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On May 02 2012 02:03 Otolia wrote:
Another one of ClouD "events", this guy are serious issues. He is bad at SC2, he never achieved anything of note and when he has an issue with something it has always something to do with money.
He isn't discussing anything he is just randomly pointing fingers at people.
no hes not ur just clueless about the game, cloud makes alot of good points but hes an honest person by nature so whenever he talks about something he comes off as being condescending, if u ever get to know him youd understand that hes actually a good person
im sure he thought about rephrasing alot of his statements just so he could be politically correct but in the end he probably didnt care because hes not fake
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and what is this discussion about? Oo i mean. yeah cloud isnt in the top of the world but he never said anything like this.
and "bad" players (lol) have to be paid too. but casters that dont even know shit of the game become to much money and fame this days. it´s just a difference when casters say they dont understand what happening in the game or they just say anything what isnt rifght.
artosis sometimes say in gsl that he dont understand situations and i like it more then painuser that just hypes anything and talks trash.
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On May 02 2012 04:26 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:18 TanTzoR wrote:On May 02 2012 04:13 Diamond wrote:On May 02 2012 04:11 masterbreti wrote:On May 02 2012 03:14 Diamond wrote:
What trash. Using the same basis there is no reason Cloud should be making money, he has a 50% winate in TLPD, has no notable major event wins, and has next to no marketability.
Why is he getting paid to play SC2 again?
Players need to not throw stones in glass houses. I think you need to read liquidpedia some more http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ClouDTaking out players like Sjow, Socke, Kas is no joke. Cloud is very very good, better than 90% of foreign Terran, in the top 10 in europe when he is in form, when not he would be top 20 Terrans in europe. I know very well who Cloud is. His 50% winrate in the international scene also tells me more then LP could. Beating some good players does not make you a good player. Winning tournaments and posting results does. Things Cloud has not done in SC2 (and no, EPS does not count to anyone outside EU). If he was a NA player he would be the best NA terran though. He's not even half as good as illusion.
Don't kid yourself.
How did this turn into a player bashing thread?
If you disagree, it should be easy enough to argue your point instead of arguing on a personal level.
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On May 02 2012 04:26 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:18 TanTzoR wrote:On May 02 2012 04:13 Diamond wrote:On May 02 2012 04:11 masterbreti wrote:On May 02 2012 03:14 Diamond wrote:
What trash. Using the same basis there is no reason Cloud should be making money, he has a 50% winate in TLPD, has no notable major event wins, and has next to no marketability.
Why is he getting paid to play SC2 again?
Players need to not throw stones in glass houses. I think you need to read liquidpedia some more http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ClouDTaking out players like Sjow, Socke, Kas is no joke. Cloud is very very good, better than 90% of foreign Terran, in the top 10 in europe when he is in form, when not he would be top 20 Terrans in europe. I know very well who Cloud is. His 50% winrate in the international scene also tells me more then LP could. Beating some good players does not make you a good player. Winning tournaments and posting results does. Things Cloud has not done in SC2 (and no, EPS does not count to anyone outside EU). If he was a NA player he would be the best NA terran though. He's not even half as good as illusion.
Cloud is on the same level or better than Illusion. The kid is really talented and will be way better than Cloud in the future but atm winning against 2-3 big names is not enough imo.
But then you are going to tell me Machine is better than Nerchio, and that Incontrol ows Socke u_u
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On May 02 2012 04:13 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:11 masterbreti wrote:On May 02 2012 03:14 Diamond wrote:
What trash. Using the same basis there is no reason Cloud should be making money, he has a 50% winate in TLPD, has no notable major event wins, and has next to no marketability.
Why is he getting paid to play SC2 again?
Players need to not throw stones in glass houses. I think you need to read liquidpedia some more http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ClouDTaking out players like Sjow, Socke, Kas is no joke. Cloud is very very good, better than 90% of foreign Terran, in the top 10 in europe when he is in form, when not he would be top 20 Terrans in europe. I know very well who Cloud is. His 50% winrate in the international scene also tells me more then LP could. Beating some good players does not make you a good player. Winning tournaments and posting results does. Things Cloud has not done in SC2 (and no, EPS does not count to anyone outside EU).
I'm sorry what?
You seem very uptight.
So you are telling me that the esv weekly means nothing as well. then, since it doesn't matter to anyone outside Korea.
A tournament is a tournament no matter where its located. EPs has some of the best players outside korea playing in it. Tell me Hasuobs is bad, or socke, or kas even. Cloud goes head to head with each of them and can beat them.
Cloud is easily a top level foreigner on the same level as players like Kas, thorzain, and others.
Are you also saying Jinro is bad, or sheth? because they have not posted results recently? Thorzain didn't post a major result for a entire year, yet he was considered a top foreigner.
