EPTIf everybody cares this much, maybe someone should write a letter of acknowledgement to the sponsor and or Quantic. A letter where to community shows their support for both the sonsor and the team, regardless of th previous issues with Destiny. Just let everybody who feels that way sign the letter. Maybe we can all feel a little better.
[Rant]/[D] Witch Hunting and 'eSports' - Page 14
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
If everybody cares this much, maybe someone should write a letter of acknowledgement to the sponsor and or Quantic. A letter where to community shows their support for both the sonsor and the team, regardless of th previous issues with Destiny. Just let everybody who feels that way sign the letter. Maybe we can all feel a little better. | ||
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:09 windsupernova wrote: All 3 ¨witch hunts¨ were because those guys screwed up. ¨We¨ didn´t fire nobody, they did. And besides tell me whats exactly wrong with people complaining about stuff they don´t like. People are not allowed to say stuff unless its 100% praise and smiles. I doubt this will scare sponsors it just shows them that people care. And stop pretending that ¨We¨ are a Hive mentality, we are not. I never wrote to any sponsors. E: Maybe if the teams had responded quickly people wouldn´t have felt the need to e mail sponsors. Stop blaming the ¨hive mind¨ for the screwups of other people. And it might sound weird to you but *gasp* in real life people go as far as boycotting a product over stuff like this or even less. I completely agree with this. The notion of a "witch-hunt" being executed for these people is absolutely ridiculous and out-of-context. I would argue however, that teams shouldn't even need to respond to incidents like this, because they shouldn't be happening in the first place if the streamer/player/caster in question had some amount of class and respect for themselves and this community. You can argue all you want about people being able to express themselves, and that's fine, but broadcasting ignorant remarks like we've heard from these guys, even in anger, is completely unacceptable. Even if it's done on the ladder, I don't want to support anyone ignorant and uneducated enough to be using racials slurs as generic insults as if it means "stupid" or "dumb". Have some respect for the people who aren't as stoic and who might have had bad experiences being insulted or demeaned with words to their face or behind their back. Even if you aren't "racist", do you really want your potential fans to have that be a question in their minds? And don't put that kind of language out there for sponsors and the outside world to incidentally see and make judgments about the rest of us. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
There are witch hunts against people who for the most part need to be punished. Mind you I don't condone what people are doing and by the way I think these witch hunts are a waste of energy. BUT to be fair lots of people were offended by racism AND the people who were being racist were actually told beforehand that this was unacceptable behavior my the community. The thing is they didn't change their behavior and refused to ( in destiny's case he even advocated using the language and defended himself I believe orb was just angry) . In NaNiwas case I feel like the the pro gamer should cater to the wants/ need of the audience especially since they are the ones that provide them a job! In short there were a few alternatives he could of done such as cheese etc he should not of threw a game like he did but nor do I feel like he should have played it . It came down to bad format and they gained nothing from playing that game. Ill stop talkin about it there cause it has already been talked to death. EDIT as a side note Emailing sponsers is not the way to go about it things can be dealt with in the community. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On May 08 2012 01:20 crocodile wrote: E-sports IS different because it's an infant industry. It doesn't have the deep rooted powerful sponsorships and contracts that the NFL, NBA etc have. If you kill the already small numbers of e-sports sponsors, you kill e-sports. What part of that is difficult to understand? The part I don't get is the part where the companies are intimately connected to esports and lack other marketing opportunities to publicize their image. Who is going to buy a $50 mousepad who isn't a hardcore gamer? (Not me, I use my desk and it seems to work fine.) I had never heard of Razer before I started following SC2 and still wouldn't have if they didn't sponsor so many teams/events. Razer's slogan is "for gamers, by gamers" they need to develop brand awareness and these team sponsorships are one of the few places they can get it. By that same token, companies like Intel have difficulty reaching their target markets for high end gaming products. Particularly since gamers play games, instead of exposing themselves to other, more traditional advertising mediums where the costs to advertise. Despite all of this screaming about "killing esports" contacting sponsors seems to get a response from the team management fairly quickly and from their statements, heavy pressure from sponsors is what leads to real action. Until I see one sponsor actually pull from a team due to a "witch hunt" I'm going to rest soundly