• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:50
CEST 02:50
KST 09:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Firefly do had match fixing RECLAIM YOUR SCAMMED CRYPTOCURRENCY WITH SLAYER CO Best Crypto Asset Recovery Service Providers CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22033 users

Developers Update : Heart of the Swarm - Page 92

Forum Index > SC2 General
1844 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 90 91 92 93 Next
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 09:15:13
April 23 2012 09:14 GMT
#1821
On April 23 2012 18:07 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 17:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:

Also how would you deal with Ultralisks without Marauders? Marines? No way...


How did they deal with ultralisks in broodwars?
there wasn't marauders back then.


But there was Irradiate.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10665 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 10:20:01
April 23 2012 10:19 GMT
#1822
On April 23 2012 18:07 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 17:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:

Also how would you deal with Ultralisks without Marauders? Marines? No way...


How did they deal with ultralisks in broodwars?
there wasn't marauders back then.


They didn't?
If Zerg would get a big Ultra force you as a Terra either had:
TONS of Tanks (+ Spidermines) to squash everything that even tried to approach you.
OR you died.

If you went pure Bio and they had a big Ultra/Ling force, you were dead. The trick was to keep the Ultralisk (and even more imporant Defiler!) count low, this was achieved by constantly irradiating Ultralisks/Defilers and trying to keep the Zergs Eco low(ish).
GeNeSiDe
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom354 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 15:30:57
April 23 2012 15:30 GMT
#1823
Yeah irradiate micro was the only thing holding back big swarms of ultras from stacking up late game.

Defiler plague/ultra/ling is the com of my nightmares.

BRING BACK IRRADIATE!
http://soundcloud.com/eastmanmusic Check out my latest sc2 song "Masters League!"
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
April 23 2012 20:54 GMT
#1824
sure irradiate with smartcast...
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10665 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 20:59:41
April 23 2012 20:58 GMT
#1825
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?
serge
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Russian Federation142 Posts
April 23 2012 21:15 GMT
#1826
On April 24 2012 00:30 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Yeah irradiate micro was the only thing holding back big swarms of ultras from stacking up late game.

Defiler plague/ultra/ling is the com of my nightmares.

BRING BACK IRRADIATE!

It will never happen. DBro already stated that they didn't want the raven to turn the game into trading energy for resources. (when HSM was nerfed)

Incidentally, that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. The ultra-long endurance matches with all bases mined out were so awesome in BW and they happened so rarely it was just sublime.

Exhibit B: Snipe.

"too good against zerg"
I am Malkovich.
Crow!
Profile Joined September 2011
United States150 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 21:26:46
April 23 2012 21:21 GMT
#1827
Thank God for a Protoss long range air unit that doesn't get crippled by all of the race's own late game spells.

Not sure how I feel about building based mass recall; that level of flexibility usually isn't good game design.

Boo @ Overseers staying. Is a DT ever doing enough damage to justify its cost in a non-pvp matchup too much to ask for?

That Oracle had better have low energy costs given its abilities seem to compete with the notably cheaper Phoenix and Overseer.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 21:25:06
April 23 2012 21:24 GMT
#1828
"extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher"
the moment they introduce some shit from C&C, i will seriously hate blizzard for forcing me to stop playing the game i've been playing for 10+ years.
"this isn't bw, qq elsewhere" THIS IS STARCRAFT!
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
April 23 2012 21:38 GMT
#1829
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,
Jasper-
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada184 Posts
April 23 2012 21:49 GMT
#1830
On April 24 2012 06:38 Garmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,

Smart cast wouldn't even affect it though if you haven't read anything = \
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
April 23 2012 21:50 GMT
#1831
On April 23 2012 18:14 CruelZeratul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 18:07 neoghaleon55 wrote:
On April 23 2012 17:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:

Also how would you deal with Ultralisks without Marauders? Marines? No way...


How did they deal with ultralisks in broodwars?
there wasn't marauders back then.


But there was Irradiate.


Terran would either Irradiate, or spam tanks. Remember Tanks did 70base dmg and 85 when full upgraded
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11340 Posts
April 23 2012 21:50 GMT
#1832
On April 24 2012 06:38 Garmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,

All the more reason to get rid of smart casting. Smart casting ruins all the cool spells.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 22:04:06
April 23 2012 22:03 GMT
#1833
If Terran gets irradiate Zerg needs full power dark swarm!
we could go on like that for a while though, BW had much more powerful spells than SC2, and the reason is that smartcasting and deathballing makes them too strong now.

To the couple people saying abduct won't be used or is useless or w/e. all I can say is "you're wrong"
a flock of mutas with a few vipers being swapped out to go eat some minerals from the opponent's next expansion when they are low energy, skirting the edge of your base/army and pulling anything exposed out from it to be instagibbed by the muta flock.
That, on top of abduct + NP, you essentially neural from the entire safety of your army.
Hopefully swarm hosts will be able to play their role of a push delayer allowing that muta harass to work without getting your base overrun, also with cloaked units being an issue it will force the use of observers+ravens, that can also be abducted and sniped.

I guess this all depends on how cost efficient the viper is though, it could just turn into another queen from BW, where everyone agrees the abilities are pretty good in theory, but it never sees use due to cost and micro demands.
Diavlo
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium2915 Posts
April 23 2012 22:04 GMT
#1834
On April 24 2012 06:50 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 06:38 Garmer wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,

All the more reason to get rid of smart casting. Smart casting ruins all the cool spells.

But that would be too much like broodwar. And remember, we don't want a second broodwar.

