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I feel as though the two sides of this argument are playing out as follows:
1) You shouldn't contact sponsors as it hurts everyone involved along with the entire idea of esports.
2) The sponsors should know what they are supporting with their dollars and so we should contact sponsors and let them when we approve or disapprove of what they are doing with the money we give them for their products.
The issue, as I see it, is this (and here's the tl;dr portion): If the sponsor sponsor's the player directly, go to the sponsor. If the sponsor sponsor's not the player but rather the team, go to the team.
Say, for example, Nony started going off on some racial garbage (which would tooootally happen...he's such a BMer, ya know) - in that example, you have Stride gum that sponsors him directly. In that case, I feel it's perfectly fine to speak with Stride. On the other hand, the sponsors that put up money not for Nony directly but rather for Team Liquid...those sponsors should be left out and the concerns directed to TL. It's terribly harmful to go over a team's head not just for the sport but for the image of the team as a whole...it puts out the idea to the sponsors that said team is incapable of handling their own business.
The actions of one should not harm all. If people go to the team and the team refuses to act, then I think it fine to engage the sponsors as a whole. However, going over the team's head harms everyone...you're blowing up a village to take out one person. So if a company sponsors an individual, feel free to go to that company. If the company sponsors a team, please go to the team...if the team fails to act, THEN climb the ladder.
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On May 08 2012 01:38 Prophanity wrote:
I feel as though the two sides of this argument are playing out as follows:
1) You shouldn't contact sponsors as it hurts everyone involved along with the entire idea of esports.
2) The sponsors should know what they are supporting with their dollars and so we should contact sponsors and let them when we approve or disapprove of what they are doing with the money we give them for their products.
The issue, as I see it, is this (and here's the tl;dr portion): If the sponsor sponsor's the player directly, go to the sponsor. If the sponsor sponsor's not the player but rather the team, go to the team.
Say, for example, Nony started going off on some racial garbage (which would tooootally happen...he's such a BMer, ya know) - in that example, you have Stride gum that sponsors him directly. In that case, I feel it's perfectly fine to speak with Stride. On the other hand, the sponsors that put up money not for Nony directly but rather for Team Liquid...those sponsors should be left out and the concerns directed to TL. It's terribly harmful to go over a team's head not just for the sport but for the image of the team as a whole...it puts out the idea to the sponsors that said team is incapable of handling their own business.
The actions of one should not harm all. If people go to the team and the team refuses to act, then I think it fine to engage the sponsors as a whole. However, going over the team's head harms everyone...you're blowing up a village to take out one person. So if a company sponsors an individual, feel free to go to that company. If the company sponsors a team, please go to the team...if the team fails to act, THEN climb the ladder.
what if team wont do anything
I think that's where we were at.
people didnt go to Quantic's or Complexity's sponsor after Naniwa incident. think about it
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On May 08 2012 01:37 OpticalShot wrote:
Why are people quick to assume that careers were "ruined" because of the community actions/reactions? None of the three mentioned in the OP has been physically or legally forbidden from playing SC2 or casting. I saw a plenty of supportive comments in the threads, indicating that the audience is still there for those players.
A single sponsor/team decision doesn't permanently ruin a career. It may be a temporary setback, but if the fans truly want their idols back in the business, other sponsors and teams will recognize that and act accordingly. Even when Razer received hundreds of emails recently, they could have shrugged it off if that was the better decision.
I wouldn't call it witch hunting - the term reflects a very dark period in history when a certain group of individuals (women) were accused (without "sufficient" proof) of criminal/heretic act(s) that they never committed. In each of the example cases given in the OP, there was sufficient proof that the individuals committed acts that they were accused of. It may be incorrect to label Destiny or Orb as a racist, but it's absolutely true that they made personally directed remarks based on racism.
Naniwa had a good run in Code S. Orb and Destiny will most likely continue to play and stream. I don't see any careers ruined. The true fans will stay with them and support them. Employees don't get paid if the employer says no (for whatever reason), dead simple. There's nothing stopping individuals with unique personalities being themselves on public games and streams, but if that certain personality doesn't go well with the employer, don't expect to be handed money from them.
They're anti-witch hunting. Trying to blow the consequences out of proportion so it is somehow the community's fault for getting X player removed from Y team
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On one hand, going to the sponsers is a dick move. On the other, there are cases where nothing is going to happen unless you do something severe, some instances will never be fixed. Orb probably would have been talked to and told to change his behavior, but Destiny was always on his team because of his personality, if something extreme wouldn't have happened, Quantic probably wasn't going to do shit and even if they did talk to him, he was going to keep on using vile language and saying it was completely ok because it was in a game where people killed each other.
