EPTTLPD winrates April 2012 - Page 3
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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Kovaz
Canada233 Posts
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cmcaneff5502
United States116 Posts
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:51 cmcaneff5502 wrote: Personally, what I think it’s due from is Protoss has finally figured out how to make it to the late game. Over the last 2 years all of Terran’s strategies have centered around early timing attacks, because that’s where Terran is the strongest. This caused a slew of games ending early and never making it past the midgame. Now, Protoss has learned how to defend almost all of Terran’s early game strategies from the 3rax stim to the 1/1/1. So now we are finally seeing the late game of TvP develop and finding that Protoss’s tech is pretty damn strong, but I think it’s too early to make a call as to whether its due to balance or another game shift is needed (allowing Terran to come up with something new).Doesn't it seem odd that all of a sudden there are a bunch of "really good protoss players?" I'd say the rate shifts aren't because a miraculous rise of toss players but pretty obviously because of game balancing | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 04 2012 05:41 p1cKLes wrote: Personally, what I think it’s due from is Protoss has finally figured out how to make it to the late game. Over the last 2 years all of Terran’s strategies have centered around early timing attacks, because that’s where Terran is the strongest. This caused a slew of games ending early and never making it past the midgame. Now, Protoss has learned how to defend almost all of Terran’s early game strategies from the 3rax stim to the 1/1/1. So now we are finally seeing the late game of TvP develop and finding that Protoss’s tech is pretty damn strong, but I think it’s too early to make a call as to whether its due to balance or another game shift is needed (allowing Terran to come up with something new). For the last 2 years that was protoss to just 2 base all ins was what they relied on for so long. It's weird to play zvp and most tosses taking a third now of days xD | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
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klops
United States674 Posts
On May 04 2012 04:29 Aunvilgod wrote: We are currently in a big shift of the metagame. I would wait to see how everything turns out. And how good Mech actually is in TvP. until hots i can't see it being an effective answer. vs masters, i've tried... and tried... and tried. :\ i just want hots! | ||
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Squirrel
United States1102 Posts
On May 04 2012 05:45 Sajaki wrote: YAY! Terran winrates are absolute garbage. Now maybe blizzard will actually pay attention to our race when it comes to any game past 13-14 minutes! :D Are we looking at the same graph? | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
let me translate: "Terran winrates are absolute garbage" = Terran winrates are below 50% for the first time evar | ||
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Moka
Canada942 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
As always I will point out that just because the Korean graph has little games doesn´t mean it doesn´t count. I still think maps are having much more impact now than people are giving them credit for.Meh, this would be interesting to discuss but I know this thread will go to hell soon | ||
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NHL Fever
Canada104 Posts
1) Playing all 3, I find terran is the hardest to use. Many people will not agree, but basically when you are not playing perfectly, its easier to recover with p and z if your macro slipped for a bit. You need CONSTANT attention to production to have an army for terran, but you can insta-make one for z often when needed, and to a lesser extent for p. My win rate is about 70% as z, 30% as t and 50% as p. I just find there is far less you need to do to win with z, whereas I am constantly stressing and working at my limit to macro t and do damage at the same time. Working with z requires half the hotkeys compared to t. So when you get to the higher leagues and there are more demands on macro and multitasking, its just easier to cover everything you need with z compared to t. Extrapolate this to be similar to korean vs international. 2) Early timings/rushes: The easy-to-do/effective ratio is higher for p and z than t. Classic example is how easy but good a baneling bust is, compared to something like a bunker rush which is unlikely to work and takes effort to pull off against any effort to defend it. Likewise A four gate or 6/7 gate vs t is straightfoward to do and likely to go unscouted, vs a react+tech 2rax or something similar which requires a single sentry to stop. 3) Patch changes. Ghosts had massive nerf, making them somewhat cost inefficient, espcially against p where its hard to know if they have detection. 4) Meta changes: Infestors and templar are amazing. But it a took a long time for people to use them. Not that they are using all the units in their toolbox, things have changed. Turns out just cause banelings don't roll twice as fast doesn't mean you auto-lose. 5) Koreans strongly developed terran first, and terran won all the time. Now they are developing the other races namely p, and discovering what it can actually do. And the result is that all else equal, p overall stomps t when both played at high level, and it is just harder to win with tvz or tvp when two good players are using it. 6) Results from GSL yesterday: PvT 3 - 0 and PvT 3 - 0. 3P in top 4. P late game army is exceptionally hard to deal with from the point of view of T. Any of us who play t or who play r like me, experiences this all the time. 7) Lastly, these stats don't tell the whole story, because they don't tell you about the breakdowns by level. But if you check sc2 stats for leagues, you will find that there are substantially more p and z players in the diamond/masters level compared to t. This is especially the case in for NA server, where there are 30 - 40% more z players than t and perhaps 15% more p than t. There are two ways to look at this, obviously for z and p players they will want to say its because p and z players are better. But I think the more obvious explanation is probably the right one.....that its simply easier to level up with those races vs t. If you took out bronze through gold from the international stats, I think you would find similar ratios to the korean numbers. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
For the past 3 months, starting in February and all the way trough March and now April the MU in Korea has favored Protoss by a large margin. People argue the sample size is small, but given the fact that it has repeated for 3 months straight I say it is a troublesome sign. Terran win rates in Korea also worry me, but it unfortunately fluctuates greatly from month to month and doesn't produce a clear trend the same way ZvP has. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On May 04 2012 05:59 ACrow wrote: let me translate: "Terran winrates are absolute garbage" = Terran winrates are below 50% for the first time evar Terran winrates are garbage = terran dropping from 62-46 and 58-44. That is a BIG change. Of course the Korean rates matter the most because metagame changes usually happen first in korea, and blizzard is balancing the games for the top level of play i.e. korean server. | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
Everyone: Yeah, let's do that when D3 comes out. Ganzi: We name our guild: fuckingprotossimba trollololo User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:12 dacimvrl wrote: I was watching Ganzi's stream last night and he said: Let's all play Diablo 3 together, and have our own guild. Everyone: Yeah, let's do that when D3 comes out. Ganzi: We name our guild: fuckingprotossimba trollololo Thank you for your useful information, I'm sure this will contribute a lot to the graphs we see here in this thread! | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:15 Gladiator333 wrote: Thank you for your useful information, I'm sure this will contribute a lot to the graphs we see here in this thread! it provides some insight from what a code S korean terran player's opinion is. And yours? I am sure yours contributed much more!! Oh wait. | ||
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Squirrel
United States1102 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:11 Sajaki wrote: Terran winrates are garbage = terran dropping from 62-46 and 58-44. That is a BIG change. Of course the Korean rates matter the most because metagame changes usually happen first in korea, and blizzard is balancing the games for the top level of play i.e. korean server. I would assume the korean section of the graph would actually matter the least. Mainly due to having a very, very small sample size. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:26 Seam wrote: I would assume the korean section of the graph would actually matter the least. Mainly due to having a very, very small sample size. I disagree. You have to realize for the internation graph that it counts games such as stephano vs no named joe. Korean graph is almost purely GSL with code A/S players. International counts tournaments even if the top foreigners don't play in the smaller tournaments. So hard to take the international seriously at all since it goes from super good player thorzain vs no named xxx player who is mid masters. | ||
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