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Poll: Have you been participating on the test map?Yes (19) 58% No (14) 42% 33 total votes Your vote: Have you been participating on the test map? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
A blue poster just posted reminding people of the test map, just wondering how many people have actually played on it
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On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs 
if only that unit was warped in 4-6 at a time after a group of lots and sentries already walked to the base
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I know this is only the test map, but I'm really loose all hope for Blizzard. They seem so out of touch with the game... What exactly was their issue with reactor hellions? I just don't...
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On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses.
So your using FF with zealots only... I'd think you'd have a few stalkers as well.. But really don't you think the zealots would already counter the lings if they FF where trampled by the queen..
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On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs
if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals
Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though
i havent checked it out yet, but is there any method to making sure you play people your level or is it jsut que up and cross your fingers?
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On May 05 2012 09:16 Zarahtra wrote:
I know this is only the test map, but I'm really loose all hope for Blizzard. They seem so out of touch with the game... What exactly was their issue with reactor hellions? I just don't...
that zerg could lose outright to early aggression because of lack of creep spread and early scouting.
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On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though
Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless)
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On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless)
dont VRs get a hidden bonus to massive? i remember hearing it but cant say if it was true
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On May 05 2012 09:17 Falcor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:16 Zarahtra wrote:
I know this is only the test map, but I'm really loose all hope for Blizzard. They seem so out of touch with the game... What exactly was their issue with reactor hellions? I just don't... that zerg could lose outright to early aggression because of lack of creep spread and early scouting.
They are fixing the scouting. The only real "early aggression" that can end games in such a way is hellion rauder allin, which I'd like to point out has been out for ages without any changes and never seemed to be much of an issue. Other aggressions can be stopped aslong as the zerg isn't being overly greedy
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On May 05 2012 09:19 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:17 Falcor wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Zarahtra wrote:
I know this is only the test map, but I'm really loose all hope for Blizzard. They seem so out of touch with the game... What exactly was their issue with reactor hellions? I just don't... that zerg could lose outright to early aggression because of lack of creep spread and early scouting. They are fixing the scouting. The only real "early aggression" that can end games in such a way is hellion rauder allin, which I'd like to point out has been out for ages without any changes and never seemed to be much of an issue. Other aggressions can be stopped aslong as the zerg isn't being overly greedy
2 port banshee requires you to know its coming and be ready
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On May 05 2012 09:14 Falcor wrote:
I love how not even a day and they remove the old queen buff because people were crying before they even played that it was op. And now the same thing is going to happen to 5 range queens...
You are so right on target sir.
Especially protosses whining their butt off even though month or two ago were at a point of committing suicide, forcing blizzard to buff them making immortals ******* strong with the new range and ever earlier killing infestor counter to deathball with its neural range.
And it's funny how people hate on Idra on this thread, challenging his opinion even though his opinions that he already mentioned a year and a half ago are finally considered by Blizzard as true and are being "fixed" now. I don't see many pros whine against zerg but rather a bunch of NA protoss who can't even use their ff properly compared to KR server when even during placements against silver league, their tosses were more challenging than mid diamond protosses on NA I met on custom/ladder games.
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On May 05 2012 08:59 Jimbo77 wrote:
Someone, give blizz the link to Day[9] cast called "Mass Queen". Where it's showed clearly how OP this unit can be en mass.
Now they want to increase its attack even more.
In my opinion if there is a man who understands in SC2 balance the least - it's D. Kim.
I really hope you were just trolling, because mass queen is awful and is used for shits and giggles or to demonstrate how good mechanics beat bad mechanics (destiny style).
Besides that, using queens as part of an army comp is incredibly hard because they're so slow off creep, and if they're used that way no-one and I mean no-one is using them for their ground attack. They're there because they can take potshots at air units from long distance, and even that pales in comparison to their use as "healers" to transfuse ultras or broodlords. The ground attack only affects early game.
I don't know how well David Kim and Dustin Browder understand the balance, but they're certainly not the worst and judging by your post they know the game a million times better than you.
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On May 05 2012 09:21 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:19 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:17 Falcor wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Zarahtra wrote:
I know this is only the test map, but I'm really loose all hope for Blizzard. They seem so out of touch with the game... What exactly was their issue with reactor hellions? I just don't... that zerg could lose outright to early aggression because of lack of creep spread and early scouting. They are fixing the scouting. The only real "early aggression" that can end games in such a way is hellion rauder allin, which I'd like to point out has been out for ages without any changes and never seemed to be much of an issue. Other aggressions can be stopped aslong as the zerg isn't being overly greedy 2 port banshee requires you to know its coming and be ready
Another build that has been out for ages and has never seemed much of an issue... Another build that scouting should take care of(and quite frankly, making hellions less useful changes nothing really)
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On May 05 2012 09:22 Lokerek wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:14 Falcor wrote:
I love how not even a day and they remove the old queen buff because people were crying before they even played that it was op. And now the same thing is going to happen to 5 range queens... You are so right on target sir. Especially protosses whining their butt off even though month or two ago were at a point of committing suicide, forcing blizzard to buff them making immortals ******* strong with the new range and ever earlier killing infestor counter to deathball with its neural range. And it's funny how people hate on Idra on this thread, challenging his opinion even though his opinions that he already mentioned a year and a half ago are finally considered by Blizzard as true and are being "fixed" now. I don't see many pros whine against zerg but rather a bunch of NA protoss who can't even use their ff properly compared to KR server when even during placements against silver league, their tosses were more challenging than mid diamond protosses on NA I met on custom/ladder games.
