Climbing The Ladder is a weekly e-Sports show that discusses the ins and outs of all the various segments of professional gaming (player, team, tournament organizing, sponsors, casting, etc.). The focus of the show will be about clearing up misconceptions in each segment and to hopefully create a problem solving and idea generating environment to help the e-Sports community/industry progress.
Upcoming guests Sean "Day[9]" Plott and Eric Burkhart
im confused as to what this show will really be talking about, what sort of misconceptions do you mean?
I think they are trying to promote additional knowledge about the pro gaming scene. A lot of people make incorrect assumptions about Sc2 e-sports because they just don't have that information.
The Rosen brothers (presidents of TESPA and masterminds of the Lone Star Classic) will be on episode 3! We will have another surprise guest I will announce a little later.
wWSpades will be joining Adam and Tyler Rosen (co-presidents of TESPA) on tomorrow's Climbing The Ladder. Got some great topics lined up for them. It's a later show (6pm PST) so mark it down.
Big thanks to Rosen Bros and wWSpades for an awesome show! Ill have the VOD and podcast up shortly. Gotta watch/listen to them if you missed it. Really good stuff!
On May 09 2012 04:55 LingBlingMuta wrote: Very good potential for a good new show here.
You guys REALLLY need to bring your production value up.
Video isn't all that big of an issue (yes it is still pretty bad) but my main issue is the sound quality is also very bad.
If you can work on the quality Im sure you can one day be a staple.
Thanks for the feedback. We usually don't have those technical issues. Unfortunately I had to do the show from out of town and the hotel connex was causing the sound choppiness. ;(
I know that this is probobly something known, and since I have only now access to 1-5 it might be fixed, but john clark's audio is so extremely tiny compared to everyone else that I think the next step would be doing something about that. It is honestly the most bothersome part about it. If you found a way to make people's audio around the same level, and quality just good enough that alone would be a large next step in finding out how to make such a show great!
Also good job and good luck so far. I hope this goes on to talk about interesting information about esports.
On May 19 2012 03:52 lloydp wrote: I know that this is probobly something known, and since I have only now access to 1-5 it might be fixed, but john clark's audio is so extremely tiny compared to everyone else that I think the next step would be doing something about that. It is honestly the most bothersome part about it. If you found a way to make people's audio around the same level, and quality just good enough that alone would be a large next step in finding out how to make such a show great!
Also good job and good luck so far. I hope this goes on to talk about interesting information about esports.
Even in the last episode (ep 5)? We specifically made a change this last episode and I think his level is pretty similar to the rest of ours when watching the VOD. But thanks for the feedback.
I'm interested in this show, I've only just come across it.I'm always on the look out for good new esports content to listen tip.I'm concerned tho that there are no mp3 links after the 3rd show.i haven't got time to watch twitch vods and was wondering if you have decided to stop doing mp3s all together or you just fell behind.live on 3 Is the only show i watch on vods, and even then never have time to finish watching.good luck and hopefully ican listen in the future.
On May 23 2012 01:12 Dustus wrote: I'm interested in this show, I've only just come across it.I'm always on the look out for good new esports content to listen tip.I'm concerned tho that there are no mp3 links after the 3rd show.i haven't got time to watch twitch vods and was wondering if you have decided to stop doing mp3s all together or you just fell behind.live on 3 Is the only show i watch on vods, and even then never have time to finish watching.good luck and hopefully ican listen in the future.
Hi dustus, I am planning on uploading the Podcasts. Just fell behind so expect to see them soon.
Ep. 7 with David Ting (General Manager of IPL) and ROOTRotterdam tomorrow at 3:30pm EST. This is gonna be a good one!
Also we have a Tt eSPORTS Theron mouse giveaway at the end of the show. To enter, subscribe to youtube.com/chanmanv . Huge thanks to Tt eSPORTS for providing this for viewers.
Tuesday's show we have Jason "Moge" Tugman (founder of Iheartesports.com) and Jerry Prochazka (Owner of vVv). These guys are really great and have a ton of experience in eSports so it'll be a fun show.
damn dude. I don't understand why you don't have more viewership / popularity, since you very clearly deserve it. Keep up the good work and I'm sure good things will come your way!
VOD is up from today's episode with Jason Tugman and Jerry Prochazka. WATCH THIS EPISODE if you missed it! So much good eSports biz advice give by Jason and Jerry.
Next Tuesday 3:30pm EST we have Brent Ruiz (Founder/President of ESFI) and James "Kennigit" Lampkin (TeamLiquid Marketing Manager) on as guests to discuss various issues in running community websites/portals. Plus, John Clark will be co-hosting from SoCal LAN so there maybe various players dropping by the show. Going to be a fun time!