In other words, I think in most cases "witch-hunts" aren't justified because the team will correct the action. In the case where the team doesn't, I think it's good when the community can punish someone for being a dickhead.
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On May 08 2012 01:36 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 01:29 zergmacro34 wrote:On May 08 2012 01:21 Doodsmack wrote:On May 08 2012 00:04 Insurrectionist wrote:On May 07 2012 23:43 crocodile wrote:
The point is NOT that what Destiny did is wrong. The point is that it's NOT okay to fucking email sponsors about it. There are other ways of dealing with this that don't involve potentially cutting off funding for a team that supports players other than Destiny.
Of course it's okay. It's not like the Orb situation where the relevant team might not have known that such language has been thrown around by the player in question (and indeed was used again). Some people care more about the use of slurs and casual racism than they do about e-sports, and for them the fact that Quantic signed Destiny at all after his previous controversies as well as refusing to distance himself from such language would be more than enough to lose faith in and goodwill towards Quantic. The team reaped what they sowed, it's all well and good to say they wanted the player not the personality, but at the end of the day this is simply semantics - they were still supporting Destiny while knowing all about the language he has been comfortable using. Supporting him at all indicates they don't particularly care about his language/slurs only what it might do to their image - and so when a situation such as this arises, you cannot blame people for bypassing Quantic and going straight to the sponsors. Indeed I personally think it's a very effective strategy - it sends a message out to teams that if they're willing to take on players who uses such language and is not apologetic about it, they're taking a big risk. For comparison, I'd say Orb's use of language was fairly obscure prior to it blowing up, so EG being ignorant about it (especially since they had a less close relationship) would be understandable and they should IMO have the opportunity to react before sponsors were contacted. Quantic relinquished this opportunity when they signed someone with Destiny's reputation. And since you and like-minded posters were so morally outraged when Quantic signed such a player, you emailed Razer right when they signed him, right? After all you knew at that point that Quantic knew about Destiny's behavior but signed him anyway. What's that, you waited until some drama got stirred up on the forum to email Razer? You let the incredible injustice of Quantic signing destiny go unpunished for months? Why weren't you watching Destiny's stream months ago and take screenshots and audio clips in order to fight for racial equality? this is exactly right and proves that most of the complainers are bandwagoning, mob-mentality witch hunters with nothing better to do than gain a small taste of power by complaining to a sponsor Maybe they decided to give him a second chance, to see whether he can pull his act together now that he is on a respectable team?
so you only wait for people to join a respectable team before you complain about racism. destiny was fairly popular even before he joined the team, one of the top streamers.
also wasn't orb's witch hunt based on something he did before he joined the team, it was months before wasn't it
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The problem is that the only people with power to truly stop this kind of thing from happening are the moderators and admins of the sites where information is posted. The only way to truly kill the mob mentality is to disallow the "freedom of speech" in regards to these particular topics and have the admins/mods of TL, reddit (do they even have admin/mods?), etc. squelch these types of threads right out. Otherwise we're given biased information to begin with, which is added to by those with personal vendettas against the accused party, overreactions by those who support the accused party, and general trolling along with the general decent responses of the people.
Now this isn't to say the admins/mods SHOULD handle the squelching of this information this way. I'm all for them running their sites how they'd like, and I respect that they stick to their guns. However when a situation like Destiny/Orb comes up(I believe the Naniwa situation had nothing to do with witch hunting), allowing these "conversations" to take place simply allows for the situation to get out of hand without very, VERY careful moderation erring on the side of caution (IE warning posters/deleting posts that are overly zealotous or unnecessary).
The fact of the matter is that the mob mentality grows in online forums whether we want it to or not. I believe that those who contacted sponsors regarding the Destiny/Orb situations are as bad as the comments Destiny/Orb made in the first place (inb4 omg noobity's a racist lolololol), and affects your fellow nerds far more than the use of slurs does. However, businesses will do what they need to do in order to make the most money, and if they have to hear that the community is upset over the use of slurs by someone they may or may not have been following, then that's their prerogative, and not something we'll be able to change.
I want to stress with this post that I mean no disrespect to the mods/admins of the sites mentioned, or to claim to tell them how to do their (in many cases volunteer) job. I simply feel that much more extreme moderation is the only way to combat this witch-hunting problem, and understand that this would be a slippery slope to slide down.
