|
On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
|
On March 31 2012 08:01 MONXY FIST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? Yay for speculation based off of two cases.
As much as he's being a sensationalist about two cases, he's probably right. Lets see how many foreigners vs how many Koreans coL has a year from now.
|
On March 31 2012 02:45 HaXXspetten wrote:
SlayerS seem to be a major international exporter of awesomeness nowadays
Yup. Taeja, Ganzi, Golden, Sleep and Dragon. All of these guys are going to make waves in the international scene.
As a Slayers fan, it's hard to see them go, but I wish them the best.
|
On March 31 2012 08:16 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 02:45 HaXXspetten wrote:
SlayerS seem to be a major international exporter of awesomeness nowadays Yup. Taeja, Ganzi, Golden, Sleep and Dragon. All of these guys are going to make waves in the international scene. As a Slayers fan, it's hard to see them go, but I wish them the best.
While I agree that some of these guys are going to make waves I wouldn't say that they all will, at least not in the form they are in right now.
|
On March 31 2012 08:22 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:16 cablesc wrote:On March 31 2012 02:45 HaXXspetten wrote:
SlayerS seem to be a major international exporter of awesomeness nowadays Yup. Taeja, Ganzi, Golden, Sleep and Dragon. All of these guys are going to make waves in the international scene. As a Slayers fan, it's hard to see them go, but I wish them the best. While I agree that some of these guys are going to make waves I wouldn't say that they all will, at least not in the form they are in right now.
Well definitely there will be degrees of success (not saying they will dominate the scene or anything) but I think all these guys will thrive in their current situations:
- Ganzi's already got back to back top 8 finishes at MLG. His steady macro style will get him far at a lot of tournaments.
- Taeja's incredibly talented and now he's on one of the best and most popular foreign teams. He is certainly capable of winning a major tournament this year.
- Sleep made top 3 at lone star and he'll clean up at the smaller tournaments in the NA scene and all the Socal lans.
- Golden made a great run at MLG through the loser's bracket so he's certainly skilled enough to do well, especially if he enters the next MLG qualifier through the NA server..
- Dragon should do well in the Millennium house where he'll have access to all the Euro cups and small online tournaments.
|
Well all the best for Ganzi. Hope he can make something out of this. But im afraid it's going to be very hard for him to make something out of this. Well at least he has the chance to travel around the world to all the tournaments. But winning is going to be very hard. There are so many good players around. And he can easily lose early in a tournament. So I think for people at his level SC2 is still volatile. You can win or lose in a hartbeat. But that makes this game on of the best i think. Although I don't play very much anymore. I get bored rather quick. But I really hope Ganze will do great before he has too go to the millitary.
|
On March 31 2012 09:11 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:22 Promethelax wrote:On March 31 2012 08:16 cablesc wrote:On March 31 2012 02:45 HaXXspetten wrote:
SlayerS seem to be a major international exporter of awesomeness nowadays Yup. Taeja, Ganzi, Golden, Sleep and Dragon. All of these guys are going to make waves in the international scene. As a Slayers fan, it's hard to see them go, but I wish them the best. While I agree that some of these guys are going to make waves I wouldn't say that they all will, at least not in the form they are in right now. Well definitely there will be degrees of success (not saying they will dominate the scene or anything) but I think all these guys will thrive in their current situations: - Ganzi's already got back to back top 8 finishes at MLG. His steady macro style will get him far at a lot of tournaments. - Taeja's incredibly talented and now he's on one of the best and most popular foreign teams. He is certainly capable of winning a major tournament this year. - Sleep made top 3 at lone star and he'll clean up at the smaller tournaments in the NA scene and all the Socal lans. - Golden made a great run at MLG through the loser's bracket so he's certainly skilled enough to do well, especially if he enters the next MLG qualifier through the NA server.. - Dragon should do well in the Millennium house where he'll have access to all the Euro cups and small online tournaments.
Yeah, when you put it that way I totally agree with you. I'm less sure of Sleep, Golden and Dragon than I am of Taeja and Ganzi. I really think Dragon is the least proven of the five and although he has a huge fan base I'm not sure yet how well deserved it is. I hope he does well with Millennium.
|
On March 31 2012 08:14 Hardigan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening.
As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
|
|
|
Damn slayers is losing quite a few players lately
|
|
|
On March 31 2012 09:50 OpticalPhonon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:14 Hardigan wrote:On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know. I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening. As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
How on earth do you know the exact reasons (and i mean the unofficial ones)?