knowing you don't understand the reliance of these companies on promoting brand awareness to a niche market through sponsorships. | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:12 Noobity wrote: I'm saying that companies/teams work around public opinion, and we're a community who's opinions/desires aren't easy to gauge sometimes. While yes, they may have known explicitly about what Destiny was saying, if it's not an issue the community has a huge problem with, they can spend their time handling other problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm not saying it's right, I am saying that we can't assume anything, and unless we're willing to take the time and effort to be sure something is done, or that our concerns are known, then we can't expect it to be fixed. EDIT to add: and if we want it to be fixed, we should show the teams enough respect to give them the chance to attempt to handle it. while I agree with your approach on most problem, racism is such a delicate matter and a social taboo. Quantic took a dangerous bet with Destiny and it just blew up. It was totally fine to assume Quantic allowed racial slurs to occur all those time because they thought it was 'ok'. remember that the community did not go to sponsor when the Naniwa incident happened. Racial slurs are a whole different beast. Quantic played with the fire and it was their fault. | ||
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KingOfAmerica
United States246 Posts
This whole warped mindset where it is OK to say things like the N-word because it is the internet and that stuff happens here is so silly. Get over yourself, and try to understand that you ARE obligated to adhere to a couple of basic societal norms, and if you choose to ignore them then stuff like this happens. This "it isn't so bad to say stuff like this on the internet, I say this stuff when I lose" attitude is so common that I am truly disturbed by it. Yeah, rage after your loss, we all do it. But if you can identify with for example the things that Orb was saying, I think you have real issues you need to address. I was 100% behind Orb getting canned. I don't agree with going to Razer to bitch about Destiny (I think as a community this can all be handled in house), but I do agree that if you want to represent a major organization like then you are entirely accountable for the things you say. I think that this issue is entirely separate from the Naniwa issue (which is now a complete non-issue), and I am not sure why it is even included. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On May 07 2012 22:00 Telcontar wrote: It's not a witch hunt if someone is called out for their wrongdoing. As for destiny's case, yes, some seem to be overreacting a tad bit, but it's not a witch hunt. If you are a professional (and a public one at that), there are certain responsibilities that automatically comes with it. Not using racial slurs, regardless of context or occassion, is one of them. Another one would be respecting your followers, peers, and employers. Naniwa got so much flak because he shat on all 3 with his petulance. I will admit that more than a few went overboard with their criticisms, but if you make a big mistake, you should pay for it, if only to learn from it. Thanks a lot for this post! Exactly my thoughts. Guys, were are talking professional gaming here. You stream as part of Your job? Yup, think about Your words. You stream as a private person while drunk? No one should care... | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
How is it that this has devolved from an actual discussion, to the whistle blowers going into semantics of the wording used by the OP...? Guess they have to get their win in one way or another. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
 Problem mitigated lol | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
It's not that I accept just someone whining "oh I am offended!" Some words are out of proportion. They were misused too often. They should not be used. Any excuse to use them seems invalid compared with the context. I respect Destiny for his play and his understanding of the game and for his musical abilities. Though he is smart (smarter than me, I guess) he also BMs and overuses words like "fuck". Okay, fuck him for using "fuck". Using "nigger" however is just bad. He shouldn't do that. I am still watching the stream any time he streams and I want to watch a zerg stream, but I really think he should take the time to reflect on the use of certain words. | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:35 Dosey wrote: Then why not contact Quantic, let them know about the issue and in the message you can put your threat (because we all know you like to feel important with your threats) that if you don't see some sort of response you WILL go to the sponsor and force their hand? Wouldn't that be just as effective? How is it that this has devolved from an actual discussion, to the whistle blowers going into semantics of the wording used by the OP...? Guess they have to get their win in one way or another. Stop with the strawman arguments. Not all people who complain do it to "feel important". And Lol Whistle blowers? Really? All I see you is using strawman arguments. | ||