Results does not mean they are bad players, or good ones. just means they have some stuff competition.
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On May 02 2012 04:31 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:03 Otolia wrote:
Another one of ClouD "events", this guy are serious issues. He is bad at SC2, he never achieved anything of note and when he has an issue with something it has always something to do with money.
He isn't discussing anything he is just randomly pointing fingers at people. no hes ur just clueless about the game, cloud makes alot of good points but hes an honest person by nature so whenever he talks about something he comes off as being condescending but thats just who he is as a person, if u ever get to know him youd understand that hes actually a good guy im sure he thought about rephrasing alot of his statements just so he could be politically correct but in the end he probably didnt care because hes not a fake peson
amen =)
@masterbreti i love cloud and its good youre defending him but no he is not on the same lvl as thorzain, I'm sure he would disagree with you himself there.
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On May 02 2012 04:36 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:31 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 02 2012 02:03 Otolia wrote:
Another one of ClouD "events", this guy are serious issues. He is bad at SC2, he never achieved anything of note and when he has an issue with something it has always something to do with money.
He isn't discussing anything he is just randomly pointing fingers at people. no hes ur just clueless about the game, cloud makes alot of good points but hes an honest person by nature so whenever he talks about something he comes off as being condescending but thats just who he is as a person, if u ever get to know him youd understand that hes actually a good guy im sure he thought about rephrasing alot of his statements just so he could be politically correct but in the end he probably didnt care because hes not a fake peson amen =) @masterbreti i love cloud and its good youre defending him but no he is not on the same lvl as thorzain, I'm sure he would disagree with you himself there.
I'm not saying that. What I'm simply saying is that just because one does not post results, doesn't mean they are not good. That was the point of my post. And I do think cloud is on the same level as thorzain. I think it would be a very close BO3 if it came down to that.
Diamond is going on about how bad cloud is based on his "results" and I'm simply saying is that so many other top players have not posted results, yet still are good players. judging someone on results is a bad way to go about things.
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Das Video ist heftig leise.
User was warned for this post
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On May 02 2012 04:31 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:03 Otolia wrote:
Another one of ClouD "events", this guy are serious issues. He is bad at SC2, he never achieved anything of note and when he has an issue with something it has always something to do with money.
He isn't discussing anything he is just randomly pointing fingers at people. no hes not ur just clueless about the game, cloud makes alot of good points but hes an honest person by nature so whenever he talks about something he comes off as being condescending, if u ever get to know him youd understand that hes actually a good person im sure he thought about rephrasing alot of his statements just so he could be politically correct but in the end he probably didnt care because hes not fake
Quoted for truth. Cloud one of the best terrans in EU, has been there for a long time and will probably be there for a looong looooong time. He has the balls to say something a lot of players think.
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I actually agree with him when casters and Esport orginasation(MLG PPV) makes so much money of the players that recieve allmost nothing for there hard work then we got a problem.
Respect Cloud once again you are the man who got the balls to come forward and say whats wrong.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
I see the points made in that casters do/have in the past increased the popularity of the scene. It's a fair point to make, but in certain cases I think the security of tenure that is had by being a pioneer can be counter-productive. To take an example, somebody like Day9 is, barring some ridiculous outburst, not going to be supplanted from his current position. It'll be interesting to see how it goes, I for one think that the temptation to cast will start to be too much of a lure for big-name players, most of whom are much better at analytical casting than the current staple.
I use the example of Day9 because he is a massive figure in the community, and gets a lot of the plum jobs, not as a criticism of his casting which I greatly enjoy.
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I agree witch ClouD : d i think he makes a lot of good points
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Cool thing for cloud to do, he doesn't get enough love, he's definitely really good.
On May 01 2012 23:38 Kaitokid wrote:
At this point I'd like to talk about iNcontroL, he gets a lot of hate for being a "bad progamer" and many people don't like that he has a lot of support.
The only reason this gets said is that a lot of people in this community don't actually know anything about Starcraft. He gets a lot of attention because he is a pretty charismatic guy who is on some community shows and contributes. Alot of people watch his games and they just see a win or a loss and can't understand most of what they're seeing so they just thing "he's fucking terrible!". In reality, a lot of the times iNcontroL loses games he outplayed the person for most of the game, then did something too aggressively and loses for it or got caught by a situation that's pretty hard in the metagame right now (not saying that he doesn't get outplayed in situations where he knows how to win, but it's not the majority of his casted games). I'd love to see SC2 fans in a LR of an old JulyZerg game in BW, they'd say he was the worst player they'd ever seen.
