• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:47
CET 00:47
KST 08:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros9[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION2Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest5
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four DreamHack Open 2013 revealed RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros
Tourneys
Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Kirktown Chat Brawl #9 $50 8:30PM EST 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
What's going on with b.net? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ladder Map Matchup Stats Map pack for 3v3/4v4/FFA games BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread The Perfect Game Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
more word salad -- pay no h…
Peanutsc
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1601 users

Talking Balance with David Kim - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1416 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 69 70 71 Next
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 27 2012 01:32 GMT
#21
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.

Seriously they must not read.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
April 27 2012 01:33 GMT
#22
On April 27 2012 10:28 Kira__ wrote:
keep in mind that the stats shown there are ALL leagues... so they mean fuck all.


So painful to have these stats analyzed and used as justifications when they reflect every league. -_-
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:35:37
April 27 2012 01:35 GMT
#23
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 27 2012 01:35 GMT
#24
Why do they even bother showing every league? They used to show each league.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#25
On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.


why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:37:03
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#26
I'll be real, anyone who watches or plays enough sc2 knows that Protoss is too favored in the late game vs Terran at the moment. I'm not sure if there just needs to be a metagame shift or if they actually have to patch something or adjust maps, but It's starting to get kind of silly.

We'll see what happens, maybe a new biomech composition needs to be dreamed up or something.

edit: also this comes from a protoss player
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:36:58
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#27
--- Nuked ---
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#28
"Protoss has good representation in terms of the number of protoss tournament qualifiers at the general professional level, but has the lowest representation at the very highest professional level."

This article is an absolute joke.
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1926 Posts
April 27 2012 01:38 GMT
#29
Please don't make PvZ harder >< These stats... :L

O well.. I guess we can expect only so much T_T
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
Encrypto
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
April 27 2012 01:38 GMT
#30
On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.


why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.


Balance in each individual league is very different than balance overall.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
April 27 2012 01:39 GMT
#31
70% PvT win rate on Cloud Kingdom is quite significant I feel, that roughly 2 Protoss wins for every Terran victory.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
April 27 2012 01:39 GMT
#32
They only talk about gerneral win rate again, as usual. No mention whatsoever about TvP mid game, or late game, or BL/infestor,....
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
April 27 2012 01:40 GMT
#33
On April 27 2012 10:14 Encrypto wrote:
In our current map pool, we’re seeing that not every map we’ve added to our pool is balanced for every matchup. For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. It’s worth noting that these represent the heaviest imbalances in the maps on our ladder, but that this also isn’t necessarily a problem.

Our current stance on this is we believe slight imbalances in maps actually make the game more interesting, as long as the imbalances aren’t too great.



70%, 62% and 37% aren't too great? What?
Inno pls...
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:49:41
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#34
Terran dominated the last three MLGs (apart from DRG just pipping MKP in the final of the last one, Dreamhack, Asus, The Gathering, Copenhagen Games and still have had good representation in the GSL. They have a 60-40% win rate in Korea at tournament level and a 54-46% win rate over protoss internationally as of last month. The amount of hysterical whining from terran players when they are still getting far better results than the other races is completely ridiculous. I'm hope David Kim and the balance team don't let themselves be influenced by such senseless advocacy.

http://imgur.com/a/XmBDV
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#35
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?

i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#36
Even David Kim uses the word metagame to mean "the popular strategy". sigh
Holytornados
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:46:34
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#37
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.


Micro better? Terran has the higher skill cap for a reason =D

Edit: I like the current balance. I'm curious if they are going to do anything about the map imbalance in the foreseeable future.
CLG/Liquid ~~ youtube.com/reddedgaming
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#38
On April 27 2012 10:42 turdburgler wrote:
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?

i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done

only blizzard knows ~~
SDMF
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:49:30
April 27 2012 01:47 GMT
#39
On April 27 2012 10:36 Dodgin wrote:
I'll be real, anyone who watches or plays enough sc2 knows that Protoss is too favored in the late game vs Terran at the moment. I'm not sure if there just needs to be a metagame shift or if they actually have to patch something or adjust maps, but It's starting to get kind of silly.

We'll see what happens, maybe a new biomech composition needs to be dreamed up or something.

edit: also this comes from a protoss player


Terran is still favored earlier game and has better overall win rates both in Korea and internationally at the highest level. Why would they patch it when terran still has better win rates at tournament level?

http://imgur.com/a/XmBDV
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 27 2012 01:47 GMT
#40
How they get these statistics, I am so positive they make this shit up lol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 69 70 71 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC4ALL
14:00
SC4ALL - Day 1
Artosis651
RotterdaM606
ComeBackTV 432
PiGStarcraft407
CranKy Ducklings156
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Artosis 651
RotterdaM 606
PiGStarcraft407
ProTech99
Livibee 68
SpeCial 2
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 117
NaDa 77
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1548
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor175
Other Games
FrodaN3755
Grubby3215
KnowMe234
Liquid`Hasu206
Skadoodle87
ViBE35
Mew2King31
Dewaltoss17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1855
BasetradeTV41
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 55
• RyuSc2 44
• musti20045 40
• davetesta16
• HeavenSC 14
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21648
League of Legends
• Doublelift6054
• HappyZerGling102
Other Games
• imaqtpie1075
• Scarra676
Upcoming Events
BSL Team A[vengers]
14h 13m
Cross vs Sobenz
Sziky vs IcaruS
SC4ALL
15h 13m
SC4ALL
15h 13m
BSL 21
19h 13m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Wardi Open
1d 12h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 17h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
IPSL
6 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
SC4ALL: Brood War
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.