Duran "XerisLIGHT" Parsi (Founder CEO Team LIGHT and Head admin for NASL/CSL) and Rachel "Seltzer" Quirico (CSN eSports journalist and event host) on as guests this week. We will dig into running events/teams and issues you run into as an eSports journalist.
Michal "Carmac" Blicharz (ESL Product Manager for Intel Extreme Masters) and Garrett "GWIN" Pretchel (Caster) on next week to talk about challenges organizing IEM Kiev and struggles/experiences of being an up and coming caster. Ill update with topics as we get closer.
the good thing is that Carmac cant 'tackle' me while on skype! This should be interesting.. as I plan to ask him about his feeling on Double Elimination, Group play and MLG's extended series!
Show starting up in a couple hours. Here are the topics:
- Introductions - Misconceptions - What's it like being an up and coming caster? - What does it take to get your name known as a caster? - Skills you train to improve being a caster - GESL - discussion on all the issues - Career History in eSports - Challenges and experiences since joining ESL - IEM 2012 .. How will it be better than the previous ones? - Europe eSports scene vs NA eSports Scene - Brainstorming - Q&A
Thanks to all of those that tuned in.. and for those that did not.. I assure you that you missed a good one. Gwin was on fire and Carmac was... well he was just Carmac!
We have Patrick "Chobopeon" O'Neill on our next show tomorrow. We'll be going over lots of topics pertaining to his experiences in being a journalist in the eSports industry and the challenges he has faced. Come join us!
Elroy Pinto (General Manager of Fnatic) and Kevin "CatzPajama" Knocke will be guests the next couple weeks. Should be great getting their take on everything.
Elroy Pinto (Fnatic GM) and Jeff "xSixMaximusBlack" Johnston on CTL tomorrow 4pm EDT/EST. Going to talk about team management challenges at Fnatic and everything involved with being an eSports personality in our industry.
On July 24 2012 06:10 ChanmanV wrote: Elroy Pinto (Fnatic GM) and Jeff "xSixMaximusBlack" Johnston on CTL tomorrow 4pm EDT/EST. Going to talk about team management challenges at Fnatic and everything involved with being an eSports personality in our industry.
Glad to see the show coming back to a (hopefully) regular schedule again! Should be interesting to hear from Maximus as I don't follow him too closely. Can't wait to tune in tomorrow, looking forward to the show as always.
VOD from today's show where we introduced Mark Ferraz as a co-host and guests Kevin Knocke and Ben "FishStix" Goldhaber is up. The guys were really insightful and had some really good discussions so check it out if you missed it!
Got Flo "QuanticFlo" Yao and Sue "Smix" Lee on the show tonight 11pm EDT. They'll be some great discussions about life in the Quantic house, female pro gaming, and life as one of the go to Korean translators for all the big SC2 events.
Frank Fields (IPL Operations Manager, Former co-founder Team Reign) and James "mouzKaelaris" Carroll (ESL caster) on the show tomorrow at the regular time 4pm EDT / 10pm CET. Come join us for some fun discussions!
* Introductions * Misconceptions in the industry * James' Quick eSports History * Why join mouz when you are working at a big organization already? * Pros and Cons of working for a bigger organization like ESL * Key moments of your career to this point. Advice you'd give to up and coming casters? * What is your next goal? * Frank's Quick eSports History * Lessons learned from Team Reign experience * Roles and responsibilities at IPL * IPL Face Off - Preparing and Running the event * Brainstorming * Q&A * Shoutouts
Quantic.SaSe and GoSu.Doa on tonight's Climbing The Ladder #17 @11pm EDT. Here's the agenda/topic list:
- IEM Event - Misconceptions - SaSe's history in eSports - Challenges of switching games as a pro player - Desire to play & cast in Korea - Lifestyle & Practice in Korea - Experiences casting at GOMTV/IPL - Decision to join It's GoSu - Promotion of casters and players at events - Brainstorming - Viewer Q&A
Tuesday's show will be our first one that isn't completely SC2 centric. We will have Mike "Hawkeye" Chapman (eSports Manager at Curse Gaming) and Randall "Wombat" Fitzgerald (LoL Caster) on to discuss various topics pertaining to he LoL community. Wombat was actively in the SC2 community for a long time so we'll be going over some of the key differences he sees between the industries/communities.
Zhang Jinga (owner of infinitySeven, professional photographer) will be joining aTn.Cloud (Professional Starcraft 2 player) for this tuesdays's show. Going to be great having these 2 on to share their perspectives.
JP McDaniel (Caster/Content Producer) and Jason Bass (Co-Owner/COO of compLexity Gaming) will be on this tuesday at 4pm EDT. Going to be awesome chatting and brain storming with these guys!