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:35 Dosey wrote: Then why not contact Quantic, let them know about the issue and in the message you can put your threat (because we all know you like to feel important with your threats) that if you don't see some sort of response you WILL go to the sponsor and force their hand? Wouldn't that be just as effective? How is it that this has devolved from an actual discussion, to the whistle blowers going into semantics of the wording used by the OP...? Guess they have to get their win in one way or another. Who are you even speaking to here? A witch-hunt is regarded as "referring to the act of seeking and persecuting any perceived enemy, particularly when the search is conducted using extreme measures and with little regard to actual guilt or innocence." So unfortunately, people are right in calling out the semantics of the OP. Everyone here did what everyone is "persecuting" them for (although the whole Naniwa thing is way different). | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:44 windsupernova wrote: Stop with the strawman arguments. Not all people who complain do it to "feel important". And Lol Whistle blowers? Really? All I see you is using strawman arguments. Then why even go to the sponsor? Why not do as I suggested? Why defend your "right" to go to the sponsor? | ||
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TrickyGilligan
United States641 Posts
Now, what worries me is this seems to be the only time that people contact sponsors. So as far as I can tell, 100% of the e-mails that sponsors get for their trouble is about how terrible eSports is. I think we need to restructure our conversation. It's bad to ONLY e-mail sponsors about negative things in the community, and it's legitimately hurting eSports. However, if we as a community all take the time to e-mail teams and sponsors about the overwhelming amount of positive stuff that they do for the community, it will make eSports look like a good investment (which it is) and vastly outweigh the occasional bad apple. So if you support a company that in turn supports eSports, please, let them know about it. It might not seem like it matters, but I can assure those e-mails actually do get read, and do mean a lot. | ||
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HorsemasterK
United States606 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:46 Dosey wrote: Then why even go to the sponsor? Why not do as I suggested? Why defend your "right" to go to the sponsor? Maybe then teams will think twice before recruiting players known to use racist/homophobic/sexist language publicly? | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:46 Dosey wrote: Then why even go to the sponsor? Why not do as I suggested? Why defend your "right" to go to the sponsor? Because going to the sponsor is the only real way we have to really pressure a team over an issue? | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:48 TrickyGilligan wrote: I think we're arguing the wrong thing here. These cases involved mistakes made by casters/players, which the community alerted sponsors to, and then the teams/sponsors decided to pull the plug. The community was the catalyst, but they didn't make any descisions on their own. Now, what worries me is this seems to be the only time that people contact sponsors. So as far as I can tell, 100% of the e-mails that sponsors get for their trouble is about how terrible eSports is. I think we need to restructure our conversation. It's bad to ONLY e-mail sponsors about negative things in the community, and it's legitimately hurting eSports. However, if we as a community all take the time to e-mail teams and sponsors about the overwhelming amount of positive stuff that they do for the community, it will make eSports look like a good investment (which it is) and vastly outweigh the occasional bad apple. So if you support a company that in turn supports eSports, please, let them know about it. It might not seem like it matters, but I can assure those e-mails actually do get read, and do mean a lot. Proof of that claim? I kinda think its different: "Hey guys, I buy Umbrella products but you are sponsoring X or Y person who did Z or W and that will affect all my futur purchases" "Hey guys e sports is terrible stop sponsoring e sports" And people do contact Sponsors to tell them how much they like that they are sponsoring X or Y. Stop ignoring all the good while higlighting all the "bad". And stop using the #hurtingesporst argument, if anything this shows to the sponsors that people care enough about their team and brandname that they feel the need to contact them. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:50 windsupernova wrote: Because going to the sponsor is the only real way we have to really pressure a team over an issue? So the threat to report them to a sponsor wouldn't work? How so? They obviously know you are serious. Fact is, if it is solved internally after your initial threat, there is no major backlash and you dont feel the importance that you feel now. All eyes are on you and your ilk because you had a hand in the current incident. You now feel important. If you send a quiet e-mail to quantic about Destiny and he is barred from the next event and doesnt stream for a month... people just assume he went MIA. You can't come to the forums and announce "IT WAS ME MUAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH I SHUT DOWN THAT IGNORANT PRICK I DID IT IT WAS MEEEEEEEEE" | ||
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