EPTCall to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 20
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
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shockaslim
United States1104 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:13 Payson wrote: So it's okay for Terran to win 3 of the last 4 GSL titles while only one Protoss (Genius) even made it to that point and lost to DRG 4-2? Our last title win in GSL came from MC over a year ago in GSL March '11. We're having one really solid season because Protoss players are changing how they play the matchup and it's finally working in their favor. What happened this season with 5 Protoss in the ro8 won't happen again this year, I guarantee that. I honestly don't see how this is relevant to any type of CURRENT balance. | ||
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
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Mycl
Australia1370 Posts
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robopork
United States511 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:26 shmee wrote: They're zergs, obviously. The 67% against are cheesy toss and terran players who are mad they aren't getting a cookie, too. P are getting a cookie. You leave us out of this ;P | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:28 Zelniq wrote: believe me, they have considered reducing the build time as they realize that it would fix a lot of issues for zerg, except for one silly, super-specific reason against it. they claim zvz fast pool, spine crawler rushes would be broken. i am actually a little skeptical now, as i mean cannons (which have the same life as a spine), build 10 seconds faster than spine crawlers and yet 3 drones attacking it soon after it starts building can kill it before it's halfway done. so yeah actually i dont agree that a 40 second spine crawler down from 50 seconds would screw up zvz at all actually. someone should talk to him about it. Only problem is that because cannons can't be built on creep they can't actually get in range of the initial hatchery (some maps excluded and even on those maps it's low-ground only). That pushes the timing back and changes how much it costs to pull those 3 drones, as it's a lot more expensive early game than it is even a bit later on. This always happens with changes though, regardless of how subtle they are on the over-all game people will focus in on one and attempt to "bargain" with whoever wants to listen, and then complain when blizzard doesn't implement it as it was bargained. | ||
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shmee
United States28 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:35 Dingobloo wrote: Only problem is that because cannons can't be built on creep they can't actually get in range of the initial hatchery (some maps excluded and even on those maps it's low-ground only). That pushes the timing back and changes how much it costs to pull those 3 drones, as it's a lot more expensive early game than it is even a bit later on. Let me get this straight... you think spine crawler rushes would be imba, yet you're defending cannon rushes? | ||
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shmee
United States28 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:34 robopork wrote: P are getting a cookie. You leave us out of this ;P non-cheesy protoss players are getting a cookie  I actually really like the observer change as a zerg player | ||
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Esorydal
Poland42 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:19 hordala wrote: Good changes overall zerg will not die to early rax rushes(not fair if you think about it zerg cant just 6pool on some maps and win while terran can 11/11 on entombed and have no real way to lose) cause of early transfuse or creep against helion, and whats different with this then repairing bunkers and a early transfuse even artosis in the gsl mentioned how he has never seen a terran get behind when he bunker rushes against zerg because zerg have no real way to stop it especially on entombed valley this will give them an early transfuse and also let zerg have a way to actually defend long 3rd base maps against stargate play like on entombed and tal daerim im not disagreeing with everyone that TVP is wack Protoss right now is ridiculously strong whats up with the random observer buff when they are doing so good right now, also if you watched gsl yesterday you wouldve seen the chart where zerg are the least represented consistantly for the whole year and went up or down by small margin never really having a strong representation not because the race it self is bad depending on the opener the oponent does, it cripples them before they can even really do anything even if the zerg prepares perfectly (obviously not on all maps but alot of them especially entombed). I am a masters terran on korea and I comletelty agree with this statement zerg are WEAK early on against terran I dont know why people are complaing about zerg buffs THEY NEED THEM did you guys not see what are happening to zerg right are you guys blind LOOK AT THE GSL REPRESENTATION and on top of that look at lose rates for zergs on grandmaster, entombed WE WIN INSTANTLY with 11 11 racks why does this even happen zerg needs way better scouting.Are you guys seriously complaing about overloards when there slow as shit,cost supply and they cant wall off,our repair is like there transfuse they need this buff. Protoss are also to powerful right now I am guranteeing that there is gonna be a pvp and a protoss gsl winner they just have to many all ins and defenders advatnge everywhere and progessevly get strogner while the game goes on I dont know why you would buff the observer.Every gsl you can see that protoss recently STOMP on everyone even with using risky builds zerg are forced to engage protoss armies that dont require much micro at all to defend and die by force fields and terran are progessively going the route of all ins is this what you guys at blizzard want? | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