Very insightful episode, similar to The Executives in terms of content. It seems that the financial situation of the scene is surprisingly bad actually, a few outliers notwithstanding.
I'm also curious whether there's any difference between the European and the US scene, in terms of organizational structure/financial situation of teams, etc. Maybe you can get a representative from that scene on some time.
I’d say the EU scene has more options when it comes to low cost of living for team houses. I’m not sure about the flight costs but the tournaments in EU seem to offer enough so that there isn’t such pressure to compete in America. It’s only fair to mention WCS as a support to various regions of the world. Disregarding its imperfections, WCS has a really good prize money distribution, as opposed to the Dota 2 International.
The idea of teams competing for sponsors is very interesting. Right now most teams, tournaments and leagues are trying to operate on their own. It would require all of them to pool their sponsors so that they could create a league where participation is paid for and the prize money is well distributed. This should be possible in Korea but I get the feeling that GSL isn’t rewarding the teams enough, rather just the top place finishers. And what is this Code B anyway? I can’t find any information about it.
Considering monetisation, I think of it as the change from a community to an industry. I’m not even sure if it’s a good idea to grow job opportunities in entertainment sector because the global economy isn’t in a good shape. I don’t know much about the skill sets and qualifications of the members of our community (for example I myself don’t have much to offer as my focus is the English language) but it would be beneficial for esports if most people settled for a “regular” job and then spent money on esports in order to increase the cash flow.
On a side note, EG has developed a reputation as being rich which inflates the value of players such as Stephano or HuK. It might be better to pay more people a reasonable amount of money rather than a few super stars but I must admit EG is doing a lot for the community anyway – the tournaments are the next logical step for such organisation.
all good points! All the talk seems to be able unifying and monetizing so it should be interesting to see what everything looks like in the next 6 months.
dizzy, Michael O'Dell (DignitasOdee) is tentatively scheduled to be on Tuesday so that is definitely one thing we will be talking about.
Michael "dignitasODEE" O'Dell and Paul "Redeye" Chaloner on the show today 4pm EDT! We'll be talking about the eSports Congress this past weekend and more. Come join the discussion!
Really good couple weeks coming up. Next week we got brand new Axiom Gaming team owner Genna Bain! The following week we have Chris Mitchell from Razer.
nestea and MVP not even on a salary? rofl, the whole korean team environment sounds fucked, good practice environment I guess but why win when they take most of your winnings and you get no salary? crazy
On October 10 2012 18:43 Zax19 wrote: Again, great show! It would be nice if you could get the Executives’ hosts on for some no fluff roundtable discussion.
ODEE and Chobopeon have been on the show before. Check out the OP or youtube.com/chanmanv to find those episodes.
I think it was less about individuals as personalities being negative.. and more about the negative feeling of where things are headed.. whats happening currently.. so on.
Richard Lewis, Editor in Chief of Cadred.org, on the show Tuesday. We'll be talking about the current state of journalism in eSports. 4pm EDT / 10pm CET don't miss it!
On November 08 2012 07:10 MistaBlue wrote: Really love the show! Keep up the great work! I feel whiny for asking but...any word on an RSS Feed/Podcast?
Thanks! Haven't gotten a chance to look at it yet. Anyone know how easy it is to setup now that we have links to the mp3s?
We'll be doing a quick Climbing The Ladder - Post Tourney Wrapup show at the end of Lone Star Clash 2 on their stream. Come check it out in a couple hours.
On November 20 2012 15:57 Graphix wrote: Awesome job you are doing Chanman! keep up the good work! Last weeks pro corner was really cool with LzGaMeR and Hawk.
Great news everyone! I am thrilled to announce that Paul "RedEye" Chaloner will be joining as a co-host for Climbing The Ladder. Paul's long history in e-Sports mixed with his knowledge of media and social marketing will bring an amazing element to the show. His experience as a caster/interviewer/host/etc. will also bring a great perspective in our weekly discussions with guests. But best of all he's got an accent .. the ultimate formula for success!
His first show as an official co-host will be this Tuesday when we have guest Robert Ohlen (CEO Dreamhack). Going to be some great times!
Saw your shoutout on NASL and Redeye's twitter. This stuff looks great! Thank you very much for the MP3 downloads. I'm hoping to do something similar for Firefall!
On December 09 2012 18:49 Ner0 wrote: Saw your shoutout on NASL and Redeye's twitter. This stuff looks great! Thank you very much for the MP3 downloads. I'm hoping to do something similar for Firefall!
Not a problem .. Can't wait to see your FF version when it comes out!
