Today everyone at compLexity Gaming is thrilled to announce another major addition to our StarCraft 2 squad. He is a player who needs no introduction. His performance inside and outside Korea has proven to be one of consistency and excellence.
Please welcome Kim "GanZi" Dong Ju to the compLexity family!
Rather than go on a long diatribe about Kim's success we will link you to his Team Liquid Wiki.
Ganzi's first event with us will be IPL 4 next week in Las Vegas. Please welcome him here!
Thanks as always for your support. We keep saying that we're working harder than ever to earn it, and we sincerely mean it.
Impressive pick-up by coL! Hope he can grow to his full potential in coL with some pretty strong teammates, and the opportunity to travel to more tournaments.
Damn, that's one hell of a lineup for coL now. If coL.MvP is still keeping their partnership, that means that Ganzi could continue to train with some of the best Koreans out there.
GoGanzi and col. Hope they find sucsess. Now the only questionis whos picking up Taeja? Also, why is col picking up so many awesome Koreans when their partnered with MVP?
Wow, complexity really becoming a strong team now! Glad Ganzi got picked up - had a feeling he wouldn't be teamless for long XD Good luck to him in future tournamets- ill be routing for him at iPL!
Already had the strongest overall Terran lineup for a foreign team after they picked up Nada and Heart, but this takes it to another level. Closest competition probably mouz with 1.33 amazing Terrans? Then maybe Empire?
EDIT: forgot Dignitas got Sjow back, I'd put them above Empire
Where is Col getting all this money to sign all these Koreans? Good pickup I suppose but it seems that they are extending themselves too far but what do I know.
On March 28 2012 10:37 strongandbig wrote: Wow, pretty impressive! Complexity getting up towards being a legit gstl-type contender - ganzi, heart, nada are really good.
I was gonna point out that the OP didn't actually link to the TL wiki but I got ninja'd by the ESPORTS bot.
I wonder what the deal is now between Complexity and MVP, since they probably can no longer afford to bring over MVP players to foreign tournaments, as well as their own Korean roster.
At the last MLG, if anyone noticed, DRG was not wearing a Complexity jersey, just an arm patch, and his in game tag was MVPDRG, not colMVPDRG like in previous MLGs.
A decent signing that's not a huge risk for coL in the long run given that Ganzi has to go for his military service in about a years time. Whatever he's getting paid and the costs incurred from keeping him competing at foreign LANs is a relatively safe investment providing they did it for reasonable sums.
soon there will be no foreigner players on foreigner teams :D. i don't blame them though, koreans are sick! and ganzi is probably top 5 terran in the world.
On March 28 2012 11:16 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: Where is Col getting all this money to sign all these Koreans? Good pickup I suppose but it seems that they are extending themselves too far but what do I know.
Maybe private investors/venture capitalists? I have no idea, but Jason Lake who's been head of complexity has been around since the CS 1.6 days when Team 3D and SK were practically household names in CS. If more than anything, he knows how to run and keep Complexity going. I wouldn't worry about where the money is coming from.
Nice pick up for coL... but am I the only one that notices that the TeamLiquid ESPORTS account always has one post lolol? TL accounts can defile math : )
Badass. Ganzi is top tier Terran. I think it's safe to say that coL>Liquid>EG now. Love GanZi, and I love Heart as well, been a fan of him for a long time(had the pleasure of getting roflstomped by Heart on his stream haha), glad he finally showed the foreign audience his skill at MLG.
On March 28 2012 11:20 sitromit wrote: I wonder what the deal is now between Complexity and MVP, since they probably can no longer afford to bring over MVP players to foreign tournaments, as well as their own Korean roster.
At the last MLG, if anyone noticed, DRG was not wearing a Complexity jersey, just an arm patch, and his in game tag was MVPDRG, not colMVPDRG like in previous MLGs.
Hmm, that's interesting and now that I think about it, during the finals Clutch introduced DRG as from Team MVP instead of ComplexityMVP.
