EPTTalking Balance with David Kim - Page 47
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On April 29 2012 04:49 PureBalls wrote: Stutter step is like the easiest micro in the game. Even Code S terrans hardly ever focus with vikings. And EMPs are easier to cast than good storms. Protoss micro is much, much harder than terran micro. No, moving the collosus back is the easiest micro in the game, or using zealots to attack a target in the back of the Terran army so that they charge in and surround Terran army is the easiest micro in the game. Blink is micro-intensive, not micro-hard. You click B and blink back, as fast as possible. It's like those typing games where you try to type the preset words as fast as possible. Those are intensive, yes, but hardly hard because you gradually can do it mechanically. On the other hand, if you shutter step too slow, you got killed by aoe units, if you shutter step too fast, you're wasting dps. Moreover, lots of thing such as wild zealots, storms, ff can disrupt the pace. This is like those dance games where you try to match perfect your step with the arrow and letters and stuff, song rhythm and random effects will greatly affect your performance especially if the song is new everytime you play. So, if you play those dance games, you will notice you have to type less than typing game, but it's much harder. EMP is indeed strong, but not as strong as it makes out to be. It serves a niche that storm doesn't: EMP only destroy 100 shield. - EMP is only for initiate. To maximize the shield damage, you have to cast EMP before going to battle. One damage done by your army is one damage lost for EMP spell. If immortal has 100 shield, and your army deal 30 damage (3 marauder shot only) before EMP hit, EMP only deal 70 damage instead of 100. Imagine the more damage your units deal, the weaker storms is going to be, does that sound fun? So while storms can be useful in every given time during the engage, EMP is only good for initiate or similar scenarios. - Although emp deal 100 damage to shield, most of Protoss units don't have 100 shield. In fact, Immortal has 100 shields (1 wild shot from any unit will lower the maximize effect of emp), Collosus has 150 shield (3 attack from vikings will make emp weaker), only archon can guarantee 100 damage from emp, but then again, it takes 4 emp to kill the archon.... So when Protoss whine about storm never do full damage of 80 damage, remember, so does EMP. - Given EMP and storm radius of 1.5 (diameter of 3), and typical unit move speed is 2.25(3.38 when stim, you lose 10 hp though) an average storm can guarantee 40 damage to units. So 2 hit EMP can guarantee 0-50 damage to zealots, 0-80 to stalker, 0-100 to immortal, 0-150 to collosus, while 2 hit storms can guarantee 80-160 damage to marines/marauder/medivac/ghost/viking/wild pokemon..... . And turn out if marines lose 80 hp, they die and dps lost, while zealots losing 50 hp don't die. - I don't remember what I'm thinking, so I guess that's it. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On April 29 2012 07:25 xtruder wrote: Why is that bad Terran player using bio against Protoss? score: Terran fanboys 0 Protoss fanboys 1 I love posts like these. Makes me proud not to be a Protoss player. | ||
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On April 29 2012 07:29 Pwnani wrote: no I am masters you can afford it because you can afford 2 starport + 2 racks(with 2 reactors) on 1 base, (e.g. the banshee marine timing at 9 min along time ago) So basically what this is is a 2 base timing it comes a little later but it hits way harder. Basically you do a 3 rack fe, but you make a tech lab and then 2 reactors, the tech lab is going to be for your marine upgrades etc... then when you land your at ur expo you get 2 gases immediately. (Now because of the meta game all protosses are doing is sitting in their bases most often you will see a 1 gate expo this build is perfect but it is a bit weak to a 7 gate(you will have cloak banshee at that time anyways). Basically, you do your regular build, but instead of making a million vikings and medivacs with ghosts and marauders, you take all that gas and put it into banshees. As for how I know, you can determine that quite easily if you scan him at about 10 min, you will see a crap ton of zealots, this means hes teching, and this means hes going either archon, temp charge. Or temp colusus charge, his stalker count will be low and you can just engage him deny his third and then take your own third. You will have the mobilty to move around the map just make sure you scan and try and pick off his obs before doing this strat and make your starports somewhere which is not easily scouted so you dont run into a million stalkers(though its still pretty good vs stalkers). So you're recommending a 2 base Banshee/Marine allin. I already have a build like that that I use occasionally; it dies to a Protoss who scouts it and either A. if they've already committed to colossus tech, adds phoenix or B. if they've committed to templar tech, just keeps making chargelots and high templar to roll your ground army which doesn't have any medivacs and feedback+storm+battle banshees with stalkers. If they're going for a quick 3rd they can outmacro you. If they stay on gateway units too long they die. If they try to take a 3rd too late they die. If they micro poorly with Templar tech they die. However if you're dealing with a colossus player as you mention, pure phoenix/colossus/zealot will romp your build. | ||
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
On April 29 2012 07:51 SupLilSon wrote: I love posts like these. Makes me proud not to be a Protoss player. If he's suggesting that the best Terrans don't build MMM vs Toss, he's wrong. But if he's suggesting that "bad" Terran players (those without high enough APM to use bio to its maximum) shouldn't use Bio vs P, he may be correct. I'm not sure how effective Mech is in Diamond and below. Even if that isn't what he meant, the sentiment in the post he quoted that Terran is a more difficult race than Protoss is so prevalent and in my opinion so incorrect that I don't blame him for getting frustrated and posting something stupid in response to something stupid. | ||
