EPTDevelopers Update : Heart of the Swarm - Page 91
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FlyingToilet
United States840 Posts
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
On April 20 2012 00:13 hugman wrote: Oh god, SC2 without Roaches, Colossi and Marauders. That would be something to behold. Lol so true. Thay basically introduced 3 horrible units | ||
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
On April 19 2012 17:36 Haze.884 wrote: I really want marauders and collosus to be gone at hots... those 2 units create really boring match ups -.- They should replace browder With mentzen. Sc2 sold 5 milion copies because of Bw legacy not because it is a good game. It is so ridicolous that colossi are a star rave unit, it is a bad copy of war of worlds franchise And marauders make me sick just watching Them Fire | ||
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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:54 dragonsuper wrote: Lol so true. Thay basically introduced 3 horrible units imho top5 actually consists of marauders, thors, broodlords, roaches, collosi. | ||
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Antimatterz
United States1010 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:08 razy wrote: imho top5 actually consists of marauders, thors, broodlords, roaches, collosi. Why broodlords? They are actually one of the better units imo, they create a more intense dynamic in the late game. The zerg has to constantly keep them spread out while preventing the other race from getting under them, while the other race has to backstab and snipe the zerg. | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On April 20 2012 21:45 KULA_u wrote: indeed. just like with the marauder, it was so terribly obvious that the roach was badly designed since the beginning of the beta. the roach should have been made closed to it's basic design idea: a unit that has a high regeneration rate. If this were the focus of the unit it would have been a much more interesting unit along the line of 50-75minerals, 25gas, 50-70HP, regen of ~2 HP/s (no bonus regen when burrowed), 1 supply, 0 armor, no armor type except biological, smaller size, burrow tier 1 tech, very slow tunneling possible as soon as burrow is researched, tunneling speed upgrade tier 2 tech (possibly also increasing normal movement speed), and maybe some kind of tier 3 upgrade like increased regeneration, resistance to spells (e.g. spells only do half of their effect) or something like that. I don't know what weapon it should have, as it shouldn't be to cloase to the sc/bw hydra, but I think a range of 2-3 with lower damage per shot or even melee with some damage over time would have been interesting. (something in that line of course, not exactly like this) but instead they made a cheap and boring unit that takes the tank role away from the ultralisk and completetly changed zerg design, by relegating the hydra to a slowmoving glass cannon and the ultra to an antio armored AoE finisher. If you want to see endless streams of Roaches die to 2/3 collosi than these changes would be great (even more than now that is though  ). | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:23 CruelZeratul wrote: If you want to see endless streams of Roaches die to 2/3 collosi than these changes would be great (even more than now that is though ).that is why the collossus shouldnt have been there to begin with, and maybe even widened the ramp slightly so that more roaches can get up. (To make up for their less tanky-ness) | ||
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:12 Antimatterz wrote: Why broodlords? They are actually one of the better units imo, they create a more intense dynamic in the late game. The zerg has to constantly keep them spread out while preventing the other race from getting under them, while the other race has to backstab and snipe the zerg. Because they're ridiculously good, for a race that's supposed to have the weakest units since they can reproduce the best. Just think about it...Broodlord/Infestor is the best late game comp...on the race that's supposed to have the weakest/least efficient units due to ability to reproduce units quickly. | ||
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
On April 22 2012 10:42 FlyingToilet wrote: The amount of 2 raxes in mlg spring arena is just getting ridiculous, i understand terrans and zergs want a purely bio matchup like in brood war but this is just getting silly... ...god damnit. I don't mind sc2 players saying that they prefer one game to another or anything like that, but when sc2 players say things which are so incredibly wrong about bw it really gets on my nerves. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
The Roach itself its fine, its a toned down BW Hydra. Why did they toned it down? Because it was too powerful against Zergs early on. Marauders are fine too as an anti armoured unit(Although IMO they could do without concusive shell\toned down concussive shell). The problem is that both of those units are too damn tanky for the damage they do(relative to stalkers Dragoons) as I have said before one thing that could help to deal with those units and take away from the deathball syndrome would be to BUFF splash damage like storm(I still think Colossi should brace or some kind of crap to get the extended range from Extended thermal lance or something) The thing in SC2 is that since you don't have power units that can own an unmicroed force by themeselves is that you want your army to be together because you can't hold more with your splash units. So you are always super vulnerable to counterattacks if you split your forces. In BW attacking up a ramp with 2 lurkers\HTs\Reavers\Siege Tanks was always a serious business that you had to be paying attenton to your army. In SC2 2 Siege tanks are a joke to break, same with unsupported Colossi and HTs(especially with the tanky Marauders and Roaches) so it doesn't make much sense to leave garrison units behind.In this regard bannelings and banneling mines are superbly designed. when bannelings are in play you can defeat a much larger force if you get some good hits. The issue here is not nerfing tanky units, its about buffing power units.With that I assure you guys we will see more small unit squads all over the place and battles taking over several screens. SC2 still has the potential, when you see the best games they are awesome, but the mediocre ones area shitfest that end in one battle. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On April 22 2012 10:42 FlyingToilet wrote: The amount of 2 raxes in mlg spring arena is just getting ridiculous, i understand terrans and zergs want a purely bio matchup like in brood war but this is just getting silly... 2rax is a valid opening and doesn't have to be an all in. The fact that 99% of the protoss players go FFE is much worse imho | ||
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Uhh Negative
United States1090 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:29 Scila wrote: Because they're ridiculously good, for a race that's supposed to have the weakest units since they can reproduce the best. Just think about it...Broodlord/Infestor is the best late game comp...on the race that's supposed to have the weakest/least efficient units due to ability to reproduce units quickly. The weakness though is the extremely limited mobility of the army. Brood lords are SLOOWW. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:29 Scila wrote: Because they're ridiculously good, for a race that's supposed to have the weakest units since they can reproduce the best. Just think about it...Broodlord/Infestor is the best late game comp...on the race that's supposed to have the weakest/least efficient units due to ability to reproduce units quickly. But they aren't. And it isn't. BL/infestor loses to so many different compositions that it's laughable. You can try it in the unit editor if you don't believe it. It's strong because it's the easiest to tech into, Terran can't switch from marine tank into anything starport related as easily as Zerg can switch into ultras --> BL --> ultras --> BL. Same can be said for Protoss. Not to mention that you can just drop everywhere since the composition is awful in non-ball format and is slow as hell, but that's besides the point. Besides, everything you said is balanced related, which is irrelevant. The BL isn't flawed from a design stand-point imo, which is why the unit is fine. You can always tone up/down things if necessary, but you can't fix a terrible mechanic without heavy changes/removal. | ||
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Ragados
30 Posts
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FlyingToilet
United States840 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:50 KeksX wrote: 2rax is a valid opening and doesn't have to be an all in. The fact that 99% of the protoss players go FFE is much worse imho wth, how am i wrong and not a bw player? and when did i say it was an all in? i just think its really boring to watch, its like the most volatile early pressure to watch imo... i just don't like seeing little groups of rines or scv's going back and forth it's just extremely tedious to me! sorry about having an opinion -_- And soulkey terran was like the only thing i liked about brood war, sure there is mech but soul key was like the heart of the tvz matchup and they should bring back heavy micro multitasking oriented builds... not some stutter stepping considered early pressure | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:08 razy wrote: imho top5 actually consists of marauders, thors, corruptor, roaches, collosi. fixed, corruptor is much worse trust me. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2830 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:29 Scila wrote: Because they're ridiculously good, for a race that's supposed to have the weakest units since they can reproduce the best. Just think about it...Broodlord/Infestor is the best late game comp...on the race that's supposed to have the weakest/least efficient units due to ability to reproduce units quickly. they're ridiculously expensive, and ridiculiously slow, with ridiculous counters if not protected percectly. The only way to maintain that comp is to sustain a great economy, and that's the whole show for t and p to prevent from the get-go anyhow. If you're pumping bl/infestor off 3-4 mining bases, then that should be your trap card...otherwise it isn't that strong. It's just the go-to comp, like any other go-to comp of stalker/colossus/ with ht or voidray or bio/mech. It's a lot easier to kill a queen than it is 2-3 barracks with add-ons. So the argument that they can prdouce larva quickly isn't a good argument, especially given the larva only functions at its best with an amazing economy which, again, is the focal point of the match-up from the beginning of the game. excited for hots | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10321 Posts
You have the marine and the marauder, they are like two opposites of each other but still bio units. I don't understand the hate with them. Though if Roaches and Colossi are gone/fixed/changed, there could be less Marauders. So I would blame a-move colossus and not-zergy-but-very-protoss-esque-and-a-move-once-again Roaches. Also how would you deal with Ultralisks without Marauders? Marines? No way... | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On April 23 2012 17:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Also how would you deal with Ultralisks without Marauders? Marines? No way... How did they deal with ultralisks in broodwars? there wasn't marauders back then. | ||
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