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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
I think it's sad and selfish that the people behind these witch-hunts are taken seriously. We're going to hit a state where every progamer is afraid to interact with the community for fear of offending somebody. I think we're going to hit a state where every progamer is afraid to use racist language on their stream. | ||
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CidO
United States695 Posts
The funny thing is, people still seem to think they matter to the pros. They're professionals. They do this for a living. That doesn't mean they need to act polite. Polite does not equal professional. Professional is getting results. Anywho, see you all again in 4-6 weeks when another witchhunt happens for someone acting "crazy" and everyone switches from extreme love to extreme hate for 2-3 days and then forgets it ever happens, until the next witchhunt. | ||
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Falcor
Canada894 Posts
When all those incidents happened the sponsors were most likely aware of them and was waiting to see the teams response or emailed the team saying w/e and then the teams act accordingly. Thats how sponsorships in the real world work. But emailing a sponsor saying i'm not buying your shit because of this just made a bad situation worse. Not only did they have extra drama and pr to deal with now they have potential sales lost staring them in the face, when sponsorships currently don't pay off for the sponsors i'd assume | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:46 nkr wrote: I think we're going to hit a state where every progamer is afraid to use racist language on their stream. lol people in the community get uppity when ANYTHING is said, not just racist comments. People got mad when DJWheat said 'bitches'. People get mad when people show personality in interviews. | ||
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Falcor
Canada894 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:52 Dfgj wrote: lol people in the community get uppity when ANYTHING is said, not just racist comments. People got mad when DJWheat said 'bitches'. People get mad when people show personality in interviews. People get mad when someone says anything that could be offensive to anyone. Remember when saying rape was the big thing that was totally unnacceptable. Its going to come to a point where there isn't going to be personalities or fan interaction. Its going to be pros show up to play games, they win/lose they do a ceramony and then they leave. I think my fav broodwar was when the singer played with a pro team trying to get his liscense because you actually saw the gamer's personality which you rarely got to see in bw | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:46 nkr wrote: I think we're going to hit a state where every progamer is afraid to use racist language on their stream. Is this supposed to be a bad thing? | ||
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khaydarin9
Australia423 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:44 Dosey wrote: Is that not EXACTLY what everyone *for* going to sponsors saying? "Don't give us the ammunition to do it and we wont" I was just pointing out how similar these whistle blowers are to some of the "most vile" internet bullies. And I was pointing out how the analogy you made - and continue to make - is irrelevant. In most cases involving the distribution of naked photos, I'm inclined to believe the general moral consensus would be "he's an asshole for putting them on the internet, but the lesson learned here is, don't pose naked for boys'. No doubt these so-called whistleblowers didn't really expect things to turn out well for Destiny, but the lesson to be learned here is: don't be deliberately offensive in a professional environment. EDIT: To clarify, there is no referent for "cheating" in this situation. The ammunition in this scenario is the inappropriate language, and in the analogy, is the photos. | ||
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treekiller
United States236 Posts
This things might be good for the video game industry, but thats not the same as E-Sports. More corporate control of video games means ultimately more dumbing down. The best E-Sporst titles occurred by the community taking a game out of what some company intended it to be. CS 1.6 came from essentially nothing, The original game was not intended to be that hard at all. Do you really think Blizzard intended BW to be the hardest game of all time? DotA was a salvage of War3, a mediocre game. We should be discussing the merits of the game, and the players not the manufactured drama. This is the cable-news-ification, the reality-tv-ization of media gets in the way of interesting content. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:49 CidO wrote: Glad to see more people realizing how overzealous the SC2 community can be. I've never seen such mob mentality of all my time on the internet. Did you see how quick people went from "I <3 destiny, he is so crazy" to omg racist? Why? A few weeks ago they'd be all over him? He's the same guy? He jokes around the same? The funny thing is, people still seem to think they matter to the pros. They're professionals. They do this for a living. That doesn't mean they need to act polite. Polite does not equal professional. Professional is getting results. Anywho, see you all again in 4-6 weeks when another witchhunt happens for someone acting "crazy" and everyone switches from extreme love to extreme hate for 2-3 days and then forgets it ever happens, until the next witchhunt. Your first paragraph is definitely a huge assumption that the people who love him were the same people who called him out. That's totally wrong. When a player does something wrong, the anti-fans come crawling out and become a vocal voice. There are probably only a select few who were fans and actually started to hate him after this incident | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
some of you are just out of touch with reality. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
Read between the lines -_- | ||
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oldie8
