EPTTLPD March winrates - Page 3
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Eliwood5837
245 Posts
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Rombur
Belgium107 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:04 Domus wrote: You do know the stats are based on almost 30.000 games right...right? No the number of games is misleading, it is 30.000 games over one year. | ||
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RemrafGrez
United States180 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote: Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
 I'm sorry, you can talk about how Terran requires the most mechanics/skill/etc. all you want, but in the end, winning is everything for a progamer (I believe MVP said this), and the numbers dictate that periods of Terran strength has Terran winning far more compared to how much Protoss wins during periods of Protoss strength.To me, it just seems like top-level Terrans get too comfortable with winning, then when the playing field is evened, suddenly they think Terran is weak because they're so used to winning -_- | ||
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:17 Rombur wrote: No the number of games is misleading, it is 30.000 games over one year. Doesn't really matter, even if the sample size is only a few hundred over the course of the month the stats are going to be reliable. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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BoB_KiLLeR
Spain620 Posts
I see what Stephano and MKP did there. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:40 BoB_KiLLeR wrote: Ah... I see what Stephano and MKP did there. lol well done with this post. It would be interesting to see how many of the games are from each race's respective top players. If 25% of the T replays from KR are MKP and Maru winning then it kinda throws the stats out of whack doesnt it | ||
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
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blinkingangels
105 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote: No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. The winrates of the general community do not equal the winrates of top pros. You must be confused. The general community of terrans do not win the most. That doesn't even make sense to think that. That fact alone kind of throws everything you said there in the beginning out the window. Also I have to add, many terrans have attempted to figure out how to beat a maxed protoss, just as protoss have tried everything to figure out how to beat terran's all ins. Thinking they haven't is just stupid, sorry to say. Generally on both sides, it just comes down to having to completely outplay your opponent. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16118 Posts
Those Korean Graphs are actually hilarious to look at. Just the amount of variation between each month is ridiculous. There's no wonder the foreign graph looks the way it does. Foreign Zergs have been performing much better than foreign Terrans or Protoss over the last month. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:38 hzflank wrote: I think people need to start ignoring the korean graph. I have seen many times people have said (in previous threads) that only the korean data matters. However, the sample size of the korean data has always been too small, which is why the korean graph changes so extremely. I have not studied statistics, but it seems obvious to me that we would be better off analysing only the international data. No, you are incorrect, and you would know why if you studied statistics. A sample size of greater than 30 is probably good enough. | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
On April 06 2012 04:44 Recoil wrote: Look at the huge change in TvZ. I don't think its all ghost nerf, I think a big part is the new mass ling w/ ugrades into infestor into hive tech strategy. I think TvZ will balance out next month. In TvP holy hell 60-40 in KR favoring T I AM HONESTLY SHOCKED. In ZvP why is it in the international scene Z is favored and the opposite is true in KR. Because korean protosses knows how to play protoss. Thought out build orders, great timings, abusing stuff such as BL immobility, good scouting (which many tosses lack) and consisency things such as forcefields which many foreigners seem to fail with placing well. | ||
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Orracle
United States314 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:12 CrazyBirdman wrote: To whoever put these together, tahnks for providing a colorblind version. Generally it is interesting how these statistics changed about the course of the last year and now it looks in Korea pretty much like rock, paper scissors. And that terran appears to be favored in Korea is very surprising given how much complaints there are about Protoss. But I guess you cannot judge based only on a single statistic. If pro-players feel Protoss is strong in the lategame I tend to believe them but that is onyl fair given how often we see a Terran crushing a Protoss before the game even truly starts for the viewer. You must take into account the crazy low sample size the KR graph holds this month. At 250 games, and no idea how many of games of each match up was played, these graphs can fluctuate greatly. On April 06 2012 07:05 Whitewing wrote: No, you are incorrect, and you would know why if you studied statistics. A sample size of greater than 30 is probably good enough. I'm not sure how you can say a sample size of 30 is fine. Do me a favor and look at the international statistics. You see the low variance and the trend lines? That is from a relatively large sample size. Now look at the Korean graph. Still see the same trend? Absolutely not. It fluctuates greatly. | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On April 06 2012 07:05 Whitewing wrote: No, you are incorrect, and you would know why if you studied statistics. A sample size of greater than 30 is probably good enough. We're not flipping a coing here dude so no, 30 is not good enough. Problem is that if you have tournaments, most of the games will be played by the guys who get into the finals. They will also have most games won, so if you have 1 guy who is just more skilled than the others, he can screw whole statistics up by just simply winning a tournament. Same thing applies in group stages etc. you can't take just couple of groups of GSL and says: hey, look at this statistics, because it's gonna be in favor of those favorites in those groups. I'd say 100+ is really minimum to say anything, even to determine current state and metagame. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On April 06 2012 07:13 Olsson wrote: Because korean protosses knows how to play protoss. Thought out build orders, great timings, abusing stuff such as BL immobility, good scouting (which many tosses lack) and consisency things such as forcefields which many foreigners seem to fail with placing well. The sample size in Korea is way too low to make any conclusions about anything. What, are the same Terrans who are massacring Protoss player somehow confounded by Zergs in Korea? Come on. International statistics are what matter, especially since they include the Korean tournaments. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
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