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[Show] Climbing The Ladder - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
August 15 2013 21:07 GMT
#321
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.

o.O why
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 15 2013 21:09 GMT
#322
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote:
I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.

No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.

Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
August 15 2013 21:10 GMT
#323
On August 16 2013 06:07 Superiorwolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.

o.O why

Damn, ouch
yo
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
August 15 2013 21:10 GMT
#324
On August 16 2013 06:10 HelloSon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:07 Superiorwolf wrote:
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.

o.O why

Damn, ouch

I know me sad ;(
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
August 15 2013 21:10 GMT
#325
The issue with talking with pro players when it comes to design and redesign is that many of them want so little changes as possible because more changes means a lot more time needed to be dedicated to figure stuff out.

However I think it is necessary to change how protoss works, how the economy pretty much caps out on 3 bases, and how units clump up, all need to be addressed if we want SC 2 to have the same longevity as BW.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
August 15 2013 21:12 GMT
#326
Good job ChanmanV and TOD!

Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
August 15 2013 21:13 GMT
#327
So what is everyone's final impression of the show? Will we see big changes in LOTV?
MMA: The true King of Wings
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3401 Posts
August 15 2013 21:15 GMT
#328
On August 16 2013 06:13 SarcasmMonster wrote:
So what is everyone's final impression of the show? Will we see big changes in LOTV?

I think they will try to make sizable change for LotV beta.
But chances are they will back-down from it within a month.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2013 21:16 GMT
#329
On August 16 2013 06:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote:
I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.

No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.

Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.


I always thought it would be kinda cool to have a unit/units that only can be produced in gateways.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
August 15 2013 21:16 GMT
#330
On August 16 2013 06:13 SarcasmMonster wrote:
So what is everyone's final impression of the show? Will we see big changes in LOTV?


Not unless we pressure Blizzard for them. They are so afraid to destroy the balance that they have accomplished. If we don't ask for major changes we will just get another HotS type of expansion. While that is nice it isn't what this game needs to become truly great.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
August 15 2013 21:17 GMT
#331
Skill-shot abduct sounds awesome, a shame dkim wasn't too fond of it.
Terran & Potato Salad.
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3308 Posts
August 15 2013 21:17 GMT
#332
On August 16 2013 06:10 Superiorwolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:10 HelloSon wrote:
On August 16 2013 06:07 Superiorwolf wrote:
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.

o.O why

Damn, ouch

I know me sad ;(


Aw, don't be sad

I don't think KingofGods has any idea what he is talking about
T P Z sagi
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
August 15 2013 21:19 GMT
#333
On August 16 2013 06:13 SarcasmMonster wrote:
So what is everyone's final impression of the show? Will we see big changes in LOTV?

I think they'll bring back the warhound.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 15 2013 21:20 GMT
#334
On August 16 2013 06:17 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Skill-shot abduct sounds awesome, a shame dkim wasn't too fond of it.


To be honest, it would make it garbage because of how easy it would be to put low tech units in the way of it.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-15 21:26:15
August 15 2013 21:25 GMT
#335
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote:
I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
DK just balance what they give him. Changing forcefield isn't about balance but design. Anyway I would be for some organized pressure to change protoss in LotV. I don't care if aplha/beta will take year or more.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
August 15 2013 21:28 GMT
#336
On August 16 2013 06:25 Tuczniak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote:
I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
DK just balance what they give him. Changing forcefield isn't about balance but design. Anyway I would be for some organized pressure to change protoss in LotV. I don't care if aplha/beta will take year or more.

You/we don't, but the money guys at Blizz might.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
August 15 2013 21:49 GMT
#337
VOD:
MMA: The true King of Wings
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
August 15 2013 22:19 GMT
#338
On August 16 2013 06:20 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:17 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Skill-shot abduct sounds awesome, a shame dkim wasn't too fond of it.


To be honest, it would make it garbage because of how easy it would be to put low tech units in the way of it.


Well still better than abducting nothing. Seeker missile is dodgeable which is cool, it creates 5 sec of tension because you don't know if the targetted unit will escape the missile range or not. I'm sure there is a way to make abduct more enjoyable and skillfull than what it is.
Terran & Potato Salad.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
August 15 2013 23:29 GMT
#339
On August 16 2013 06:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote:
I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.

No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.

Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.


A proper cost:risk ratio for having map wide instant mobility wouldn't "break" Protoss. It would make the race substantially better by giving Gateways *AND* Warpgates usage, because they would both have strength and weaknesses.

However I think the best solution is to remove Warpgate entirely and re-do Protoss properly.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 15 2013 23:35 GMT
#340
On August 16 2013 08:29 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2013 06:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote:
I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.

No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.

Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.


A proper cost:risk ratio for having map wide instant mobility wouldn't "break" Protoss. It would make the race substantially better by giving Gateways *AND* Warpgates usage, because they would both have strength and weaknesses.

However I think the best solution is to remove Warpgate entirely and re-do Protoss properly.

As I said, it would require multiple changes to gateway units to make it remotely workable. As much as people like to complain, the game is at a fairly good balance point. A drastic change like "Reinforcements lose 100 shields" or "Reinforcements must wait 30 seconds before they can attack at full health" is enough to completely break matchups.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
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