Oh Wait...
"I don't know how many years on this Earth I got left. I'm gonna get real weird with it."
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 22:14:05
April 23 2012 22:09 GMT
#1835
I don't like Irradiate, it's actually the reason I prefer TvP over TvZ in Brood War. Having an impervious cloud of spell casters that one-shot all your most important units is so dumb. It's not even like selecting one vessel and irradiating an ultralisk takes real skill, it's not like psi storm without smart cast.

That said, at least it was, like, notable design - for want of a better phrase. Dark Swarm was such a cool spell in Brood War, yet would any terran really care if PDD (its spiritual successor) was removed? And something like the seeker missile is almost along the lines of the corruption spell, where it's more of a buff/debuff than anything else. I don't like the raven at all, it's such failed design. Everything cool about it is nerfed beyond any usefulness to just become a battle support caster, instead of a pivotal unit used to hold off attacks and defend key locations / assault defended bases. (like the defiler)
I do realize they wanted to do something cool with seeker missile, where you had to identify the targeted unit and split it from the rest of the group, but I've literally never seen a pro player bother with this. They usually just run their entire force back, because late-game battles are too hectic and there isn't enough time to react, especially since the raven casts from range 6, so it will be pretty close-by already.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10665 Posts
April 23 2012 22:22 GMT
#1836
On April 24 2012 06:38 Garmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,


I don't see how exactly to be honest.. Or you could just add a cooldown to it of ~1-2 seconds to not allow "spamcasting" from a single vessel/raven whatever.
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11047 Posts
April 23 2012 22:44 GMT
#1837
On April 24 2012 06:50 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 06:38 Garmer wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,

All the more reason to get rid of smart casting. Smart casting ruins all the cool spells.


At the same time, the lower level of mechanics generally needed to do the other things in the game mean that the player will have more... er free time/ attention to dedicate to using their spell caster well. The buff necessary to make spell casters worthwhile will conflict with the lower bar needed to magic carpet well.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1835 Posts
April 23 2012 22:55 GMT
#1838
On April 24 2012 06:24 jinorazi wrote:
"extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher"
the moment they introduce some shit from C&C, i will seriously hate blizzard for forcing me to stop playing the game i've been playing for 10+ years.
"this isn't bw, qq elsewhere" THIS IS STARCRAFT!


They already did.

Changelings --> Spies from Red Alert 1 and 2 (change to basic infantry from enemy faction)

Void Ray --> So freaking similar to the Gattling Gun (Yuri's Revenge)

I'm tired right now but I'm sure there's more that I really just don't care to think of.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11340 Posts
April 23 2012 23:04 GMT
#1839
On April 24 2012 07:44 Sabu113 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 06:50 Falling wrote:
On April 24 2012 06:38 Garmer wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:58 Velr wrote:
On April 24 2012 05:54 Garmer wrote:
sure irradiate with smartcast...


That wouldn't even matter that much in the case of Irradiate?
It's a spell you want to cast on very specific unit and not waste on tons of them (normally)?


but with smart cast it's becomes overpowered,

All the more reason to get rid of smart casting. Smart casting ruins all the cool spells.


At the same time, the lower level of mechanics generally needed to do the other things in the game mean that the player will have more... er free time/ attention to dedicate to using their spell caster well. The buff necessary to make spell casters worthwhile will conflict with the lower bar needed to magic carpet well.


I actually really like how you worded that You free up time using casters so you can devote more time using casters. That's exactly my point. There's a lot of things that legitimately free up the player to do more things, but better spell casting is one of those 'more things' you should have more time to do. Increase the difficulty of the spell and you can increase the power of the spell. There's less of them, but they're more significant and a greater 'wow' factor. But if you're fast enough, you can throw down an insane amount which just amplifies the 'wow' factor because it is so powerful and requires so much skill. And at the low levels hard but powerful spells are still fun because powerful spells are awesome.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
DoDonPachi
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada69 Posts
April 23 2012 23:20 GMT
#1840
On April 24 2012 07:55 GoShox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 06:24 jinorazi wrote:
"extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher"
the moment they introduce some shit from C&C, i will seriously hate blizzard for forcing me to stop playing the game i've been playing for 10+ years.
"this isn't bw, qq elsewhere" THIS IS STARCRAFT!


They already did.

Changelings --> Spies from Red Alert 1 and 2 (change to basic infantry from enemy faction)

Void Ray --> So freaking similar to the Gattling Gun (Yuri's Revenge)

I'm tired right now but I'm sure there's more that I really just don't care to think of.


Don't forget that the Reaper is the Rocketer in RA2. Same purpose, same weak health, but it fly instead of jumping wall because it's a 2D game

The Harrier ( the aircraft) is basicly a Banshee

The Neural Parasit is the spiritual sucessor of the Yuri clone.

And the battle fortress can be compare as a immortal
i'll schroumpfs you until you GG
Prev 1 90 91 92 93 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC #10: SC Evolution
CranKy Ducklings106
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft375
UpATreeSC 113
Nina 109
Livibee 73
-ZergGirl 41
Ketroc 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 933
Artosis 662
yabsab 15
Icarus 4
NaDa 2
Dota 2
monkeys_forever431
NeuroSwarm60
Counter-Strike
fl0m5693
Stewie2K602
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King61
Other Games
summit1g9846
shahzam1487
JimRising 214
Maynarde113
RuFF_SC215
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick805
BasetradeTV84
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta19
• Berry_CruncH18
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki31
• RayReign 29
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5434
Other Games
• Scarra1120
• imaqtpie795
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 10m
WardiTV Invitational
10h 10m
WardiTV Invitational
10h 10m
PiGosaur Monday
23h 10m
GSL Code S
1d 8h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.