• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:37
CEST 04:37
KST 11:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out, overreactions imminent?0RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out, overreactions imminent? SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL22 General Discussion How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4064 users

Talking Balance with David Kim - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1416 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 69 70 71 Next
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 27 2012 01:32 GMT
#21
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.

Seriously they must not read.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
April 27 2012 01:33 GMT
#22
On April 27 2012 10:28 Kira__ wrote:
keep in mind that the stats shown there are ALL leagues... so they mean fuck all.


So painful to have these stats analyzed and used as justifications when they reflect every league. -_-
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:35:37
April 27 2012 01:35 GMT
#23
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 27 2012 01:35 GMT
#24
Why do they even bother showing every league? They used to show each league.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#25
On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.


why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:37:03
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#26
I'll be real, anyone who watches or plays enough sc2 knows that Protoss is too favored in the late game vs Terran at the moment. I'm not sure if there just needs to be a metagame shift or if they actually have to patch something or adjust maps, but It's starting to get kind of silly.

We'll see what happens, maybe a new biomech composition needs to be dreamed up or something.

edit: also this comes from a protoss player
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:36:58
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#27
--- Nuked ---
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#28
"Protoss has good representation in terms of the number of protoss tournament qualifiers at the general professional level, but has the lowest representation at the very highest professional level."

This article is an absolute joke.
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1927 Posts
April 27 2012 01:38 GMT
#29
Please don't make PvZ harder >< These stats... :L

O well.. I guess we can expect only so much T_T
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
Encrypto
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
April 27 2012 01:38 GMT
#30
On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.


why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.


Balance in each individual league is very different than balance overall.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
April 27 2012 01:39 GMT
#31
70% PvT win rate on Cloud Kingdom is quite significant I feel, that roughly 2 Protoss wins for every Terran victory.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
April 27 2012 01:39 GMT
#32
They only talk about gerneral win rate again, as usual. No mention whatsoever about TvP mid game, or late game, or BL/infestor,....
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
April 27 2012 01:40 GMT
#33
On April 27 2012 10:14 Encrypto wrote:
In our current map pool, we’re seeing that not every map we’ve added to our pool is balanced for every matchup. For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. It’s worth noting that these represent the heaviest imbalances in the maps on our ladder, but that this also isn’t necessarily a problem.

Our current stance on this is we believe slight imbalances in maps actually make the game more interesting, as long as the imbalances aren’t too great.



70%, 62% and 37% aren't too great? What?
Inno pls...
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:49:41
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#34
Terran dominated the last three MLGs (apart from DRG just pipping MKP in the final of the last one, Dreamhack, Asus, The Gathering, Copenhagen Games and still have had good representation in the GSL. They have a 60-40% win rate in Korea at tournament level and a 54-46% win rate over protoss internationally as of last month. The amount of hysterical whining from terran players when they are still getting far better results than the other races is completely ridiculous. I'm hope David Kim and the balance team don't let themselves be influenced by such senseless advocacy.

http://imgur.com/a/XmBDV
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#35
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?

i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#36
Even David Kim uses the word metagame to mean "the popular strategy". sigh
Holytornados
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:46:34
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#37
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.


Micro better? Terran has the higher skill cap for a reason =D

Edit: I like the current balance. I'm curious if they are going to do anything about the map imbalance in the foreseeable future.
CLG/Liquid ~~ youtube.com/reddedgaming
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#38
On April 27 2012 10:42 turdburgler wrote:
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?

i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done

only blizzard knows ~~
SDMF
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:49:30
April 27 2012 01:47 GMT
#39
On April 27 2012 10:36 Dodgin wrote:
I'll be real, anyone who watches or plays enough sc2 knows that Protoss is too favored in the late game vs Terran at the moment. I'm not sure if there just needs to be a metagame shift or if they actually have to patch something or adjust maps, but It's starting to get kind of silly.

We'll see what happens, maybe a new biomech composition needs to be dreamed up or something.

edit: also this comes from a protoss player


Terran is still favored earlier game and has better overall win rates both in Korea and internationally at the highest level. Why would they patch it when terran still has better win rates at tournament level?

http://imgur.com/a/XmBDV
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 27 2012 01:47 GMT
#40
How they get these statistics, I am so positive they make this shit up lol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 69 70 71 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech87
PattyMac 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3897
GuemChi 2721
Artosis 575
Terrorterran 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm193
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 465
Counter-Strike
summit1g8292
m0e_tv534
taco 320
minikerr42
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King107
Other Games
C9.Mang0505
Day[9].tv424
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1010
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile151
• davetesta26
• OhrlRock 1
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• Pr0nogo 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2622
League of Legends
• Scarra1722
• Stunt438
Other Games
• Day9tv424
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
7h 23m
PiG Sty Festival
9h 23m
PiGosaur Cup
21h 23m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-10
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.