On March 28 2012 11:20 sitromit wrote: I wonder what the deal is now between Complexity and MVP, since they probably can no longer afford to bring over MVP players to foreign tournaments, as well as their own Korean roster.
At the last MLG, if anyone noticed, DRG was not wearing a Complexity jersey, just an arm patch, and his in game tag was MVPDRG, not colMVPDRG like in previous MLGs.
Hmm, that's interesting and now that I think about it, during the finals Clutch introduced DRG as from Team MVP instead of ComplexityMVP.
yup i think complexity and MVP are no longer partners
Pretty expected - it was either Ganzi or Taeja. But DAYM coL stacking their team roster. NaDa, Killer, Ganzi and after MLG Heart definitely deserves a mention.
I hope to see coL turn into a huge powerhouse as a team now! Best of luck to them!
On March 28 2012 11:57 bkrow wrote: Pretty expected - it was either Ganzi or Taeja. But DAYM coL stacking their team roster. NaDa, Killer, Ganzi and after MLG Heart definitely deserves a mention.
I hope to see coL turn into a huge powerhouse as a team now! Best of luck to them!
Heart's always been a great player, consistently does well in KR GM but overshadowed by the Korean Terran powerhouses
wooow again another top tier korean for their team? shit son i knew col was gettng serious when the got nada, but this is next level.. that roster is starting to look pretty scary, colMVP is going to be a powerhouse soon
This is really cool, definitely a valuable player for complexity to pick up. But it makes me a little sad as I feel that because it isn't very hard now to pick up Koreans (as also the Koreans themselves are happy with the deals) there is less search for new blood foreigners. Granted it's probably a wiser choice to grab any Koreans they can, but it just seems like that's what all the teams have been doing recently and as a result upcoming foreigners are getting kinda screwed in the process.
With another pickup of this quality I would really like to see coL step out of the shadow of MVP and start using their own talent exclusively in the various online team leagues. Col would have to have one of the deepest rosters of any teams now with 4 top Koreans and a western team list including players like Catz, Drewbie, Minigun, Goswser, TriMaster and qxc. With that list I would say its pretty unfair for people to point out that this is 'just' another Korean pick up when they do have such a deep western roster already.
saw this coming a while away lol, as soon as he and taeja left i was like, yep going to one of the foreign teams, probably complexity as they are trying to build a korean team lol. But best of luck to him .
Awesome pickup. Col rockin both the east and west. Im not sure how lake affords these players, but Im sure hes working hard to make the money back. Regardless, Lake is the kinda guy who is willing to lose money if it means winning championships, lake LOVES his champions.
He's been doing a great job about being more connected to the community with his daily streaming and whatnot. He seems quite serious about getting the most out of his time before he has to do his military service. He's a fantastic Terran so it's a good pick for Complexity and a great deal for him.
eSports teams should hire proper editors or copywriters. It seems way less legitimate when major organizations misuse words or create grammatical nightmares.
Congrats to GanZi. I'll miss you on SlayerS though.
On March 28 2012 13:13 IPA wrote: eSports teams should hire proper editors or copywriters. It seems way less legitimate when major organizations misuse words or create grammatical nightmares.
Congrats to GanZi. I'll miss you on SlayerS though.
100% my fault. Between rushing the PR and my head cold I chose the wrong word. It happens :/
On March 28 2012 10:37 strongandbig wrote: Wow, pretty impressive! Complexity getting up towards being a legit gstl-type contender - ganzi, heart, nada are really good.
I was gonna point out that the OP didn't actually link to the TL wiki but I got ninja'd by the ESPORTS bot.
legit gstl-type contender ????????
ummm MVP WON the last GSTL and they are heavy favorites to win this one and the next one.
On March 28 2012 13:13 IPA wrote: eSports teams should hire proper editors or copywriters. It seems way less legitimate when major organizations misuse words or create grammatical nightmares.
Congrats to GanZi. I'll miss you on SlayerS though.