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I agree about how a lot of casters don't put in enough time to improve themselves which can make it seem like they are just taking advantage of a popular game. There are some casters who have casted different games prior to sc2 and appear to have simply latched onto the next big thing.
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On May 02 2012 04:13 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:11 masterbreti wrote:On May 02 2012 03:14 Diamond wrote:
What trash. Using the same basis there is no reason Cloud should be making money, he has a 50% winate in TLPD, has no notable major event wins, and has next to no marketability.
Why is he getting paid to play SC2 again?
Players need to not throw stones in glass houses. I think you need to read liquidpedia some more http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ClouDTaking out players like Sjow, Socke, Kas is no joke. Cloud is very very good, better than 90% of foreign Terran, in the top 10 in europe when he is in form, when not he would be top 20 Terrans in europe. I know very well who Cloud is. His 50% winrate in the international scene also tells me more then LP could. Beating some good players does not make you a good player. Winning tournaments and posting results does. Things Cloud has not done in SC2 (and no, EPS does not count to anyone outside EU).
LOL EPS is more important than any ESV tournament ever.
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wtf does his record even matter for, this thing has been discussed by a lot of people for a lot of time, and to be honest, i respect cloud for actually putting it down and making the issue more "public"
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In sports a lot of commentators are old players. That can't really happen yet in sc2.
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Some valid points. If your job is to cast a game, you should know the game you're talking about. And some don't.
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On May 02 2012 04:52 Champloo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:13 Diamond wrote:On May 02 2012 04:11 masterbreti wrote:On May 02 2012 03:14 Diamond wrote:
What trash. Using the same basis there is no reason Cloud should be making money, he has a 50% winate in TLPD, has no notable major event wins, and has next to no marketability.
Why is he getting paid to play SC2 again?
Players need to not throw stones in glass houses. I think you need to read liquidpedia some more http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ClouDTaking out players like Sjow, Socke, Kas is no joke. Cloud is very very good, better than 90% of foreign Terran, in the top 10 in europe when he is in form, when not he would be top 20 Terrans in europe. I know very well who Cloud is. His 50% winrate in the international scene also tells me more then LP could. Beating some good players does not make you a good player. Winning tournaments and posting results does. Things Cloud has not done in SC2 (and no, EPS does not count to anyone outside EU). LOL EPS is more important than any ESV tournament ever.
Yet EPS champions have yet to win major lans. ESV champions have won both NASL's, GSL Code S, take the Top 2 in IPL 4 and more. But I agree ESV does not matter in the sense winning it does not make you a top player. It makes you someone to look out for at most. That's what winning major lans are for.
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how about listening to what he says before critizicing ClouDs skilllevel.
What he says has many true points, but i also disagree with him in some points.
He underrates Apollo imo, i think he has great insight and matches Totalbiscuit well.
but i have to agree with everything else.
most casters are bad, there are few i enjoy to listen to (who are not players).
those would be tastosis, apollo/tb, KevinKnocke and to some extend bitterdam, khaldor, doa and wolf.
Everyone else is in the "gold" league of casting, while you have to be beyond GM to get recognition as a player.
ClouD may not be a top foreigner, but hes certainly pretty good. Yet, he probably still earns less then the average professional caster who most likely doesnt know what hes talking about.
On May 02 2012 04:58 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 04:52 Champloo wrote:On May 02 2012 04:13 Diamond wrote:On May 02 2012 04:11 masterbreti wrote:On May 02 2012 03:14 Diamond wrote:
What trash. Using the same basis there is no reason Cloud should be making money, he has a 50% winate in TLPD, has no notable major event wins, and has next to no marketability.
Why is he getting paid to play SC2 again?
Players need to not throw stones in glass houses. I think you need to read liquidpedia some more http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ClouDTaking out players like Sjow, Socke, Kas is no joke. Cloud is very very good, better than 90% of foreign Terran, in the top 10 in europe when he is in form, when not he would be top 20 Terrans in europe. I know very well who Cloud is. His 50% winrate in the international scene also tells me more then LP could. Beating some good players does not make you a good player. Winning tournaments and posting results does. Things Cloud has not done in SC2 (and no, EPS does not count to anyone outside EU). LOL EPS is more important than any ESV tournament ever. Yet EPS champions have yet to win major lans. ESV champions have won both NASL's, GSL Code S, IPL 4 and more. But I agree ESV does not matter in the sense winning it does not make you a top player. It makes you someone to look out for at most. That's what winning major lans are for.
1) this is so offtopic and has nothing to do with the video and the points cloud talks about.
2) just because a great player wins ESV tournaments, its just a random online cup with korean participants. the EPS lives for 10 years and is like the most stable tournament there is in e-sports. although its a national tournament, the importance is undoubtably higher till ESV has offline finals.
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EPT