Fun episode as always, I'm just watching the VOD. I like Redeye but I hope he scales back a bit as the show progresses because he's fighting for air time too much. But I guess it's also because all of the people want to say something so it's a bit hectic.
You can subscribe to chanmanv.blogspot.com and start getting the audio versions regularly. Im going to figure out the best way to post the past shows for those who want to catch up via the audio versions.
I'm sorry, I couldn't think of a better way of sneaking in a joke about Adebisi's pronunciation. The show was great as always, Adebisi is a great example of someone famous in the scene who is actually good at what he does .
Tumba is an awesome guy and has done some amazing stuff in the eSports world. I've known Toby for a long time and there's nobody else like him in the industry.
Having some troubles exporting the video from TB's channel. Once we I get it I will post the VOD. You can find/subscribe to the audio version in the mean time here:
Been listening a lot lately and i like the show. I wanna point out that sometimes you skip explaining what happened and just go straight into the discussion. Keep the mp3s flowing^^
On January 19 2013 02:22 GornWood wrote: Hey just wanted to say that I like the show but you should fix the dates in the OP because the episodes of january were in 2013
I recently discovered your show... I think it's GREAT. I love the business / in depth perspective.
Just a note though : I don't know if it's like this for every episode, but your sound quality (for your own mic) is bad. It's quite annoying =/ Anyway please keep it up, I m going to watch every show from now on !
Next episode we're back on our regular Tuesday 4pm EST slot. Our guest will be Kevin Lin (Chief Operating Officer of Twitch.TV) on to continue some of the our discussion this past episode on advertising revenue.
I've been listening to Data Mined Out and The Executives, I was completely unaware this was a similar podcast... Man I've got quite a bit of catching up to do.
eSports photographers Zhang "zemotion" Jingna, Kevin "Silverfire" Change, Helena Kristiansson, and Carlton Beener on the show tomorrow to talk about the ups and downs of eSports photography. They are responsible for some of the most iconic pics we know in this community so lots of goodness tomorrow.
Question to the guests: Please discuss the issue of copyright in eSports in general, and specifically how do you feel it is being handled on Liquipedia
On February 27 2013 04:39 Noam wrote: Question to the guests: Please discuss the issue of copyright in eSports in general, and specifically how do you feel it is being handled on Liquipedia
I don't quite understand what you mean there. What are the copyright issues with Liquipedia?
Is there a feed you can subscribe to for the audio files? I'd like to listen to the shows on my smartphone and use my podcatcher instead of downloading the files for the show every time a new one comes out :/
I just listened to the carmac show. interesting, lots of stuff i disagreed with
When carmac goes on a rant about "the undisputed best sc2 player" and implies that a common ranking between mlg, dreamhack and iem would crown such a person......You really should step in and say that sounds very fishy. First of all it's very unlikely to be any "undisputed best sc2 player" regardless. Second a ranking without korean tournaments will determine this? hah. Made me take you less serious when you didnt object to this idea to be honest.
This idea that the tournaments need to be similar also strikes me as plain silly. No need for that whatsoever. If they wanna co-ordinate things they should start with map pool, which they have i think. Format.. is obviously gonna be different. iem last time was what? 5 days of limited opening hours. mlg is 3 really long days. etc. I like that it's different. New people have harder stuff to figure out than a few formats.
probably tons of other stuff too, remember being agitated but ive been negative enough. Love the show, usually Also one of the few shows who manages to post mp3s yourselves in a timely fashion. Keep it up^^
On March 25 2013 16:37 cYaN wrote: I just listened to the carmac show. interesting, lots of stuff i disagreed with
When carmac goes on a rant about "the undisputed best sc2 player" and implies that a common ranking between mlg, dreamhack and iem would crown such a person......You really should step in and say that sounds very fishy. First of all it's very unlikely to be any "undisputed best sc2 player" regardless. Second a ranking without korean tournaments will determine this? hah. Made me take you less serious when you didnt object to this idea to be honest.
This idea that the tournaments need to be similar also strikes me as plain silly. No need for that whatsoever. If they wanna co-ordinate things they should start with map pool, which they have i think. Format.. is obviously gonna be different. iem last time was what? 5 days of limited opening hours. mlg is 3 really long days. etc. I like that it's different. New people have harder stuff to figure out than a few formats.
probably tons of other stuff too, remember being agitated but ive been negative enough. Love the show, usually Also one of the few shows who manages to post mp3s yourselves in a timely fashion. Keep it up^^
1 year anniversary show with our guest SirScoots tomorrow 5pm EST. Come reminisce a little bit about the last year of CTL and jump in on some of our discussion topics.
