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On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore.
i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better.
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On May 02 2012 07:53 CoR wrote:
also alot of casters make the game entertaining and someone like cloud ... well he did some things in the past that was so "ANTIFANBASE" ... so from a "fanside" i am obvious way more on the caster site then on the site of a player that really dont care about his fans at all
Wait, what?
You like a lot of other guys were late to the dance. Cloud is very well known from BW and he is very well liked in certain circles.
Players not constantly putting themselves out there doesn't mean they don't care about their fans. It's a silly notion.
![[image loading]](http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif)
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Thank god we have people like Cloud in this community ! The bad casters and the difference in what casters and players earn have surely been annoying.
Therefore I have solely supported the casters that I feel do make an effort, play the game and are excitingly good at what they do.
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On May 02 2012 07:52 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:43 projectChaos wrote:
Don`t forget: Everyone can be a pro or at least a semi pro like cloud, if you put enough time into it. This does not apply for casters. You need some requirements like proper language, good personality, nice voice,beeing humorous.
Knowing the game by playing alot is a good thing to do as a caster, but there are other components, too. At the end casters do not cast for progamers. They do it for the average player. So knowledge above these avarage viewer should be enough knowgledge.
everyone can be a pro? where the fuck did you get this from? there are ppl devoting months of playing and no1 even knows them. most of them arent even able to get into GM which is far away from becoming a pro. wtf?^^
The point I wanted to make is: Beeing a progamer is a thing you can get easier by practice than beeing a caster. Improving your skill as a gamer is mainly a question of how many games you have done. This do not apply for casting.
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On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better.
Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is.
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On May 02 2012 08:12 projectChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:52 KalWarkov wrote:On May 02 2012 07:43 projectChaos wrote:
Don`t forget: Everyone can be a pro or at least a semi pro like cloud, if you put enough time into it. This does not apply for casters. You need some requirements like proper language, good personality, nice voice,beeing humorous.
Knowing the game by playing alot is a good thing to do as a caster, but there are other components, too. At the end casters do not cast for progamers. They do it for the average player. So knowledge above these avarage viewer should be enough knowgledge.
everyone can be a pro? where the fuck did you get this from? there are ppl devoting months of playing and no1 even knows them. most of them arent even able to get into GM which is far away from becoming a pro. wtf?^^ The point I wanted to make is: Beeing a progamer is a thing you can get easier by practice than beeing a caster. Improving your skill as a gamer is mainly a question of how many games you have done. This do not apply for casting.
This isn't particularly true. There are several casters who made it big almost entirely through casting over and over again and leveraging the connections they made over and over. Kind of like the whole turning a pen into a condo on ebay deal. CatsPajamas pops to mind immediately, and he's even mentioned this as his explicit goal on Destiny's stream a long time ago while he didn't realize the conversation was being streamed.
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On May 02 2012 08:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better. Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is.
To be fair during the first few mlgs the common strategies were a complete clusterfuck of all ins on terrible maps. But I think painuser was pretty alright nonetheless.
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Without Husky/HD there would be a lot less people into SC2 watching commentated matches. Without casters there would be no money for players either. Also this is capitalism, you make money if you can and fair doesn't always come into it. Also nerds who are good at games and want to play all day is probably more common than nerds who are great at talking, being entertaining, public speaking and being charming. Similar to engineering, the technical stuff is probably harder, but managing the engineers pays better. A rarer skill set in that specific population.
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Another problem about the most well known casters is that they do not criticize blizzard at all almost
they do not talk about problems about the game
lack of features
lack of support from blizzard etc
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cloud seems to be the revolutionist mouth (or finger if you want), he always tries to make changes where he believes its not good
hes totally right about this subject, how much casters evolved in the past months/years? almost nothing, they have their almost untouchable place and it seems only very few are passionate and deserve what they get
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On May 02 2012 08:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better. Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Day(9)
day9 did 10x more than PU ever did in BW, why are we comparing their previous skill levels again? They both obviously aren't of tip top skill level but certainly when i listen to day9 as opposed to PU, D9 has soo much more insight into the games.
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Cloud is just but hurt really. Its just the nature of the way things are in Starcraft. The level of competition in the caster role is not that huge, and with all the tournments going on leagues are taking what they can get. It will be this way until players stop playing and start casting, incontrol and grubby come to mind.
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On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore.
well, comparing pu to day9 seems so wrong, you realize both day9 and artosis have a really strong name from bw and there they could actually compete as players, in the most competitive way, they were there
they didnt even try too much to be good in sc2, but their knowledge is just awesome and they keep improving, they are passionate and cast cause they like, they didnt start to cast 2 months ago to earn some money
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Russian Federation117 Posts
I think people are missing the point here. IMO Cloud was speaking about LACK OF GAME KNOWLEDGE as the biggest problem with most casters and not about who earns more money and gets more recognition. I think everybody is fine with casters getting more money than average player (supply/demand rule applies here) but those casters better do their job well which is currently not the case.