"without giving them something that allows them to see everything most of the time" Is this a troll or is this serious? This is exactly what zerg has nows with their overlords?? If you ever watched tournament games and streamed games from zerg vs race x you would notice that zerg has huge map vision throughout the middle and endgame. Just compare it with the vision of their opponents and the difference is striking. Annyway: I dont realy mind the updates. A 25% increase in ovl speed seems meaningless to me annyway, 1.25 times verry slow is still verry slow, but i guess the pros can make good use of it. Zerg is indeed verry vulnarable early game. Its just this remark i find realy weird Disagreed with all 3 options in the end lol | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:28 Zelniq wrote: believe me, they have considered reducing the build time as they realize that it would fix a lot of issues for zerg, except for one silly, super-specific reason against it. they claim zvz fast pool, spine crawler rushes would be broken. i am actually a little skeptical now, as i mean cannons (which have the same life as a spine), build 10 seconds faster than spine crawlers and yet 3 drones attacking it soon after it starts building can kill it before it's halfway done. so yeah actually i dont agree that a 40 second spine crawler down from 50 seconds would screw up zvz at all actually. someone should talk to him about it. Cannons don't have Zealots defending them. No one Spine Crawler rushes. They 6/7 pool and build a Crawler for additional offence. | ||
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singul4rity
United States54 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:28 Zelniq wrote: believe me, they have considered reducing the build time as they realize that it would fix a lot of issues for zerg, except for one silly, super-specific reason against it. they claim zvz fast pool, spine crawler rushes would be broken. i am actually a little skeptical now, as i mean cannons (which have the same life as a spine), build 10 seconds faster than spine crawlers and yet 3 drones attacking it soon after it starts building can kill it before it's halfway done. so yeah actually i dont agree that a 40 second spine crawler down from 50 seconds would screw up zvz at all actually. someone should talk to him about it. In ZvZ you can throw down a spine on the opponents creep. No need to build a pylon first. I think that's what makes it so much more imba than a cannon rush... | ||
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
Nexus should get Shield Battery. Zerg already has transfuse/creep tumors and now has more energy, so yea. | ||
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sOvrn
United States678 Posts
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6657 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:43 Tump wrote: I think all races should have improvements against all-ins. Supply drop should be changed to like, fortify bunker or something. make it like the upgraded bunker but only on one? Nexus should get Shield Battery. Zerg already has transfuse/creep tumors and now has more energy, so yea. Because Bunkers need to be harder to break and more cost efficient.... | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
Maybe they finally learned... | ||
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
On May 03 2012 13:38 Rassy wrote: This is to help pro players scout a little easier in the early game, and to help zerg on larger maps. We feel that this is the right way to encourage the best zerg players to scout in the early game, without giving them something that allows them to see everything most of the time "without giving them something that allows them to see everything most of the time" Is this a troll or is this serious? This is exactly what zerg has nows with their overlords?? If you ever watched tournament games and streamed games from zerg vs race x you would notice that zerg has huge map vision throughout the middle and endgame. Just compare it with the vision of their opponents and the difference is striking. IDK if this is a troll or serious. It is clearly talking about the early game only. | ||
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ContrailNZ
New Zealand306 Posts
The only way Protoss has a chance is with an all in that isn't detected (as broodlords are too imbalanced late game). These changes would basically end air offensive due to extra transfuses being available. That would mean much less need for spores or extra queens vs air which means more drones or units and game over. The change would also make it easier for Zerg to mass zerglings earlier on due to less need for extra queens for macro hatches. Slightly faster scouting for Protoss wont really help vs Terran either in early / mid game and wont affect protoss late game. | ||
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