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On May 08 2012 01:33 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 01:27 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 08 2012 01:19 crocodile wrote:
You guys didn't give Quantic one fucking day to react before you started contacting sponsors. Don't come here saying that the team would have done nothing if it wasn't for you crusaders of racial justice riding your high horses to the sponsors. You're basing YOUR argument off of a false premise, which is that Quantic did nothing and so people were forced to go to sponsors, which is absolute utter bullshit and you know it. Implying I actually contacted anyone, which I didn't because I genuinely don't give a crap. But I flat out cannot believe the people white-knighting Destiny here as if he's some innocent to be defended and acting like hiding away racism is somehow a GOOD thing for gaining sponsorship with the logic seemingly being "what they don't know can't hurt them, right?" Quantic hired Destiny in the full knowledge of what he's like. Therefore regardless of their own reasons for doing so they were publicly showing approval of his attitude. Public relations 101. My god. I can't believe that you just willingly choose to ignore logic and spout your useless retarded biased shit. IT'S NOT ABOUT HIDING RACISM. It's about dealing with racism WITHOUT contacting the sponsors because that hurts the livelihoods of EVERYONE ON QUANTIC when contacting Quantic alone would have the same effect. By contacting sponsors you potentially hurt the livelihoods of all of Quantic's SC2 roster, BUT YOU DON'T HURT DESTINY BECAUSE HIS INCOME IS FROM STREAMING.
The problem with this line of thinking is two things:
1) We have every reason to believe that the teams won't do anything about it when you contact them. There are a lot of examples of teams ignoring player conduct issues and very few, if any, of an issue being addressed by a team WITHOUT involving sponsors.
2) As mentioned many times before, this type of behavior can lead to loss of future opportunities for e-sports.
Reason 2 is not an issue if reason 1 is resolved. A reasonable solution would be for major teams to establish objective standards for player behavior that are uniform between them. It might not be a feasible solution, but it would lessen the potential abuse of reporting to sponsors.
The fact is that, unfortunately, the teams are in the position that they have to convince the public that they are taking a stance against these issues.
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People such as Destiny and Orb depend on the community, are loved by the community for who they are and thus hated by the community for who they are ( i refer to parts of the entity that we call "community" here ).
If they do something stupid said community that hates them will irrationally react much like the ones who love them irrationally watch there stream even if they are no the best players or prefer them to cast even if they are not the best caster.
In case of people like Orb and Destiny this is true, and said "witch hunt" will indeed hurt them and there team or sponsors since they relay on the "community" and they make money by being a "community person".
In a case of someone like Naniwa, it will be bad for them, but in the end it will not affect said player enough since they base themselves on there results not on there mouth to "earn there spot in eSports".
Short version:
-if you make money talking than you will be punished for your actions by the ones who support you, which is the community
-if you make money by playing than you won't get in to much trouble for talking since you are not supported by your mouth, you are supported by your result and thus suffer when you don't obtain said results.
You won't stop anyone from going on a "witch hunt", not the guys here, not the guys from reddit... quite frankly is there right to do so and they should be allowed to do it if they fell like it, otherwise how could we "penalize" the non players that make money at the expense of being a "community person" ( I know Destiny is a player but he is mainly a streamer and is popular for being consistent in his streaming and enjoyable to people ).
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If orb and destiny didn't have to be huge bigots, all these would never have happened.
Seriously it was always the root of all these. We wouldn't be picking up all these pitchforks if it wasn't their classless act. Okay name one witch hunt that didn't involve this kind of bigotry.
"Hey they have the right to say those, it's freedom of speech"
Yeah well I have the right to inform their sponsors either.
"That's killing esports!"
If esports was all about promoting racial slurs. I might as well just burn it to the ground
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On May 08 2012 01:44 zergmacro34 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 01:36 JustPassingBy wrote:On May 08 2012 01:29 zergmacro34 wrote:On May 08 2012 01:21 Doodsmack wrote:On May 08 2012 00:04 Insurrectionist wrote:On May 07 2012 23:43 crocodile wrote:
The point is NOT that what Destiny did is wrong. The point is that it's NOT okay to fucking email sponsors about it. There are other ways of dealing with this that don't involve potentially cutting off funding for a team that supports players other than Destiny.
