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Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
2110 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 106 Next
meadbert
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States681 Posts
May 03 2012 00:55 GMT
#121
In general I am totally against the Queen buff. Getting an extra inject per queen is huge.

In reality at diamond and lower no one is efficient enough with injects to take advantage, but at the pro level this could be a huge buff! It does make Zerg more skill intensive and possibly the most skill intensive race.
torm3ntin
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil2534 Posts
May 03 2012 00:57 GMT
#122
i like how bliz implements this with a custom map. better than connecting in a beta test server.
Grubby and Ret fan, but a TERRAN player :D
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
May 03 2012 00:57 GMT
#123
can you imagine stargate builds vs queens that spawn with transfuse + will have more transfuses available?
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
-KarakStarcraft-
Profile Joined September 2010
United States258 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 00:58:48
May 03 2012 00:58 GMT
#124
On May 03 2012 09:51 Toppp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:24 Toppp wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:14 Toppp wrote:
not to mention that a queen popping out with a transfuse and TWO injects is fucking ridiculous.. if it passes zerg will be unstoppable.

Erm, 50 energy is 1 transfuse OR two injects. You also cant inject the same thing twice which nullifies its ability to inject twice.


I know.. i meant a queen will pop out with both a transfuse and/or 2 injects..

I know the queen change will never be passed.. but the fact that they even consider adding 50 energy queens makes me worry...

No, it means a queen will pop out with a transfuse OR 2 injects. and/or implies they can do both, which costs 100 energy.


You get my point, you just refuse to accept the fact that 50 starting energy is INSANE. You don't realize the significance of this change because you probably play at a low level.


I don't play at a low level. Well, unless you consider masters NA a low level, which some do I suppose.

50 starting energy is a good change that will have a substantial effect, but it's not INSANE AND OMFG WILL BREAK THE GAME. It will just stop Z from having to cower in fear from every all-in possible and not spread any creep in early game ZvT. Will make taking 3rds easier. Ts have so many low-risk pressure builds that can kill a Z (and don't really put the T behind if they fail) + hellions are so effective at denying creep that this will significantly help that. Ts can still scan and kill the early creep tumors... it's just Zs won't have to cripple their early injects by spreading it.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 03 2012 01:01 GMT
#125
On May 03 2012 09:47 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:41 FinalForm wrote:
These changes increase the the defensive capabilities of zerg and protoss, making it even harder for terran to make their midgame deathblow that they are dependent on


Terrans aren't reliant on a midgame deathblow, watch terrans like MKP or Thorzain play out to the late game with constant aggression, just doing trades and never killing their opponent and getting way and way ahead doing it.

Good thing we're all MKP and Thorzain. The observer change is just going to reinforce the trend to make more to scout for drops and army position, not to mention reduce the margin for error in banshee builds.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
May 03 2012 01:01 GMT
#126
I wonder what are the effects of the 50 energy queen on ZvZ. Spreading creep and allowing for a zerg wall sounds pretty cool tbh.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
May 03 2012 01:02 GMT
#127
Queen starting energy increased to 50, up from 25.

LOL^^
creep on my 3rd at minute 8 - but no lair? its possible now?
i cant believe they even think about a change like this oO
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
May 03 2012 01:02 GMT
#128
On May 03 2012 09:57 xrapture wrote:
can you imagine stargate builds vs queens that spawn with transfuse + will have more transfuses available?


every "air" opening seems to be bad in this "patch". Stargate wont do anything anymore. Banshees wont be doing anything in TvZ or TvP. Maybe its what they want to do, but I really dislike it.
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 01:12:28
May 03 2012 01:03 GMT
#129
I'm worried about a zerg being able to inject 2 bases from the first queen because they can spend that extra 150 minerals on units and rush, or get map control very early. T or P need to damage zerg before the mid game sets in or at least threaten zerg, to force units. If zerg is able to make just 2 more sets of lings with no loss to macro (because they can delay the 2nd queen) we could be seeing a big change here. Not to mention the ability to just make more drones earlier without needing that 2nd queen right away. This change is so huge it's scary.

The overlord change isn't such a big deal, but I still feel like protoss has the worst scouting. Protoss is blind as soon as 1 ling or rine is out until the point when protoss has obs, hallucination, or air units. However, the first zealot out doesn't stop scouting (it can't catch a worker). A protoss that fast expands is blind for a long time. At least zerg has the overlord to suicide to get information in this period of time......

Obs change is nice, but I'd actually like it if they shortened hallucination instead. So you can scout with it early enough to not be forced into robo. Besides we still don't see hallucination used that much. Another side affect of changing the obs build time is now those immortals or colossus can be out 10 seconds sooner in builds that have the obs 1st.

I find it really odd they would buff zerg this much before the release of HOTS.
:)
bakedace
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States672 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 01:08:33
May 03 2012 01:04 GMT
#130
Instead of giving the queen extra energy..

Maybe the overlord could drop creep without lair upgrade.

- This would allow faster creep spread, while not effecting larva count. Player will have to move overlords in place properly (leap frogging), and will leave some overlords vulnerable. Pros and cons.
- This may also give zergs more options for early game cheese with spines and proxy buildings.

We need more ideas instead of just saying we hate it!
scudst0rm
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1149 Posts
May 03 2012 01:04 GMT
#131
oh man this queen energy thing is gunna be so broken. 10 hatch/10 pool, double queen rush. by the time they get to the enemy base they'll have full energy = infinite transfuses! can't lose.
You're like a one ranger army comin' at me...
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 03 2012 01:05 GMT
#132
On May 03 2012 09:58 Karak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:51 Toppp wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:24 Toppp wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:14 Toppp wrote:
not to mention that a queen popping out with a transfuse and TWO injects is fucking ridiculous.. if it passes zerg will be unstoppable.