The long awaited map making community episode is today! We have guests Jesse "Plexa" Hart (from TL.net), Alec "TimeTwister" Cooper (ESV), and John "SigmaFiE" Emerson (DreamForge). Going talk about the impact of maps on SC2, challenges they are facing right now getting their maps seen and played, and what the future holds for map makers.
Im currently listening to the map making episode...... and it's horrific. I'm usually a fan of the show, but i really think you should go back and listen to this yourself and think about what went wrong.
A lot of talking over each other. And it seems everyone is arguing from different point of views without seeing the others pov. Soundlevels were very different. Frankly trying to argue that the mapmakers should get their maps into the smaller tournaments and this will start things up (Richard Lewis basically says this) is silly and imo shows that he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. At most it will get the mapmaker some playtesting on the map. Players don't want to play on a brand new map that you don't know if you'll ever see again and viewers don't want to watch games of unprepared players as much.
Someone used wc3 as a shining example... because of dota. And no one said anything. As far as I know wc3 pretty much used the same few maps as competitive maps throughout the majority of it's life. twisted meadows and turtle rock etc. original blizzard maps.
Also very surprised there was no discussion about the seasons of the ladder being a problem. With WCS coming it it will be 3? season a year also on the ladder? Blizzard do not change maps mid season so assuming you get 1 new map from the mapmakers per season that's 3 a year? Would the mapmakers be happy with that?
at 1h10min into the show.... someone (plexa mostly) started to make sense and talk about relevant things. Prior to that... well... i want that time back. I would have liked much more talk about iCCup and MotW vs the sc2 current ladder. I view how iccup ran the ladder so closely related to korean pro maps/wcg/map makers outside of korea combined with motw as probably the best solution. Also if Blizzard stopped making maps that would probably help tbh.
"if everybody was onboard" seemed to be used a lot. What? Blizzard runs the show. If Blizzard decided should have been the phrase. I want to watch highlevel sc2 and then play on the maps myself. What do I watch? The major tournaments. WCS, DH etc. Where do I play? 95%+ ladder. Blizzard controls wcs and ladder. Everything else as well to a certain extent.
Sorry for ranting/being harsh, but i hope this is taken as actual constructive criticism to some extent at least. hastily written, so hopefully you can get something out of it.
On May 14 2013 00:18 cYaN wrote:Frankly trying to argue that the mapmakers should get their maps into the smaller tournaments and this will start things up (Richard Lewis basically says this) is silly and imo shows that he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
if you actually watch the show back that isn't a point I make. I say pretty much the opposite.
Sorry you didn't enjoy the show. I personally thought it was good and highlighted a very important area for the game's development. Each to their own I suppose.
On May 14 2013 00:18 cYaN wrote: Im currently listening to the map making episode...... and it's horrific. I'm usually a fan of the show, but i really think you should go back and listen to this yourself and think about what went wrong.
A lot of talking over each other. And it seems everyone is arguing from different point of views without seeing the others pov. Soundlevels were very different. Frankly trying to argue that the mapmakers should get their maps into the smaller tournaments and this will start things up (Richard Lewis basically says this) is silly and imo shows that he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. At most it will get the mapmaker some playtesting on the map. Players don't want to play on a brand new map that you don't know if you'll ever see again and viewers don't want to watch games of unprepared players as much.
Someone used wc3 as a shining example... because of dota. And no one said anything. As far as I know wc3 pretty much used the same few maps as competitive maps throughout the majority of it's life. twisted meadows and turtle rock etc. original blizzard maps.
Also very surprised there was no discussion about the seasons of the ladder being a problem. With WCS coming it it will be 3? season a year also on the ladder? Blizzard do not change maps mid season so assuming you get 1 new map from the mapmakers per season that's 3 a year? Would the mapmakers be happy with that?
at 1h10min into the show.... someone (plexa mostly) started to make sense and talk about relevant things. Prior to that... well... i want that time back. I would have liked much more talk about iCCup and MotW vs the sc2 current ladder. I view how iccup ran the ladder so closely related to korean pro maps/wcg/map makers outside of korea combined with motw as probably the best solution. Also if Blizzard stopped making maps that would probably help tbh.
"if everybody was onboard" seemed to be used a lot. What? Blizzard runs the show. If Blizzard decided should have been the phrase. I want to watch highlevel sc2 and then play on the maps myself. What do I watch? The major tournaments. WCS, DH etc. Where do I play? 95%+ ladder. Blizzard controls wcs and ladder. Everything else as well to a certain extent.
Sorry for ranting/being harsh, but i hope this is taken as actual constructive criticism to some extent at least. hastily written, so hopefully you can get something out of it.
PM me and I would be more than happy to have a non-hasty discussion about maps with you.