And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name).
|
So many players leaving slayers nowadays, kind of confusing as they seem to be one of the nicest teams to be one (as well as having better eco than most korean teams I think). But I guess foreign teams gives plenty of more money, as well as possibility to win even more money in foreign tournaments, so not to suprising. Anyway nice pickup by Complexity, their lineup is starting to look really sick.
|
On March 31 2012 22:57 Hardigan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 09:50 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 08:14 Hardigan wrote:On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know. I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening. As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile. How on earth do you know the exact reason s (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name).
If you look at which players EG and Fnatic have added and dropped over the last year you see a pattern emerge: they recruit players with results and/or personality while dropping players without them.
EG
Added: Puma (results), Huk (results and personality), and JYP (results)
Dropped: Axslav (very little results, some personality but EG already has a lot of players to fill that role) and Strifecro (no results or personality)
Fnatic
Added: Rain (results), Moon (results and personality), Alive (results), and ToD (some promising results and personality)
Dropped: TT1 (no results), Fenix (no results in 2011), KawaiiRice (no results), IefNaij (no results), IeZaeL (no results), and Roberto (no results)
Exception: Sen has great results and a great personality but left to join the Gama Bears so he could stay and compete in Taiwan. So he wasn't dropped, he simply got a better offer from a different team.
There seems to be only two other major foreign teams to go the Korean route to get results based players: Complexity (their last four acquisitions) and Liquid (their last three acquisitions). As Liquid's business model may be a bit different than that of the other teams the pattern I described above may not hold for them. However, for Complexity it should hold and now that they have a massive roster we're simply waiting to hear which players will get dropped.
Finally, you bring up SirScoots but you must be paraphrasing him out of context because he has said numerous times on Live on Three that EG will not recruit a player that they feel can't get results immediately. Furthermore, when responding to criticism as to why EG would keep a player like Incontrol he has continuously brought up the ROI that teams can get on players with a personality. Aside from results and personality, I have never heard him mention any other reason why EG would pick up or keep a player for an established game like SC2.
|
On April 01 2012 04:28 OpticalPhonon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 22:57 Hardigan wrote:On March 31 2012 09:50 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 08:14 Hardigan wrote:On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know. I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening. As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile. How on earth do you know the exact reason s (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name). If you look at which players EG and Fnatic have added and dropped over the last year you see a pattern emerge: they recruit players with results and/or personality while dropping players without them. EG Added: Puma (results), Huk (results and personality), and JYP (results) Dropped: Axslav (very little results, some personality but EG already has a lot of players to fill that role) and Strifecro (no results or personality) Fnatic Added: Rain (results), Moon (results and personality), Alive (results), and ToD (some promising results and personality) Dropped: TT1 (no results), Fenix (no results in 2011), KawaiiRice (no results), IefNaij (no results), IeZaeL (no results), and Roberto (no results) Exception: Sen has great results and a great personality but left to join the Gama Bears so he could stay and compete in Taiwan. So he wasn't dropped, he simply got a better offer from a different team. There seems to be only two other major foreign teams to go the Korean route to get results based players: Complexity (their last four acquisitions) and Liquid (their last three acquisitions). As Liquid's business model may be a bit different than that of the other teams the pattern I described above may not hold for them. However, for Complexity it should hold and now that they have a massive roster we're simply waiting to hear which players will get dropped. Finally, you bring up SirScoots but you must be paraphrasing him out of context because he has said numerous times on Live on Three that EG will not recruit a player that they feel can't get results immediately. Furthermore, when responding to criticism as to why EG would keep a player like Incontrol he has continuously brought up the ROI that teams can get on players with a personality. Aside from results and personality, I have never heard him mention any other reason why EG would pick up or keep a player for an established game like SC2.
What about the explanation that Axslav would be better of in an other Team than EG, because than he could be the star player of the new Team, while in EG he would be only ~the 5th best and that's why he left them? Maybe Strifcro wanted something new for whatever reason or he wanted to leave the Lair to live with his family/girlfriend/etc. or something else like that. You wouldn't know because you are not close with them.
Maybe the pretty unknown Fnatic players gave up on sc2 and that's why they got dropped. Maybe Fenix, the IM all killer in the GSTL, thought he could join a Korean Team (just speculations) (btw, Fenix has proven that he was a great foreign player in 2011).
Why exactly did MyM, a big Team themselve, hire TT1? wouldn't that contradict what you say?
It's not a simple A or B, it's not black and white, there are a ton more factors.
Pls, if you don't work for a esport Team and you aren't a player than you just don't know what exactly is going on. Yes, you can assume that high ROI is always better and important and you can assume that players with high ROI are less likly going to get dropped, but it's definitely not the only thing that matters.