100% my fault. Between rushing the PR and my head cold I chose the wrong word. It happens :/
It shouldn't happen. You as an organization should have someone else doing this for you if you feel you are not in the proper condition to do so. Either that or at least consult SOMEONE before throwing it up.
On March 28 2012 12:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: FXO, Fnatic, and now Complexity seemed to have transformed their entire lineup into Korean teams. o.0 wonder how much the trend will continue
It will likely continue until Korean teams start getting major sponsors or the korean SC2 scene collapses.
The korean teams are seeding up the foreigner teams with some of their former players that have experience playing at the highest level in Korea. I can see the playing field getting more level everyday, sadly we are still firmly in the era of every major semi-final for tournaments being a korean only affair. However that glass ceiling shatters a bit more each time the korean mindshare is spread to the foreigner teams.
he goes from IM->slayers->coL->? please people don't ever bash major for simply doing what gets him to reach his goals quicker just like ganzi is doing.
Nice pickup. In my mind Ganzi will forever be the master at proxying barracks in sc2. I can recall a game vs a zerg on crossfire where he proxied his first depot and rax literally right in front of the hatchery just barely out of range that just blew my mind.
Olé, meaning even more Koreans will try to find a foreign team to be sponsored by. The question is when coL is going to stop and when they are going to get some return on their money. Signing a NaDa can't have been cheap... Always sad to see people go to foreign teams but now they are so many you can't even take GSTL 100% serious because MC, aLive, GanZi, Taeja etc. are gone...
On March 28 2012 15:19 Terranist wrote: he goes from IM->slayers->coL->? please people don't ever bash major for simply doing what gets him to reach his goals quicker just like ganzi is doing.
He was on IM for awhile when it just started up and hadn't stabilized its line-up. And that was a really really long time ago. He was on SlayerS for a really long time (more than a year) and was an integral part of the team, and where he grew a lot as a player. He also departed on amicable terms.
I don't see how this has anything to do with Major.
On March 28 2012 15:45 nick1689 wrote: Nice pickup! Someone correct me if im wrong, but isnt Ganzi due for his military service soon?
Yeah. It was one of the reason's he left SlayerS. He wanted to experience a foreign team before doing his service. (kinda like NaDa)
Ahhh , I feel like this is GREAT for Col. but ... I dont see this helping Ganzi with anything other than seeing the world... But player wise ? I only see this being negative for him :/. (Ganzi Fighting! :D)
Another team starting to move to completely Korean players... It's a fantastic pick up by compLexity, I just wish that somehow foreigners were able to keep up.
wow col. is really building up! still i don't really understand it- ganzi is about to enlist in the army- that's why he's left slayers. same is with nada. so even though i like their korean roaster a lot, it's still a weired choice picking up 2 players who have to serve in the army soon (at least nada wants to do that next year). still congratz!
It does seem like foreign players have no appeal or interest to the bigger teams now, It is good that the teams only care about winning, but surely the ideal goal is a foreigner who can compete with koreans?
On March 28 2012 17:25 resilve wrote: It does seem like foreign players have no appeal or interest to the bigger teams now, It is good that the teams only care about winning, but surely the ideal goal is a foreigner who can compete with koreans?
Eh think the only way we'll see foreigners get signed again are if for some reason sc2 progaming collapses in korea as someone in this thread mentioned or something to that affect. I think any new foreigners being signed is going to be very rare indeed unfortunately but oh well.
The reason foreigners are of no interest to bigger teams is because of their asking salary. When someone like Sjow or Thorzain asks for a $2,000/month (hypothetical scenario) salary, why would a team with financial constraints pick him up when in fact you can pick up a Code S level player for the same amount. Would you prefer a ganzi/thestc (code S players who havent recieved a top 2 placement in GSL yet) on your team or would u prefer paying the same amount for sjow/thorzain?
The answer is simple enough
Note: The 2000 US$ amount is made up, but the actual asking prices for EU players is indeed in the same range of Korean players of Code A and Code S who have not won a GSL yet. Examples - FXO, Liquid, EG, Fnatic, now coL. Simple economics and common sense will always prevail in any business.