8 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On May 08 2012 01:06 awu25 wrote: Your first paragraph is definitely a huge assumption that the people who love him were the same people who called him out. That's totally wrong. When a player does something wrong, the anti-fans come crawling out and become a vocal voice. There are probably only a select few who were fans and actually started to hate him after this incident I never really liked Destiny or cared for his excessive vulgarity... Guess what I didn't do? Watch his stream. Why are people gravitating towards the Destiny situation and away from orb to defend their reasoning for going directly to the sponsors anyway? | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:28 Nimic wrote: I reject the premise that it was a bad idea to contact sponsors, in some cases. Not Orb, perhaps, but certainly Destiny. Yes, it should have been left to the team to deal with it. But they knew about it, and they didn't. Also, I don't see how any amount of extra information can be a bad thing. If sponsors aren't willing to knowingly sponsor people who use that kind of language, then the answer isn't to hide it from them, it's to stop using that kind of language. It's a bit like a politician complaining about a newspaper making his affair public. This, so so much. Honestly I'm absolutely blown away by the fact that people are STILL SAYING "oh you shouldn't tell the sponsors, it hurts e-sports". Which do you think is more likely to put sponsors off: being informed by the community that one of their representatives is acting inappropriately? Or suddenly and unexpectedly finding out that they're sponsoring people whose idea of a laugh is spouting racist language because the community tolerates that kind of thing and just keeps quiet? Which is more likely to make them simply drop the player/team in question and which is more likely to make them think "my god, we don't want to be associated with anyone in this kind of community, it'll harm our company image" and quit out of sponsorship entirely? | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On May 08 2012 00:00 sick_transit wrote: It never ceases to amaze me the amount of time and energy people spend on this site defending and/or debating what is obviously bad behavior. If you want to play custom games with your friends, by all means call them all the names you want. If you want to be a professional--i.e., get paid--then prepare to be held to ordinary standards of professional conduct. This goes for players, casters, managers, teams, and anyone else. In the modern world, in which we happen to live, this is not just true for all professional sports, it is true for all jobs. I think most of the actual professionals in this industry get this because they are grown-ups and live in the grown-up world. Many people on this site appear to still be figuring it out. That's not what this is discussion is about. For someone who appears to think they're a grown-up, you sure don't do a good job of finding out what the fuck is going on around you. The issue is whether or not you contact sponsors, not whether the player's actions are justifiable. I'll make it easier for you: from here on, assume we all equally disapprove of Destiny/Orb/Naniwa's behavior; the debate is whether or not we should go to sponsors first or go to Quantic/EG. I have not heard a good argument for the former, because everyone arguing the former simply argues that the rest of us are supporting racism. On May 07 2012 23:52 kuroshiro wrote: You don't need to treat sponsors like glass chandeliers. They are by-and-large astute business men with enough worldly experience to understand these situations. They're not gonna pull sponsorship from an entire team because of the actions of one member if they can just deal with the one member instead (ring any bells?). This is because the sponsorship is a business transaction that benefits them as well as the team. If teams are struggling to find sponsors it's not because of standard "dirty-laundry" stuff like this, it's because esports is a business model that's untested. You most likely have never worked with e-sports sponsors or teams, and you therefore have no idea what you're talking about. Incontrol, who does work with sponsors and teams REGULARLY and knows how this shit works, has urged the community on numerous occasions not to bring sponsors into issues like this, but rather to contact the team. Do you have some knowledge of the workings of the e-sports business model that someone like Incontrol does not? | ||
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whiterabbit
2675 Posts
Both of them are very responsible for everything that happened to them. Orb fucked up any possibility to get symphathy from community or EG after he tried to cover up, lie and find bad excuses for his act(s). Destiny made fans on bad foundation from the start and kept acting like he usually do no matter what; and when, finally, part of community got annoyed by that he chose to argue/justify his behavior instead of toning it down. I watch Destiny only when there is no other GM Zerg streaming and I watch his stream mostly muted. About two weeks ago I watched him going from game to game insulting his opponents without stop for HOURS. From the moment he joins the game to the end he would spam insults in front of about 3k viewers. I was so confused I even posted at his TL Stream page asking what is happening ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124660¤tpage=145#2892 ) because there was no logical explanation why he is acting like that. And every next time I joined his stream I witnessed some kid of bahavior that incorporated general insulting or using racial/homophobic slurs. So people, do you really think one day when eSports grow 5-10 times of what is it today there should be place for players or community figures like Destiny? Or do you think eSports will grow as fast if we nurture and support players who behave like Destiny? I hardly think so. Also people who say Destiny wasn't hit by "witch hunt" and that "witch hunt" caused trouble to everyone except to him. Well, I am not buying that. He doesn't have team, and it will be hard for him to find another serious team, he doesn't have direct sponsors supports (no matter how tiny it was compared to what he was getting by streaming), he can't go to Korea and doesn't have paid trips to tournaments, his stream got de-listed from biggest SC2 community website. I went to his stream couple of times in last few days and I saw less then 1500 viewers every time. But most important part of it, I read on Reddit quote of him saying (probably on Twitter) that he WILL clean his act. That is what everyone who was part of "witch hunt" wanted, and if he did that at beginning he would still be part of Quantic and he would still be featured at TeamLiquid. It all comes to that and that wouldn't be accomplished without going to sponsors, EVER. | ||
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ScienceRob
United States382 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On May 08 2012 01:15 Lightspeaker wrote: This, so so much. Honestly I'm absolutely blown away by the fact that people are STILL SAYING "oh you shouldn't tell the sponsors, it hurts e-sports". Which do you think is more likely to put sponsors off: being informed by the community that one of their representatives is acting inappropriately? Or suddenly and unexpectedly finding out that they're sponsoring people whose idea of a laugh is spouting racist language because the community tolerates that kind of thing and just keeps quiet? Which is more likely to make them simply drop the player/team in question and which is more likely to make them think "my god, we don't want to be associated with anyone in this kind of community, it'll harm our company image" and quit out of sponsorship entirely? You guys didn't give Quantic one fucking day to react before you started contacting sponsors. Don't come here saying that the team would have done nothing if it wasn't for you crusaders of racial justice riding your high horses to the sponsors. You're basing YOUR argument off of a false premise, which is that Quantic did nothing and so people were forced to go to sponsors, which is absolute utter bullshit and you know it. | ||
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