And I never even talked about why Teams hires players with high ROI, i talk about the dropping of players and their "replacing". Incontrol himself said that their is no simple #Teamplayer line which you mustn't cross and if you do you immediately have to fire someone else.
|
|
|
On April 01 2012 05:36 Hardigan wrote:
What about the explanation that Axslav would be better of in an other Team than EG, because than he could be the star player of the new Team, while in EG he would be only ~the 5th best and that's why he left them? Maybe Strifcro wanted something new for whatever reason or he wanted to leave the Lair to live with his family/girlfriend/etc. or something else like that. You wouldn't know because you are not close with them.
Axslav said in this interview that he was dropped. Furthermore, if you read the announcement by EG it clearly says that both Strifecro and Axslav were let go: "Evil Geniuses ultimately decided as a team and company to part ways with both players."
Maybe the pretty unknown Fnatic players gave up on sc2 and that's why they got dropped. Maybe Fenix, the IM all killer in the GSTL, thought he could join a Korean Team (just speculations) (btw, Fenix has proven that he was a great foreign player in 2011).
QXC all-killed IM not Fenix (Fenix joined IM). Fenix had great results in 2010, not in 2011. If a player gives up on SC2 he's guaranteed to produce no results for his team. His dismissal will still fit into the paradigm I described earlier.
Why exactly did MyM, a big Team themselve, hire TT1? wouldn't that contradict what you say?
TT1 joined mTw not MYM. Their SC2 lineup is far inferior to that of Fnatic's. They may be a big team overall, but their focus on SC2 is small compared to that of Fnatic, EG, or Complexity. It's a step down for him and doesn't contradict what I said.
It's not a simple A or B, it's not black and white, there are a ton more factors.
Pls, if you don't work for a esport Team and you aren't a player than you just don't know what exactly is going on. Yes, you can assume that high ROI is always better and important and you can assume that players with high ROI are less likly going to get dropped, but it's definitely not the only thing that matters.
I listed over a dozen examples where ROI explains which players were acquired and which were dropped. There are a few exceptions out there, but in general it is as simple as A or B and it is black and white.
And I never even talked about why Teams hires players with high ROI, i talk about the dropping of players and their "replacing". Incontrol himself said that their is no simple #Teamplayer line which you mustn't cross and if you do you immediately have to fire someone else.
So basically you agree with me that a major foreign team will pick up a player based on either results or personality yet you disagree that these factors determine whether or not a team will renew a player's contract? How does that make any sense?
|
On March 31 2012 08:15 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:01 MONXY FIST wrote:On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? Yay for speculation based off of two cases. As much as he's being a sensationalist about two cases, he's probably right. Lets see how many foreigners vs how many Koreans coL has a year from now.
lol. None of you guys even see the big picture. Let's see how many foreigners vs how many Koreans are in professional SC2 a year from now. Skill gap seems to be widening over time.
|
|
|
On April 01 2012 04:28 OpticalPhonon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 22:57 Hardigan wrote:On March 31 2012 09:50 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 08:14 Hardigan wrote:On March 31 2012 07:58 OpticalPhonon wrote:On March 31 2012 05:03 RyanRushia wrote:On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote:
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites? I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know. I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening. As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile. How on earth do you know the exact reason s (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name). If you look at which players EG and Fnatic have added and dropped over the last year you see a pattern emerge: they recruit players with results and/or personality while dropping players without them. EG Added: Puma (results), Huk (results and personality), and JYP (results) Dropped: Axslav (very little results, some personality but EG already has a lot of players to fill that role) and Strifecro (no results or personality) Fnatic Added: Rain (results), Moon (results and personality), Alive (results), and ToD (some promising results and personality) Dropped: TT1 (no results), Fenix (no results in 2011), KawaiiRice (no results), IefNaij (no results), IeZaeL (no results), and Roberto (no results) Exception: Sen has great results and a great personality but left to join the Gama Bears so he could stay and compete in Taiwan. So he wasn't dropped, he simply got a better offer from a different team. There seems to be only two other major foreign teams to go the Korean route to get results based players: Complexity (their last four acquisitions) and Liquid (their last three acquisitions). As Liquid's business model may be a bit different than that of the other teams the pattern I described above may not hold for them. However, for Complexity it should hold and now that they have a massive roster we're simply waiting to hear which players will get dropped. Finally, you bring up SirScoots but you must be paraphrasing him out of context because he has said numerous times on Live on Three that EG will not recruit a player that they feel can't get results immediately. Furthermore, when responding to criticism as to why EG would keep a player like Incontrol he has continuously brought up the ROI that teams can get on players with a personality. Aside from results and personality, I have never heard him mention any other reason why EG would pick up or keep a player for an established game like SC2.
top2 PTSL#2 ...and i won every single clan war (No results? xD)
I left the team because there is no more 2v2s in important leagues ;o~
Recently i qualifed for The Gathering 2012 , but im not going sadly O.O~
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
