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On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen
EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse. why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.
The problem I see is that all leagues are lumped into one stat. It would have been interesting to see the stats separated by league. As an extreme, if the bottom half of the league is 30% TvZ, and the top half of the league is 70% TvZ, the game isn't balanced for anyone, but the overall stats would show 50% balance
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On April 27 2012 10:49 Purind wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen
EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse. why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong. The problem I see is that all leagues are lumped into one stat. It would have been interesting to see the stats separated by league. As an extreme, if the bottom half of the league is 30% TvZ, and the top half of the league is 70% TvZ, the game isn't balanced for anyone, but the overall stats would show 50% balance
While I would like these stats to be made public as well, that probably isn't going to happen. Blizzard is not likely to give any reason for anyone to call imba.
Edit: Which is why I think that they released these stats--to fend off said cries of imba.
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On April 27 2012 10:49 Purind wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen
EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse. why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong. The problem I see is that all leagues are lumped into one stat. It would have been interesting to see the stats separated by league. As an extreme, if the bottom half of the league is 30% TvZ, and the top half of the league is 70% TvZ, the game isn't balanced for anyone, but the overall stats would show 50% balance
It's unrealistic to think you can have 50-50 balance for every match up at every level. The most important level to balance for is the highest level because at lower levels you have more scope to play better to overcome a match up.
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I'm still wondering who or what can get the balance team to sit down, realize what they're doing wrong, and then make changes happen.
It may require multiple rolled-up newspapers.
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On April 27 2012 10:42 turdburgler wrote:
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?
i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done
I'd assume they either ignore the stats where the ladder places you against someone you are supposed to win and supposed to loose against or in the least takes results from those games with less value than those with players of equal skill level.
It's pretty disheartening to see Blizzard just ignoring TvP lategame. Stats can be quite misleading and you really can't just balance a game purely from it, which I feel blizzard is trying to do way to much, rather than focus on that both races have equal chance from begin to end(assuming same skill level ofc).
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You have to stick to statistics to try to filter out the bias and emotions. Still, methinks these statistics may not be adaptive enough
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Seriously though, the game is not that imbalance. I think it is pretty close. If people is crying TvP late game, please learn to get double starports, 8 barracks with Ghost upgrades. but DK needs to buff more units that is never used, such as carrier, hydralisk, Terran T3 in tvp.
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On April 27 2012 10:54 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:49 Purind wrote:On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen
EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse. why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong. The problem I see is that all leagues are lumped into one stat. It would have been interesting to see the stats separated by league. As an extreme, if the bottom half of the league is 30% TvZ, and the top half of the league is 70% TvZ, the game isn't balanced for anyone, but the overall stats would show 50% balance It's unrealistic to think you can have 50-50 balance for every match up at every level. The most important level to balance for is the highest level because at lower levels you have more scope to play better to overcome a match up.
Even if it is unrealistic, it would be interesting to be able to see the stats from every league to see where the state of balance is. IMO, anyway.
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"zerg need better scouting early game" how is it that it takes these guys 1+ years after release to figure this out? so sad
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Terrans still on about TvP late game, not like KA is still in the game.
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I for one, have complete confidence in David Kim and the Blizzard balance team's competence. I mean, he WAS the senior balancer for DoW 2 and Retribution right? Look at how those games turned out! Totally did not favor any of the eight races and was a completely wonderful and painless multiplayer experience with good scales of skill level. And they were even featured at WCG! Twice!
I'm sure that with the levels of skill and experience inside the balance team combined with the veteran leadership of David Kim(previously expressed in various interviews), they are more than qualified to balance each part of the game of each matchup to uphold their high standards for balance and their ideal blend of skill levels amongst the players that ladder.
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The ladder system is meant to keep the vast majority of players at a 50% win ratio. Of course over all leagues this even balanced state will show..
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Finally, they realised zerg have problem scouting terrans early game? Took them 2 years..
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On April 27 2012 11:06 unknownGamer wrote:
Finally, they realised zerg have problem scouting terrans early game? Took them 2 years..
I always thought that was counter acted by the fact they have by far the most map vision and mobility.
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Blizzard is falling behind in the User Interface metagame when compared to other competitive games and a realistic update is needed for HOTS. I really love SC2, but I don't think I would care much for the HOTS multiplayer if it remains the same...
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Every time David Kim does one of these, the community takes it as an opportunity to QQ. For the love of god, stop doing these Blizz.
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On April 27 2012 10:47 blade55555 wrote:
How they get these statistics, I am so positive they make this shit up lol.
Well if that's what you believe then you shouldn't even bother reading anything they say because they're obviously a bad company that lies to its playerbase.
I too am not happy that they aren't doing anything to the TvP late game but according to these stats they don't really need to as t he general win rates are still very even especially in Korea.
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On April 27 2012 11:12 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Every time David Kim does one of these, the community takes it as an opportunity to QQ. For the love of god, stop doing these Blizz.
Haha this.
Its especially baffling considering that now most of the QQ comes from T who.... are half and half with P in Code S, won Dreamhack, and last MLG?
P lategame may be powerful but the MU is obviously winnable.
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On April 27 2012 10:30 Mirosuu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:28 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I have the same concerns about TvP...also, I found their comment that Protoss had the lowest representation at the highest levels of tournaments. Huh? The majority of the top 8 in current code S are protoss... Most represented race in GSL is terran. What's your point?
Do you have a problem reading, here? Both the above referenced statement from David Kim and my post specifically refer to the highest levels of tournaments. Code A/Ro32 aren't the highest level of the tournament, obviously.
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EPT