I liked the point Cloud was making about casters never getting a "Defeat screen" on a tournament - once you get to the point of being known and recognized it seems like it's a win/win scenario and you can stop improving and learning about the game, but the money and fame will keep coming in. There're so many mediocre casters right now, it's mindblowing and still they're getting invited to cast tournaments and different kinds of events.
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On May 02 2012 08:28 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better. Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Day(9)day9 did 10x more than PU ever did in BW, why are we comparing their previous skill levels again? They both obviously aren't of tip top skill level but certainly when i listen to day9 as opposed to PU, D9 has soo much more insight into the games.
An entirely different game...
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And I seriously doubt cloud works harder than Day9. Lets look at their schedules, and responsibilities .
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On May 02 2012 08:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:28 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better. Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Day(9)day9 did 10x more than PU ever did in BW, why are we comparing their previous skill levels again? They both obviously aren't of tip top skill level but certainly when i listen to day9 as opposed to PU, D9 has soo much more insight into the games. An entirely different game...
you missed my point where i said their PREVIOUS skill levels PU doesn't even compete anymore so its irrelevant.
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On May 02 2012 08:35 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 08:28 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better. Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Day(9)day9 did 10x more than PU ever did in BW, why are we comparing their previous skill levels again? They both obviously aren't of tip top skill level but certainly when i listen to day9 as opposed to PU, D9 has soo much more insight into the games. An entirely different game... you missed my point where i said their PREVIOUS skill levels PU doesn't even compete anymore so its irrelevant.
It's not at all irrelevant.
Painuser is better at the game both players are paid to cast. Much better in fact. Meaning his knowledge of the game is better.
Which was the original discussion.
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On May 02 2012 08:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:35 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 08:28 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:14 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 08:08 sc14s wrote:On May 02 2012 08:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 NexCa wrote:
uhhh... okay, so i don't know if ClouD ever saw constant Daylies of Day9, but in my honest opinion, he failed there...
Day9 has so much (and i really mean, SO MUCH) more insight than the most casters like Painuser, Husky and HD. After Artosis probably the best caster IMO. I've learned so much about the game in general, like timings, builds, execuitions etc.
The other part is that Day9 has such a good understanding about analysing things, ofc some ppl don't like it, but for me it's just amazing how he looks at the game or certain situations and knows whats up. I could be wrong, in my opinion that's great.
Hard to criticize someone (or in this case a caster) when you are a Progamer and know every little thing about the game and live from that game because it's your freakn JOB. You realise that Painuser is a far better player than Day9 right? If only Day9 were as good at casting as he is at selling his cult of the personality. I'm glad there's started to be more backlash against him because in my opinion he's been poor for a good year now and it's very clear he rarely plays the game or makes an effort to really keep up anymore. i'm fairly certain they are of similar skill levels.. Just because PU shows up to a couple of events and drops out first round doesn't make him better. Painuser finished 3rd at an MLG. Even after Koreans came he continued to make good open bracket runs and knock out known pro players. There's no way Day9 is even close to as good as he is. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Day(9)day9 did 10x more than PU ever did in BW, why are we comparing their previous skill levels again? They both obviously aren't of tip top skill level but certainly when i listen to day9 as opposed to PU, D9 has soo much more insight into the games. An entirely different game... you missed my point where i said their PREVIOUS skill levels PU doesn't even compete anymore so its irrelevant. It's not at all irrelevant. Painuser is better at the game both players are paid to cast. Much better in fact. Meaning his knowledge of the game is better. Which was the original discussion.
You dont know who is better, all i know is how the cast and its pretty much night and day... pu sucks balls at casting, all the pros that i watch cast that are actually good at the game are pretty damn good at casting generally.. hes the only one that has this exception that i know of who is "pro" but sucks balls at insight into the game.
well thats not entirely true, gretorp sucks too but he actually has more than PU lol, its more about gretorps inability to get his points across than him not knowing what is going on.
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1878 Posts
On May 02 2012 08:12 projectChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:52 KalWarkov wrote:On May 02 2012 07:43 projectChaos wrote:
Don`t forget: Everyone can be a pro or at least a semi pro like cloud, if you put enough time into it. This does not apply for casters. You need some requirements like proper language, good personality, nice voice,beeing humorous.
Knowing the game by playing alot is a good thing to do as a caster, but there are other components, too. At the end casters do not cast for progamers. They do it for the average player. So knowledge above these avarage viewer should be enough knowgledge.
everyone can be a pro? where the fuck did you get this from? there are ppl devoting months of playing and no1 even knows them. most of them arent even able to get into GM which is far away from becoming a pro. wtf?^^ The point I wanted to make is: Beeing a progamer is a thing you can get easier by practice than beeing a caster. Improving your skill as a gamer is mainly a question of how many games you have done. This do not apply for casting.
Lol ok.
Tell that to people who've played tons of games since BW and still arent very good at SC2.
Also, casters / professions related to elocution have refined their craft over years of practice. I honestly wouldn't be surprised one bit if there are esports casters out there who constantly look into the mirror to practice casting.
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EPT