On May 14 2013 00:18 cYaN wrote: Im currently listening to the map making episode...... and it's horrific. I'm usually a fan of the show, but i really think you should go back and listen to this yourself and think about what went wrong.
A lot of talking over each other. And it seems everyone is arguing from different point of views without seeing the others pov. Soundlevels were very different. Frankly trying to argue that the mapmakers should get their maps into the smaller tournaments and this will start things up (Richard Lewis basically says this) is silly and imo shows that he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. At most it will get the mapmaker some playtesting on the map. Players don't want to play on a brand new map that you don't know if you'll ever see again and viewers don't want to watch games of unprepared players as much.
Someone used wc3 as a shining example... because of dota. And no one said anything. As far as I know wc3 pretty much used the same few maps as competitive maps throughout the majority of it's life. twisted meadows and turtle rock etc. original blizzard maps.
Also very surprised there was no discussion about the seasons of the ladder being a problem. With WCS coming it it will be 3? season a year also on the ladder? Blizzard do not change maps mid season so assuming you get 1 new map from the mapmakers per season that's 3 a year? Would the mapmakers be happy with that?
at 1h10min into the show.... someone (plexa mostly) started to make sense and talk about relevant things. Prior to that... well... i want that time back. I would have liked much more talk about iCCup and MotW vs the sc2 current ladder. I view how iccup ran the ladder so closely related to korean pro maps/wcg/map makers outside of korea combined with motw as probably the best solution. Also if Blizzard stopped making maps that would probably help tbh.
"if everybody was onboard" seemed to be used a lot. What? Blizzard runs the show. If Blizzard decided should have been the phrase. I want to watch highlevel sc2 and then play on the maps myself. What do I watch? The major tournaments. WCS, DH etc. Where do I play? 95%+ ladder. Blizzard controls wcs and ladder. Everything else as well to a certain extent.
Sorry for ranting/being harsh, but i hope this is taken as actual constructive criticism to some extent at least. hastily written, so hopefully you can get something out of it.
That's too bad you didn't enjoy the episode because I thought the discussion was quite productive. Im happy to address some of these things you mentioned though.
Talking over each other is going to happen when you have 6 people with a lot of thoughts and ideas that we have to get out in 2 hours and I didn't mind the dynamic in that regard. Sound levels I agree were not optimal and it had mostly to do with me barely making back in time for the show and us not having time for an adequate sound check so that was definitely on me.
As for addressing everything else generally, yes Blizzard holds the solutions to everything that map makers need. But the reality is these things will not happen because Blizzard has other things prioritized that they are focused on and in some ways they don't want to be involved in this map maker/tourney organizer dynamic. So you can either just wait around and hope Blizzard one day fixes everything for everybody, or you can do more incremental things as a map maker (ie having your map player in smaller tourneys for play testing and future data points, getting exposure as a map maker, etc.) and proactively provide data that will help in this endeavor. The map makers are trying all kinds of things right now .. no doubt. They just need some support from the community in the form of demand and systematic ways of getting their maps exposure (ie TLMC).
I know you're a long time fan of the show so I know you mean well with all the the feedback and constructive criticism so I appreciate that.
we had one today ... just was late getting on the calendar today sorry Unfiltered is back next week. We had a scheduling mix up this week so was a bit unexpected not having it this week.
Massive guest list for this bumper edition of the show:
Hosts: ChanmanV, John Clark, Richard Lewis Guest: Michal "Carmac" Blicharz (ESL), Robert Ohlen (Dreamhack), Scott "SirScoots" Smith (SSNN), Cristian "Trance" Tamas (GD Studios), and Elliot Cuite (NASL) Show Time: 15:00 EST / 21:00 CEST
Timestamps:
3:17 MLG Status of Anaheim for SC2 20:00 Enter Robert Ohlén 27:45 Difference NA vs EU Events 39:00 Enter Carmac 42:50 An In-Depth Look At WCS EU 1:12:08 Enter Scoots, Trance, Elliot - Studio Production 1:14:55 Thoughts on WCS EU Production 1:43:50 Technology Being Used 2:09:41 Guests Asking Each Other Questions 2:29:40 Importance of Audio 2:40:55 More Non-Sports Content 2:56:55 Wrapup and Shoutouts
Excellent episode! I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion about branding. One thing I would ask after the fact (could not catch the show live) would be about the portion where Dan talks about sticking with his handle as opposed to later switching it like many other people do. How would a person with a pre-existing brand or handle appropriately implement a change that accomplishes
1) Gaining new attention from new target audience(s)
and
2) Diminish any detrimental impact on current target audience or loss of business due to re-branding
Assume that core functions remain the same...