Of course it's okay. It's not like the Orb situation where the relevant team might not have known that such language has been thrown around by the player in question (and indeed was used again). Some people care more about the use of slurs and casual racism than they do about e-sports, and for them the fact that Quantic signed Destiny at all after his previous controversies as well as refusing to distance himself from such language would be more than enough to lose faith in and goodwill towards Quantic. The team reaped what they sowed, it's all well and good to say they wanted the player not the personality, but at the end of the day this is simply semantics - they were still supporting Destiny while knowing all about the language he has been comfortable using. Supporting him at all indicates they don't particularly care about his language/slurs only what it might do to their image - and so when a situation such as this arises, you cannot blame people for bypassing Quantic and going straight to the sponsors. Indeed I personally think it's a very effective strategy - it sends a message out to teams that if they're willing to take on players who uses such language and is not apologetic about it, they're taking a big risk. For comparison, I'd say Orb's use of language was fairly obscure prior to it blowing up, so EG being ignorant about it (especially since they had a less close relationship) would be understandable and they should IMO have the opportunity to react before sponsors were contacted. Quantic relinquished this opportunity when they signed someone with Destiny's reputation. And since you and like-minded posters were so morally outraged when Quantic signed such a player, you emailed Razer right when they signed him, right? After all you knew at that point that Quantic knew about Destiny's behavior but signed him anyway. What's that, you waited until some drama got stirred up on the forum to email Razer? You let the incredible injustice of Quantic signing destiny go unpunished for months? Why weren't you watching Destiny's stream months ago and take screenshots and audio clips in order to fight for racial equality? this is exactly right and proves that most of the complainers are bandwagoning, mob-mentality witch hunters with nothing better to do than gain a small taste of power by complaining to a sponsor Maybe they decided to give him a second chance, to see whether he can pull his act together now that he is on a respectable team? so you only wait for people to join a respectable team before you complain about racism. destiny was fairly popular even before he joined the team, one of the top streamers. also wasn't orb's witch hunt based on something he did before he joined the team, it was months before wasn't it
the orb "witch hunt" wasn't because he said the word once months ago, it was that he fucking denied it was him and tried to weasel out of any responsibility for his actions
the thing is, if orb had just straight up apologized he'd probably still be working for EG. for example, a popular personality on a videogame website said the word "faggot" in a fit of frustration during a live stream on friday. yet there isn't an internet "witch hunt" to lose him his job. want to know why? as soon as it happened, he realized what he had just done, and profusely apologized for it. he immediately owned up to what he had just done. imagine that.
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I would never contact sponsors myself, because I could care less about what the casters/streamers say.
But that being said, who are we to judge what the others can do? Fact of the matter is, when you are working for a corporation, in any jobs (SC2 included), you are representing them at all times, even when you're off work, especially when you're publicly exposing yourself (such as via streams).
How do you know a few others aren't really hurt by the language? For example, what if someone IS really a retard, and they were happen to be watching that game? What if some of the racist comments happened to really hit someone hard? These people have every rights legally and humanly to complain for actions to be taken, so who are we to judge what they should and shouldn't do?
Seriously, the only one to blame are the people who acted that way to begin with. No one can complain about you if you never do anything wrong; There are literally hundreds of streamers and casters, why is it only one or two people that this happened to?
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Regular people need witch hunts. The hunted used to be witches, jews, gays & drug users. Guess the time has come to hunt people who lose their temper and use harsch language. Soon people will be shot in the streets for having the wrong clothes ^^
It all springs from peoples irrational need to make life appear fair. Why can he when I can't and such bs.
THIS ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE THEY WERE FAMOUS. The proper response would have been to use the ingame reporting system. It was up to blizzard to close or not close their account. As I understood it most of this happened in regular ladder games. If it was streamed. It was up to each and every viewer to view or not view that caster.
Running and telling someones mommy. You know what they do to snitches in prison right?
However this will not go away. People are people. Larvals do what larvals do and the majority will not be post larval in our life time.
How about and this might be a big leap for you to take. Everyone took responsibility for their own actions? If you don't like a caster stop watching. If someone harrasses you on the ladder report him to blizzard.
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I'd like to add that neither of the 2 main witch-hunt scenarios that I've noticed in the past 4 months or so gave any time to the teams to address issues. The Destiny situation for example happened over the course of 2, maybe 3 days? That's less time than most worldwide business chains take to get back to me when I send a customer service request. The arguments about the teams not being willing to do anything are pointless, as the community doesn't want to give them time to handle it.