not to mention he was wining about how amazing ghosts were long before MVP ever used mass ghosts to completely crush July
Another build that has been out for ages and has never seemed much of an issue... Another build that scouting should take care of(and quite frankly, making hellions less useful changes nothing really)
its not used as much but if you go 2 port and deny the overlord from seeing it you win because they have too many banshees for you to get enough queens and spores up to deal with
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On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless)
Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily?
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On May 05 2012 09:24 D_bo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless) Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily?
Just go for the drones instead..
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On May 05 2012 09:24 D_bo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless) Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily?
Well I'm a terran, so my opinion on exactly this is quite uneffected by bias. Yes, yes you should. Seeing the sacrifice protoss makes to make the SG and any unit from it, it has to have some potential to reward it. I was however a bit hasty, someone pointed out correctly that VRs would do +20% dmg against queens if they were massive, so that *might* make it enough to balance the graviton beam not being usable(though admittedly I doubt it, seeing as the queen VR still can't touch spores, the queen can always just dmg it a bit and run back to the safety of the spore).
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On May 05 2012 09:28 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:24 D_bo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless) Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily? Well I'm a terran, so my opinion on exactly this is quite uneffected by bias. Yes, yes you should. Seeing the sacrifice protoss makes to make the SG and any unit from it, it has to have some potential to reward it. I was however a bit hasty, someone pointed out correctly that VRs would do +20% dmg against queens if they were massive, so that *might* make it enough to balance the graviton beam not being usable(though admittedly I doubt it, seeing as the queen VR still can't touch spores, the queen can always just dmg it a bit and run back to the safety of the spore).
So where is my Zerg unit that drains all energy from your orbital?
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On May 05 2012 09:30 D_bo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:28 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:24 D_bo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless) Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily? Well I'm a terran, so my opinion on exactly this is quite uneffected by bias. Yes, yes you should. Seeing the sacrifice protoss makes to make the SG and any unit from it, it has to have some potential to reward it. I was however a bit hasty, someone pointed out correctly that VRs would do +20% dmg against queens if they were massive, so that *might* make it enough to balance the graviton beam not being usable(though admittedly I doubt it, seeing as the queen VR still can't touch spores, the queen can always just dmg it a bit and run back to the safety of the spore). So where is my Zerg unit that drains all energy from your orbital?
Better yet.. where is my Zerg unit the turns your Orbital back into a CC?
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On May 05 2012 09:31 D_bo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:30 D_bo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:28 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:24 D_bo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:17 Zarahtra wrote:On May 05 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:12 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 09:11 Forikorder wrote:On May 05 2012 09:09 ThePrinceAli wrote:On May 05 2012 08:57 D_bo wrote:
Just snipe the queen... As a Protoss imagine only being able to use 1/2 of warp-ins to defend.. "Snipe" the queen? The thing has 175 hp with 1 armor, is quite fast on creep, and now has 5 range in this map...You can't "snipe" it with a slow small force of zealot/sentry as it can run around on creep, unless the zerg literally has no other defenses. if onyl toss had some fast unit off T1 with 6 range its a shame they dont but massive queen isnt the solution, FFing the ramp barely happens thats more of a map makers problem then Blizzs problem there are plenty of maps you cant FF the ramp easily and im pretty sure VRs get bonus to massive so it would make holding air alot harder If only that unit didn't suck versus speedlings that can easily surround if there's no FFs if only Toss didnt have a unit that absolutely shredded them that only cost 100 minerals Queens being massive would only affect late game fights where noone FFs anyway since most toss get archons or early game defenses where you cant afford to have lots of queens and sentry drop harass it owuldnt outright break PvZ it wouldnt help it either though Massive units can't be lifted by phoenix either, so it'd obviously effect SG play a lot(read: make it useless) Exactly.. Should you be able to nueter a race's macro mechanic so easily? Well I'm a terran, so my opinion on exactly this is quite uneffected by bias. Yes, yes you should. Seeing the sacrifice protoss makes to make the SG and any unit from it, it has to have some potential to reward it. I was however a bit hasty, someone pointed out correctly that VRs would do +20% dmg against queens if they were massive, so that *might* make it enough to balance the graviton beam not being usable(though admittedly I doubt it, seeing as the queen VR still can't touch spores, the queen can always just dmg it a bit and run back to the safety of the spore). So where is my Zerg unit that drains all energy from your orbital? Better yet.. where is my Zerg unit the turns your Orbital back into a CC?
They're called burrow banelings, or infestors!
Next question?!
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EPT