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
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Gackt_
335 Posts
On April 29 2012 06:42 Steel wrote: yeah but zerg players have a year of experience at stopping cheese (majority of ladder) so the ladder percentages look good, and randomly 1 zerg rises above everyone and wins a tournament so that makes everything okay. That is EXACTLY how I feel about it too. And it's pretty much how it actually is. Lol, I just wish Blizzard was looking into this.. | ||
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InoyouS2
1005 Posts
On April 29 2012 08:06 crocodile wrote: How on earth did you get to master league with this poor of an understanding of the game? One word: Protoss. User was warned for this post | ||
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
No I am terran lol. | ||
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On April 29 2012 05:45 sieksdekciw wrote: More like one a move and then storms. What about storms requires precision? You just pick the biggest clump of units and hit it. By the way, i am getting more and more amused by your repetitive tries to defend an obviously wrong cause. Can't happen man, we all know how hard toss micro is and, truth be told, it's not that hard and it doesn't require much precision than a moving behind your enemy's army. Face it tossie, you aren't doing much and still winning, whatever you want us to believe is you are doing. You can lie to yourself, but not to the whole community. Toss micro is a child's play compared to terran micro. FACE IT. ADMIT IT. Man I'm glad I don't play this game, reading posts like these is so much more fun xD I totally lost it at the "Face it. Admit it" part. More please. | ||
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PureBalls
Austria383 Posts
On April 29 2012 08:33 Salteador Neo wrote: Man I'm glad I don't play this game, reading posts like these is so much more fun xD I totally lost it at the "Face it. Admit it" part. More please. Funny as hell, isnt it? xD | ||
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SwizzY
United States1549 Posts
Both races have different mechanics that have their own "do-or-die" moments. Protoss often need pinpoint FF, that if misplaced, lead to straight up GG. Terran often have more critical points in decision making, that if made incorrectly, lead to straight up GG. And there are so many factors in between the lines about EMP range vs. Storm range or Stutter-step vs. 1-A Chargelots; (For these particular scenarios, positioning is a major factor, but I digress). But I guarantee you, with fucking money on the line, that it didn't just come down to, "OMG I PLAYED SO PERFECTLY BUT PROTOSS 1-A GG INSTA WIN." You're much worse at this game than you think. Upload a replay and I, personally, will tear you a new asshole. Protoss as well. You are not playing the game as perfect as you think, and it did not just come down to: "OMG, GHOSTS CLOAK AND SNIPE ALL HT OMG WHY TERRAN QQ???" None of you have any real insight into strategy or even balance for that matter. Stop typing with an authority you don't have. In reference to OP: David Kim translation: Unless Protoss starts winning 60%, we ain't changing anything till HotS. Time for vay-cay. | ||
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Pwnani
Canada27 Posts
On April 29 2012 08:48 SwizzY wrote: When did "Balance with David Kim" turn into "Balance with D-level Terran/Toss" Both races have different mechanics that have their own "do-or-die" moments. Protoss often need pinpoint FF, that if misplaced, lead to straight up GG. Terran often have more critical points in decision making, that if made incorrectly, lead to straight up GG. And there are so many factors in between the lines about EMP range vs. Storm range or Stutter-step vs. 1-A Chargelots; (For these particular scenarios, positioning is a major factor, but I digress). But I guarantee you, with fucking money on the line, that it didn't just come down to, "OMG I PLAYED SO PERFECTLY BUT PROTOSS 1-A GG INSTA WIN." You're much worse at this game than you think. Upload a replay and I, personally, will tear you a new asshole. Protoss as well. You are not playing the game as perfect as you think, and it did not just come down to: "OMG, GHOSTS CLOAK AND SNIPE ALL HT OMG WHY TERRAN QQ???" None of you have any real insight into strategy or even balance for that matter. Stop typing with an authority you don't have. In reference to OP: David Kim translation: Unless Protoss starts winning 60%, we ain't changing anything till HotS. Time for vay-cay. Much easier to cast a ff, on a ramp then it is to micro a group of units while trying to emp storms. Just sayin. | ||
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SwizzY
United States1549 Posts
On April 29 2012 08:58 Pwnani wrote: Much easier to cast a ff, on a ramp then it is to micro a group of units while trying to emp storms. Just sayin. It's easier to que a drop behind a vital base during a major battle than it is to position HT away from ghosts. It's easier to archon toilet than it is to set up multi-prong attacks. It's easier to pee than it is to poop. Your comments literally mean nothing with no context. And for every context you make that supports you, I can make one that supports me. This "balance" discussion is worthless. | ||
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teamhozac
404 Posts
our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom On April 29 2012 08:48 SwizzY wrote: In reference to OP: David Kim translation: Unless Protoss starts winning 60%, we ain't changing anything till HotS. Time for vay-cay. You really hit the nail on the head there, lol try harder | ||
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