Where is the evidence of emails sent to these guys' teams when they joined up regarding their conduct? We assume that because we as a community don't like their conduct (I personally couldn't care less) someone must have at some point contacted their teams before and because nothing was done the teams don't care. I have not seen a single screenshot or piece of evidence showing that these teams had been contacted previously. Innocent until proven guilty is a motto of the American court system for a reason. Throwing emails casually to sponsors about a player is accusing teams of guilt of not taking care of their own business without any proof. Destiny joined Quantic in what, October? Can anyone show proof of an email sent to Quantic about his behavior since then that was simply ignored?
This is where we as a community are the most hurtful and unthinking/unfeeling.
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On May 08 2012 02:00 Noobity wrote:
I'd like to add that neither of the 2 main witch-hunt scenarios that I've noticed in the past 4 months or so gave any time to the teams to address issues. The Destiny situation for example happened over the course of 2, maybe 3 days? That's less time than most worldwide business chains take to get back to me when I send a customer service request. The arguments about the teams not being willing to do anything are pointless, as the community doesn't want to give them time to handle it.
Where is the evidence of emails sent to these guys' teams when they joined up regarding their conduct? We assume that because we as a community don't like their conduct (I personally couldn't care less) someone must have at some point contacted their teams before and because nothing was done the teams don't care. I have not seen a single screenshot or piece of evidence showing that these teams had been contacted previously. Innocent until proven guilty is a motto of the American court system for a reason. Throwing emails casually to sponsors about a player is accusing teams of guilt of not taking care of their own business without any proof. Destiny joined Quantic in what, October? Can anyone show proof of an email sent to Quantic about his behavior since then that was simply ignored?
This is where we as a community are the most hurtful and unthinking/unfeeling.
are you saying Quantic didn't know about Destiny's racial slurs? All along?
people found that hard to believe.
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The witch hunts and turning flies into elephants will not stop. At some point people noticed that if they go as far as complaining to sponsors usually is the easiest way of enforcing their opinion (and not necessarily everyones opinion). Seeing people go this far makes me really lose faith in humanity, because really this is not about saving esports, but about enjoying the feeling of having power over something. In other words, people that go running to sponsor are pathetic individuals.
If we want sponsors to stay and continue to invest into competitive gaming, we have to show them that we have the ability to solve problems on our own and not to hopelessly come running the ones who make all of this possible. I don't understand how it is not possible to stay calm in these situations and wait for an reaction by the team or employer.
Also, the sponsors know what scene they invest into. Everybody knows the cliché of the "gamer kiddy" going insane over a game spewing out nothing but nonsensical insults.
I cannot believe that sponsors pressure solutions to these issues because they fear that some random guy on the Internet (who is only really watched by people who know him like that anyways) might hurt their brand, but because they fear the mob outside their door of entirely unaffected people going insane.
Of course racism and other (really) unprofessional behavior are unacceptable, but if someone would like esports to continue growing, it should be considered that showing a professional scene that can solve its problems (on its own) and that is made up of mentally mature individuals to the sponsors is much more likely to convince them that they are investing into something worthwhile.
If we come across as a bunch of crybabies the sponsors will be gone sooner or later. But at least then it would be "quiet" again and this nonsense would not continue to happen.
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All 3 ¨witch hunts¨ were because those guys screwed up.
¨We¨ didn´t fire nobody, they did.
And besides tell me whats exactly wrong with people complaining about stuff they don´t like. People are not allowed to say stuff unless its 100% praise and smiles.
I doubt this will scare sponsors it just shows them that people care. And stop pretending that ¨We¨ are a Hive mentality, we are not. I never wrote to any sponsors.
E: Maybe if the teams had responded quickly people wouldn´t have felt the need to e mail sponsors. Stop blaming the ¨hive mind¨ for the screwups of other people.
And it might sound weird to you but *gasp* in real life people go as far as boycotting a product over stuff like this or even less.
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On May 08 2012 02:04 Govou wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2012 02:00 Noobity wrote:
I'd like to add that neither of the 2 main witch-hunt scenarios that I've noticed in the past 4 months or so gave any time to the teams to address issues. The Destiny situation for example happened over the course of 2, maybe 3 days? That's less time than most worldwide business chains take to get back to me when I send a customer service request. The arguments about the teams not being willing to do anything are pointless, as the community doesn't want to give them time to handle it.