Also, thanks for the shoutout about my bridge map! :D
Carbot Animations, Temp0, and eSports Canada on todays episode. We'll be talking about the business of making SC2 related animations and music. Also we'll be getting the details behind Icy Cup (Canadian event similar to Homestory Cup).
David Kim is our guest on today's episode of Climbing The Ladder. EG.Suppy, XMG.ToD, ROOT.CatZ, and hopefully a terran player will also be joining me on the show today.
On August 16 2013 02:54 ChanmanV wrote: David Kim is our guest on today's episode of Climbing The Ladder. EG.Suppy, XMG.ToD, ROOT.CatZ, and hopefully a terran player will also be joining me on the show today.
Whaaaat?! That's so cool. I hope he will explain his thought process in regards to mech and Immortals, Archons, SH, Vipers etc.
I feel David Kim missed the big part of the problem with the MSC in PvT. Atm, terran players are forced into certain builds (either 1-1-1 drop or faster expo, both builds go into 10 minute 3 rax medivac pressure.), while protoss players have a TON of viable builds (blink all in, 6gate all in, robo all in, colossus all in, fast storm, 1 col into storm, colossus into third, phoenix colossus etc).
This makes the terran player almost never able to dictate the matchup, and makes it boring. How important is it for the game to be fun as well?
The MCore is there because PvP has no defenders advantage otherwise. It's a crutch to fix PvP unfortunately because of how Protoss works in early game.
I really feel like Blizzard being so shy to change anything major will be a bad thing when we look back at it in a few years. :/ I also feel like the " We talk to players, we talk to mapmakers, etc " is such a fluke. Everytime someone get asked if they are in relation with Blizzard staff it's never the case.
I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote: I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote: I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
I feel like he's not clueless, he's just scared to do anything. They will keep saying " Wait for a expansion " for majors changes, but once they are doing an expansion, they fear to fuck up everything so they don't do it.
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote: I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote: I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
I feel like he's not clueless, he's just scared to do anything. They will keep saying " Wait for a expansion " for majors changes, but once they are doing an expansion, they fear to fuck up everything so they don't do it.
If Forcefields are in SC3, I'll begin investing in a tire iron company.
The thing is that we must pretty much put the pressure on now, because the changes many of us want will probably take a long time to develop and must happen early on in the development of legacy of the void. It isn't something you just add during a beta.
엔알랴준 @Engine141 16m @DJHelium That's true. He and I are kind of close : )
Engine about David Kim.
For those who don't remember, Engine is the guy who dissected Mvp's mech build from IEM live on twitter. He's like Artosis, Apollo combined, times three.
It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.
On August 16 2013 05:42 Noocta wrote: I really feel like Blizzard being so shy to change anything major will be a bad thing when we look back at it in a few years. :/ I also feel like the " We talk to players, we talk to mapmakers, etc " is such a fluke. Everytime someone get asked if they are in relation with Blizzard staff it's never the case.
I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.
Really liked this show, good job from everyone involved!
Still a bit sad about David Kim's answers, but it's sort of what I expected. Would've liked to hear about what he thinks of the limited amount of TvP openers atm.
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote: It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote: I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.
No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.
Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote: It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote: It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.
The issue with talking with pro players when it comes to design and redesign is that many of them want so little changes as possible because more changes means a lot more time needed to be dedicated to figure stuff out.
However I think it is necessary to change how protoss works, how the economy pretty much caps out on 3 bases, and how units clump up, all need to be addressed if we want SC 2 to have the same longevity as BW.
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote: I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.
No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.
Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.
I always thought it would be kinda cool to have a unit/units that only can be produced in gateways.
On August 16 2013 06:13 SarcasmMonster wrote: So what is everyone's final impression of the show? Will we see big changes in LOTV?
Not unless we pressure Blizzard for them. They are so afraid to destroy the balance that they have accomplished. If we don't ask for major changes we will just get another HotS type of expansion. While that is nice it isn't what this game needs to become truly great.
On August 16 2013 06:02 KingofGods wrote: It's so appropriate how David Kim mentioned some high level players don't really understand analysis on this very show with these guests. Suppy sounds like he has no idea how a game should work.
o.O why
Damn, ouch
I know me sad ;(
Aw, don't be sad
I don't think KingofGods has any idea what he is talking about
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote: I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
DK just balance what they give him. Changing forcefield isn't about balance but design. Anyway I would be for some organized pressure to change protoss in LotV. I don't care if aplha/beta will take year or more.
On August 16 2013 05:46 Eury wrote: I think we need to start a campaign now really screaming for some serious redesign of Protoss if we want anything to happen with force field. David Kim is completely clueless to this issue.
DK just balance what they give him. Changing forcefield isn't about balance but design. Anyway I would be for some organized pressure to change protoss in LotV. I don't care if aplha/beta will take year or more.
