• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:27
CEST 16:27
KST 23:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners5Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Douyu Cup 2026 Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
Data needed Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW fans in southern Sweden, look here! 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7185 users

Talking Balance with David Kim - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1416 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 69 70 71 Next
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 27 2012 01:32 GMT
#21
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.

Seriously they must not read.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
April 27 2012 01:33 GMT
#22
On April 27 2012 10:28 Kira__ wrote:
keep in mind that the stats shown there are ALL leagues... so they mean fuck all.


So painful to have these stats analyzed and used as justifications when they reflect every league. -_-
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:35:37
April 27 2012 01:35 GMT
#23
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 27 2012 01:35 GMT
#24
Why do they even bother showing every league? They used to show each league.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#25
On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.


why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:37:03
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#26
I'll be real, anyone who watches or plays enough sc2 knows that Protoss is too favored in the late game vs Terran at the moment. I'm not sure if there just needs to be a metagame shift or if they actually have to patch something or adjust maps, but It's starting to get kind of silly.

We'll see what happens, maybe a new biomech composition needs to be dreamed up or something.

edit: also this comes from a protoss player
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:36:58
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#27
--- Nuked ---
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
April 27 2012 01:36 GMT
#28
"Protoss has good representation in terms of the number of protoss tournament qualifiers at the general professional level, but has the lowest representation at the very highest professional level."

This article is an absolute joke.
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1926 Posts
April 27 2012 01:38 GMT
#29
Please don't make PvZ harder >< These stats... :L

O well.. I guess we can expect only so much T_T
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
Encrypto
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
April 27 2012 01:38 GMT
#30
On April 27 2012 10:36 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen

EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.


why? they said they care about balance in all leagues. If there is a huge disparity when the ladder is supposed to be designed for 50% win rates their is obviously something wrong.


Balance in each individual league is very different than balance overall.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
April 27 2012 01:39 GMT
#31
70% PvT win rate on Cloud Kingdom is quite significant I feel, that roughly 2 Protoss wins for every Terran victory.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
April 27 2012 01:39 GMT
#32
They only talk about gerneral win rate again, as usual. No mention whatsoever about TvP mid game, or late game, or BL/infestor,....
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
April 27 2012 01:40 GMT
#33
On April 27 2012 10:14 Encrypto wrote:
In our current map pool, we’re seeing that not every map we’ve added to our pool is balanced for every matchup. For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. It’s worth noting that these represent the heaviest imbalances in the maps on our ladder, but that this also isn’t necessarily a problem.

Our current stance on this is we believe slight imbalances in maps actually make the game more interesting, as long as the imbalances aren’t too great.



70%, 62% and 37% aren't too great? What?
Inno pls...
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:49:41
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#34
Terran dominated the last three MLGs (apart from DRG just pipping MKP in the final of the last one, Dreamhack, Asus, The Gathering, Copenhagen Games and still have had good representation in the GSL. They have a 60-40% win rate in Korea at tournament level and a 54-46% win rate over protoss internationally as of last month. The amount of hysterical whining from terran players when they are still getting far better results than the other races is completely ridiculous. I'm hope David Kim and the balance team don't let themselves be influenced by such senseless advocacy.

http://imgur.com/a/XmBDV
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#35
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?

i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#36
Even David Kim uses the word metagame to mean "the popular strategy". sigh
Holytornados
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:46:34
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#37
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.


Micro better? Terran has the higher skill cap for a reason =D

Edit: I like the current balance. I'm curious if they are going to do anything about the map imbalance in the foreseeable future.
CLG/Liquid ~~ youtube.com/reddedgaming
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
April 27 2012 01:44 GMT
#38
On April 27 2012 10:42 turdburgler wrote:
how exactly do they work out 'unadjusted skill' from ladder when the whole ladder adjusts for your skill so you only get 50% when its working?

i genuinely want to know how this could possibly be done

only blizzard knows ~~
SDMF
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 01:49:30
April 27 2012 01:47 GMT
#39
On April 27 2012 10:36 Dodgin wrote:
I'll be real, anyone who watches or plays enough sc2 knows that Protoss is too favored in the late game vs Terran at the moment. I'm not sure if there just needs to be a metagame shift or if they actually have to patch something or adjust maps, but It's starting to get kind of silly.

We'll see what happens, maybe a new biomech composition needs to be dreamed up or something.

edit: also this comes from a protoss player


Terran is still favored earlier game and has better overall win rates both in Korea and internationally at the highest level. Why would they patch it when terran still has better win rates at tournament level?

http://imgur.com/a/XmBDV
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 27 2012 01:47 GMT
#40
How they get these statistics, I am so positive they make this shit up lol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 69 70 71 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Maestros of the Game
14:00
Playoffs
Classic vs MaruLIVE!
Serral vs herO
TBD vs Rogue
TBD vs Clem
RotterdaM1039
IntoTheiNu 734
ComeBackTV 680
TaKeTV 398
Ryung 234
SteadfastSC153
Rex133
IndyStarCraft 83
3DClanTV 63
EnkiAlexander 62
CosmosSc2 33
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #252
EmpressLilyy37
iHatsuTV 16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 954
Ryung 226
SteadfastSC 134
Rex 133
IndyStarCraft 64
Vindicta 31
CosmosSc2 31
RushiSC 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 57214
Sea 2864
Shuttle 1875
EffOrt 1306
BeSt 515
Soma 497
Jaedong 416
Hyuk 409
Light 387
ggaemo 194
[ Show more ]
Rush 169
Snow 153
Hyun 144
Mong 136
ToSsGirL 122
PianO 95
Free 82
Barracks 65
sorry 63
[sc1f]eonzerg 63
Sacsri 41
Terrorterran 21
soO 21
GoRush 19
Shine 16
Rock 16
IntoTheRainbow 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Dota 2
Gorgc9593
qojqva2104
League of Legends
Reynor57
Counter-Strike
fl0m8954
olofmeister2395
kRYSTAL_35
Other Games
gofns46563
tarik_tv8262
Lowko1772
B2W.Neo681
Beastyqt455
hiko448
crisheroes318
DeMusliM261
mouzStarbuck202
Sick181
KnowMe125
Happy102
ArmadaUGS87
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1457
Other Games
BasetradeTV216
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 17
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3097
• TFBlade807
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 33m
CranKy Ducklings
19h 33m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 4h
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
OSC
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
Acropolis #4 - GSB
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.