Where is the evidence of emails sent to these guys' teams when they joined up regarding their conduct? We assume that because we as a community don't like their conduct (I personally couldn't care less) someone must have at some point contacted their teams before and because nothing was done the teams don't care. I have not seen a single screenshot or piece of evidence showing that these teams had been contacted previously. Innocent until proven guilty is a motto of the American court system for a reason. Throwing emails casually to sponsors about a player is accusing teams of guilt of not taking care of their own business without any proof. Destiny joined Quantic in what, October? Can anyone show proof of an email sent to Quantic about his behavior since then that was simply ignored?
This is where we as a community are the most hurtful and unthinking/unfeeling. are you saying Quantic didn't know about Destiny's racial slurs? All along? people found that hard to believe.
I'm saying that companies/teams work around public opinion, and we're a community who's opinions/desires aren't easy to gauge sometimes. While yes, they may have known explicitly about what Destiny was saying, if it's not an issue the community has a huge problem with, they can spend their time handling other problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'm not saying it's right, I am saying that we can't assume anything, and unless we're willing to take the time and effort to be sure something is done, or that our concerns are known, then we can't expect it to be fixed.
EDIT to add: and if we want it to be fixed, we should show the teams enough respect to give them the chance to attempt to handle it.
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On May 08 2012 02:12 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 02:04 Govou wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2012 02:00 Noobity wrote:
I'd like to add that neither of the 2 main witch-hunt scenarios that I've noticed in the past 4 months or so gave any time to the teams to address issues. The Destiny situation for example happened over the course of 2, maybe 3 days? That's less time than most worldwide business chains take to get back to me when I send a customer service request. The arguments about the teams not being willing to do anything are pointless, as the community doesn't want to give them time to handle it.
Where is the evidence of emails sent to these guys' teams when they joined up regarding their conduct? We assume that because we as a community don't like their conduct (I personally couldn't care less) someone must have at some point contacted their teams before and because nothing was done the teams don't care. I have not seen a single screenshot or piece of evidence showing that these teams had been contacted previously. Innocent until proven guilty is a motto of the American court system for a reason. Throwing emails casually to sponsors about a player is accusing teams of guilt of not taking care of their own business without any proof. Destiny joined Quantic in what, October? Can anyone show proof of an email sent to Quantic about his behavior since then that was simply ignored?
This is where we as a community are the most hurtful and unthinking/unfeeling. are you saying Quantic didn't know about Destiny's racial slurs? All along? people found that hard to believe. I'm saying that companies/teams work around public opinion, and we're a community who's opinions/desires aren't easy to gauge sometimes. While yes, they may have known explicitly about what Destiny was saying, if it's not an issue the community has a huge problem with, they can spend their time handling other problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm not saying it's right, I am saying that we can't assume anything, and unless we're willing to take the time and effort to be sure something is done, or that our concerns are known, then we can't expect it to be fixed.
Yeah because people not liking Destiny's use of racial slurs came out of nowhere. *rollseyes*
Quantic knew what they were getting into.
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I think its refreshing to see an industry where the consumer base has such power. Whether the complaints are legitimate or not, I think it's good that we are listened to. However I wonder if examples like the op posted are the result of a vocal minority, and even so, as long as they are legitimate complaints its fine, imho.
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On May 08 2012 02:09 windsupernova wrote:
All 3 ¨witch hunts¨ were because those guys screwed up.
¨We¨ didn´t fire nobody, they did.
And besides tell me whats exactly wrong with people complaining about stuff they don´t like. People are not allowed to say stuff unless its 100% praise and smiles.
I doubt this will scare sponsors it just shows them that people care. And stop pretending that ¨We¨ are a Hive mentality, we are not. I never wrote to any sponsors.
I agree with this post. I think it's important to deal with issues like racism and sexism. They do arise in a community with mainly young males. The fact that these issues are discussed and public figures face consequences for their actions is a positive sign more than a negative one. The gaming community has long been criticized for not being able to deal with these issues. Declaring something a witch-hunt isn't a positive thing on the other hand. It is putting a negative label on something that doesn't inherently have to be negative.
I also find it dangerous to diminish the opinion of individuals by saying stuff like Hive mentality. When I do vocalize an opinion, I do because I personally feel that I should do that. It doesn't have anything to do with a hive mentality. This sort of rhetoric is not helpful in a discussion.
The way these situations have been discussed wasn't always ideal (far from that) but the fact that there was discussion was and is great.
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EPT