Well foreigners are important if you want to create attachment to your team. I can`t see that despite success Col will attain a fanbase in the range of Liquid or EG. Nevertheless signing Ganzi is a big deal for Col.
The only reason to sign Ganzi over Taeja is for a short contract as Ganzi is supposedly leaving for the military soon. Taeja has way more upside than Ganzi.
On March 28 2012 17:36 hyperknight wrote: The reason foreigners are of no interest to bigger teams is because of their asking salary. When someone like Sjow or Thorzain asks for a $2,000/month (hypothetical scenario) salary, why would a team with financial constraints pick him up when in fact you can pick up a Code S level player for the same amount. Would you prefer a ganzi/thestc (code S players who havent recieved a top 2 placement in GSL yet) on your team or would u prefer paying the same amount for sjow/thorzain?
The answer is simple enough
Note: The 2000 US$ amount is made up, but the actual asking prices for EU players is indeed in the same range of Korean players of Code A and Code S who have not won a GSL yet. Examples - FXO, Liquid, EG, Fnatic, now coL. Simple economics and common sense will always prevail in any business.
That's an oversimplification. You can turn it around and say why should they pay a mid-tier Korean player that get ~300 viewers when he stream instead of a player like Idra that get up to 10 000 at times despite him often getting demolished by players of that calibre. A player that Ganzi haven't won many tournaments despite him being better than most foreigners. Value is a subjective thing and even if teams does premier skill, you also have to judge the markability of said player since prize money is only part of today's buinsess model for teams. In fact many teams do not rely on prize money much at all. For that reason I think we'll see foreigners remain on most teams in combination with Korean "hit squads."
On March 28 2012 17:59 ItsMeDomLee wrote: The only reason to sign Ganzi over Taeja is for a short contract as Ganzi is supposedly leaving for the military soon. Taeja has way more upside than Ganzi.
Ganzi has more achievements than Taeja, getting a SF in a recent GSL is not a bad feat. Also with the short contract the money constraint on coL is much smaller, meaning if he doesn't perform (and why shouldn't he?) he is "easier" to get away with. Taeja still needs to show that he can perform in non-team LAN tournaments. So he is a bigger risk than Ganzi because he has no "big" history.
On March 28 2012 17:36 hyperknight wrote: The reason foreigners are of no interest to bigger teams is because of their asking salary. When someone like Sjow or Thorzain asks for a $2,000/month (hypothetical scenario) salary, why would a team with financial constraints pick him up when in fact you can pick up a Code S level player for the same amount. Would you prefer a ganzi/thestc (code S players who havent recieved a top 2 placement in GSL yet) on your team or would u prefer paying the same amount for sjow/thorzain?
The answer is simple enough
Note: The 2000 US$ amount is made up, but the actual asking prices for EU players is indeed in the same range of Korean players of Code A and Code S who have not won a GSL yet. Examples - FXO, Liquid, EG, Fnatic, now coL. Simple economics and common sense will always prevail in any business.
When the majority of a teams income is not from results, but from marketing, a good foreigner is more valuable than a code S korean. No one gives a shit about most of the koreans, while there's always a huge buzz around the best foreigners.
On March 28 2012 17:13 chadissilent wrote: Another team starting to move to completely Korean players... It's a fantastic pick up by compLexity, I just wish that somehow foreigners were able to keep up.
Complexity is still holding their foreign players though, even a lot of the ones with little to no results are still listed as being on the team even though we never see them played in team leagues(unsurprisingly considering the amount of talent on Complexity). In addition, you still see a lot of their better foreign talent played in team leagues such as Minigun, Drewbie, Catz, QXC and sometimes even Goswser.
On March 28 2012 17:36 hyperknight wrote: The reason foreigners are of no interest to bigger teams is because of their asking salary. When someone like Sjow or Thorzain asks for a $2,000/month (hypothetical scenario) salary, why would a team with financial constraints pick him up when in fact you can pick up a Code S level player for the same amount. Would you prefer a ganzi/thestc (code S players who havent recieved a top 2 placement in GSL yet) on your team or would u prefer paying the same amount for sjow/thorzain?