Erm, 50 energy is 1 transfuse OR two injects. You also cant inject the same thing twice which nullifies its ability to inject twice.


I know.. i meant a queen will pop out with both a transfuse and/or 2 injects..

I know the queen change will never be passed.. but the fact that they even consider adding 50 energy queens makes me worry...

No, it means a queen will pop out with a transfuse OR 2 injects. and/or implies they can do both, which costs 100 energy.


You get my point, you just refuse to accept the fact that 50 starting energy is INSANE. You don't realize the significance of this change because you probably play at a low level.


I don't play at a low level. Well, unless you consider masters NA a low level, which some do I suppose.

50 starting energy is a good change that will have a substantial effect, but it's not INSANE AND OMFG WILL BREAK THE GAME. It will just stop Z from having to cower in fear from every all-in possible and not spread any creep in early game ZvT. Will make taking 3rds easier. Ts have so many low-risk pressure builds that can kill a Z (and don't really put the T behind if they fail) + hellions are so effective at denying creep that this will significantly help that. Ts can still scan and kill the early creep tumors... it's just Zs won't have to cripple their early injects by spreading it.

But T still has to cripple their economy to kill creep with a scan. The only thing low pressure that can outright win a game for T is if the Z is caught completely flatfooted, which is how the game works. T is also succeptable to low pressure moves from Z, like econ baneling busts, but they don't feel the need to do that since stacking econ will likely win a game outright.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 01:07:42
May 03 2012 01:05 GMT
#133
Why not make it so only the first queen build starts with 50 energy? All queens with 50 would be too strong, just too many tumors and utility/transfuses/injects all game long.

Besides this I think the changes are great, particularly the overlord one.

Poll: Only the 1st queen built starts with 50 energy?

No, all queens with 50 energy. (39)
 
51%

No, all queens with 25 energy. (26)
 
34%

Yes (12)
 
16%

77 total votes

Your vote: Only the 1st queen built starts with 50 energy?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No, all queens with 50 energy.
(Vote): No, all queens with 25 energy.



ModeratorBlame yourself or God
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
May 03 2012 01:05 GMT
#134
yes, let's buff protoss and zerg on a terran favored map, it's not like you've already admitted PvT on maps like cloud kingdom are already 70% protoss favored.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
May 03 2012 01:06 GMT
#135
Queen idea is fucking terrible. Aside from the fact that Hellion openings barely delay Creep Spread against smart players, this is just going to make Void Rays/ Phoenix openings utterly useless. Guess what that means? Mass Muta is going to become absurdly good against, because Protoss won't be able to viably open Stargate.

Overlord buff is whatever. I don't think Zergs need it but it's not going to break the game. Protoss should get a DPS buff to air to compensate for it since Stalkers are so bad at killing Overlords, and since this change is aimed at ZvT, not ZvP, where Zerg has excellent ability to scout.

Observer change is nice but rather useless IMO.

What we really need are substantial solutions to BL/Infestor outside of gimmicky nonsense like MS/Archon.
scudst0rm
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1149 Posts
May 03 2012 01:06 GMT
#136
On May 03 2012 10:04 bakedace wrote:
Instead of giving the queen extra energy..

Maybe the overlord could drop creep without lair upgrade.

- This would allow faster creep spread, while not effecting larva count. It also has its cons.
- This may also give zergs more options for early game cheese with spines and proxy buildings.

We need more ideas instead of just saying we hate it!


This would also let you block FEs and even prevent T/P from walling in on close air positions.
You're like a one ranger army comin' at me...
Big G
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy835 Posts
May 03 2012 01:06 GMT
#137
Queens starting with 50 energy would be sooo imbalanced at least in ZvP. Void rays to punish a greedy third hatch? No way... creep is already there and 2 queens ready to transfuse are coming.

S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
May 03 2012 01:07 GMT
#138
On May 03 2012 10:04 bakedace wrote:
Instead of giving the queen extra energy..

Maybe the overlord could drop creep without lair upgrade.

- This would allow faster creep spread, while not effecting larva count. It also has its cons.
- This may also give zergs more options for early game cheese with spines and proxy buildings.

We need more ideas instead of just saying we hate it!

While that would make funday mondays more fun, I don't think it's necessary.

It's not the idea per se that's bad, it's the numbers. Considering how common multiple queen openings are a simple +5/10 initial energy increase would help quite a bit. Don't freaking double the initial number on first go.
bakedace
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States672 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 01:12:57
May 03 2012 01:12 GMT
#139
On May 03 2012 10:06 scudst0rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 10:04 bakedace wrote:
Instead of giving the queen extra energy..

Maybe the overlord could drop creep without lair upgrade.

- This would allow faster creep spread, while not effecting larva count. It also has its cons.
- This may also give zergs more options for early game cheese with spines and proxy buildings.

We need more ideas instead of just saying we hate it!


This would also let you block FEs and even prevent T/P from walling in on close air positions.


Terran and Protoss can block with pylon and engibay..

A fast thrid could be delayed in the current meta, but people would just make 1 marine or 1 stalker.
-Debaser-
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States329 Posts
May 03 2012 01:12 GMT
#140
if this queen change goes through imagine mass queen broodlord/ultra transfuses with super creep spread
TL+ Member
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