he should have done X and so on. They can't see the whole map. 10000000000000% yes. as bITt.mAN mentioned - this is how the korean commentators do it | ||
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Instead of "Why did he do that? Now he's about to lose the game". I would rather hear pros and cons of the current situation rather than how bad and wrong the players are. I do want to thank you for the effort you put into casting and it has improved a great deal. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
"He's making only one tank! He could be making two tanks instead right now! He's got 5 starports, that means he could be making 5 vikings at the same time! But he's not doing that for some reason!" ...Wolf, he had about 100 gas. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On May 23 2012 23:23 PiGStarcraft wrote: Polt had a really bad lategame that game. I appreciate that wolf realised the errors he was making but its painful to listen to someone be so negative for so long. For some reason when wolf and khaldor cast together they create a negativity vortex in games like this. Could have been much more exciting. But hey they have to commentate for 10x longer then regular sports with no scripting so I can see why it happens! Hmm.. I don't remember hearing that much negativity from Khaldor during that game. I just remember him sounding really excited, which isn't a bad thing because it was an intense game. You might be right though. Tbh, all I remember from the last 30-35 minutes of that game is something along the lines of: Wolf: Oh, Polt is playing so bad. I don't know why he's doing this. Khaldor: THIS IS INSANE! 2 minutes later.. Wolf: Polt is playing so bad. This is the worst lategame I've seen. Khaldor: THIS IS INSANE! THIS IS INSANITY! | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On May 24 2012 03:09 Sein wrote: Hmm.. I don't remember hearing that much negativity from Khaldor during that game. I just remember him sounding really excited, which isn't a bad thing because it was an intense game. You might be right though. Tbh, all I remember from the last 30-35 minutes of that game is something along the lines of: Wolf: Oh, Polt is playing so bad. I don't know why he's doing this. Khaldor: THIS IS INSANE! 2 minutes later.. Wolf: Polt is playing so bad. This is the worst lategame I've seen. Khaldor: THIS IS INSANE! THIS IS INSANITY! Laughing so hard right now. That is so accurate for anyone who watched the game. Exactly what makes Khaldor a great caster (he comments on positive things like Polt getting Seeker missile), while the whole time Wolf is just shitting all over everything the player is doing. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
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