On August 16 2013 06:17 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Skill-shot abduct sounds awesome, a shame dkim wasn't too fond of it.
To be honest, it would make it garbage because of how easy it would be to put low tech units in the way of it.
Well still better than abducting nothing. Seeker missile is dodgeable which is cool, it creates 5 sec of tension because you don't know if the targetted unit will escape the missile range or not. I'm sure there is a way to make abduct more enjoyable and skillfull than what it is.
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote: I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.
No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.
Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.
A proper cost:risk ratio for having map wide instant mobility wouldn't "break" Protoss. It would make the race substantially better by giving Gateways *AND* Warpgates usage, because they would both have strength and weaknesses.
However I think the best solution is to remove Warpgate entirely and re-do Protoss properly.
On August 16 2013 06:06 juicyjames wrote: I've always wondered if you could balance Gateways vs Warp Gates by having a mechanic where units warped in by Warp Gate start with less shields (maybe depending on how far away it is from a Nexus?). That way GW means slower production yet starts with full shields while WG is faster production yet starts with less shields.
No, that would basically ruin Protoss. Their attacks would either be weaker or units would have to wait longer before engaging, and their defence would have the same issues.
Something like that would need several changes to account for the differences.
A proper cost:risk ratio for having map wide instant mobility wouldn't "break" Protoss. It would make the race substantially better by giving Gateways *AND* Warpgates usage, because they would both have strength and weaknesses.
However I think the best solution is to remove Warpgate entirely and re-do Protoss properly.
As I said, it would require multiple changes to gateway units to make it remotely workable. As much as people like to complain, the game is at a fairly good balance point. A drastic change like "Reinforcements lose 100 shields" or "Reinforcements must wait 30 seconds before they can attack at full health" is enough to completely break matchups.
On August 16 2013 06:10 Eury wrote:However I think it is necessary to change how protoss works, how the economy pretty much caps out on 3 bases, and how units clump up, all need to be addressed if we want SC 2 to have the same longevity as BW.
It is funny how people can state things like that with such confidence. You predicted the future of Starcraft, analyzed the flaws and, outstandingly, even already has a solution.
On August 16 2013 06:10 Eury wrote:However I think it is necessary to change how protoss works, how the economy pretty much caps out on 3 bases, and how units clump up, all need to be addressed if we want SC 2 to have the same longevity as BW.
It is funny how people can state things like that with such confidence. You predicted the future of Starcraft, analyzed the flaws and, outstandingly, even already has a solution.
Impressive work.
Ehh, those things have been discussed/suggested like since 6 months after release of WoL. That was basically a TLDR of everything discussed for the last 3 years.
I just hope I don't have to watch MMM + some additional letter in every Terran game in LoTV.
I don't know what they should do but the game needs more diversity in terms of strategy. There is an occasional hero Terran that tries mech but it's getting boring to see the tripple M in each and every matchup.
About time to realize SC2 will never be as good as BW. The main issue has always been Protoss design (along with some global flaws such as the game being too fast-paced and UI-assisted), everyone's been discussing it ever since the release of WoL and close to no real change has been adopted. This isn't going to happen, we won't get rid of forcefields, colossi, of the appalling weakness of gate units and of the inner retardation of the warp-in mechanics. Don't get me wrong, SC2's fine, it's just not as good as it should be. The (lowering) viewer count serves as testimony.
I cannot believe nobody asked him about the economy. Things like Lalush's post here on TL on the topic, Kespa trying to do something about it (remember that crazy map they were testing for SPL with allgold/less harvesters), trying to encourage more expanding instead of capping at 3 mining bases, etc... I feel like that's the most important thing to actually (re)design and (re)balance in LotV and nobody even asked him
Listening to the latest episode atm and as a parent myself I'm enjoying it. It's nice hearing input from other parents concerning their kids and online games, because trying to handle my kids playing with other people can be troublesome to say the least. Just all the crap that they get exposed to. As an example my kid got cussed out by some RPers in WoW cause he wasn't playing along properly with their skit, or stumbling upon people cybering in the goldshire inn. The first team game he ever played in SC2 his partner cussed him out for sucking, and it's like god damn. How do you expose them to online games without all the shit that comes with it? It's rough.
Tomorrow's show (Tuesday) is at 4pm EDT/ 10pm CEST w/ guest Day[9] and Eric Burkhart to talk more about their endeavor into designing a strategy game and the upcoming plans for the upcoming After Hours Gaming League season.
Are guest quetitions allowed? If so, could you please ask Kim Phan if he is able to talk about the current ladder situation or if it is something blizzard is already investigating into?
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