The answer is simple enough
Note: The 2000 US$ amount is made up, but the actual asking prices for EU players is indeed in the same range of Korean players of Code A and Code S who have not won a GSL yet. Examples - FXO, Liquid, EG, Fnatic, now coL. Simple economics and common sense will always prevail in any business.
When the majority of a teams income is not from results, but from marketing, a good foreigner is more valuable than a code S korean. No one gives a shit about most of the koreans, while there's always a huge buzz around the best foreigners.
exactly highest finishing foreigner gets more attention than a good placing korean
Got to say CoL are doing pretty well rosterwise for any team league like NASTL or that IPL team one or even like splitting out of MVP for GSTL would be ok since they have a roster that can do a lot of damage. Although all of their best players are terran which would be a problem since then all they need to do is train hard for top level korean terran play and probably straight up win so maybe they shouldn't split from MVP for GSTL and other team leagues because CoLMVP would do really well with the combined roster.
Wow col and MVP just got so much stronger. Ganz has incredible talent and I really hope his new team gives him the motivation he seems to lack right now.
To all of the fans making the compliments on the pick up, we thank you. Some have had some legitimate questions about why we are picking up Korean players instead of foreign players. As you all know we have tried to pick up several notable players and for one reason or another it has not worked out. I will not rehash all of the details. That being said we look around the field of foreign players and the most marketable and top foreign players are signed to contracts. We are a professional video gaming team that is one of the oldest in the world and we are built on championships. So naturally with our partnership with MVP and Coach Choi we start looking at the Korean SC2 scene and begin scout talent there. Our fans and the fans of the players also need to keep in mind that our sponsors are global companies and as such the Korean market matters and the Korean players transcend all markets as they are popular and beloved throughout the world. We love the foreign players we have now and will continue to work with them and will always keep our eyes open for available players. We have the Academy and that will continue.
On March 28 2012 10:37 strongandbig wrote: Wow, pretty impressive! Complexity getting up towards being a legit gstl-type contender - ganzi, heart, nada are really good.
I was gonna point out that the OP didn't actually link to the TL wiki but I got ninja'd by the ESPORTS bot.
Called colMVP for a reason, I think they'll just play with MVP next season.
Gratz to both parties, though I was never a huge ganzi fan, the more koreans at foreign events the better :D
Im not sure how much longer trimaster is in Korea but it would be so f'in amazing if Col fielded its own team for the GSTL. I would be their #1 fan Please send drewbie and minigun and make a real hybrid team for the GSTL!
On March 28 2012 17:32 hyperknight wrote: rofl coL creating the ultimate mercenary team...
What I find (sadly) hilarious is that when we sent TriMaster to Korea we got flamed for wasting money on a developing foreign talent. Yet when we sign Koreans people accuse us of not supporting foreigners enough. Can't win I suppose.
On March 28 2012 17:32 hyperknight wrote: rofl coL creating the ultimate mercenary team...
What I find (sadly) hilarious is that when we sent TriMaster to Korea we got flamed for wasting money on a developing foreign talent. Yet when we sign Koreans people accuse us of not supporting foreigners enough. Can't win I suppose.
Dont let the couple nubs get to you, Jason. Most people are supportive of you and everything you guys do for western esports. Now, just get col into the gstl!!! Would love to see your team sitting in the gom studio representing Col and showing great matches!
On March 28 2012 17:32 hyperknight wrote: rofl coL creating the ultimate mercenary team...
What I find (sadly) hilarious is that when we sent TriMaster to Korea we got flamed for wasting money on a developing foreign talent. Yet when we sign Koreans people accuse us of not supporting foreigners enough. Can't win I suppose.
On March 28 2012 17:32 hyperknight wrote: rofl coL creating the ultimate mercenary team...
What I find (sadly) hilarious is that when we sent TriMaster to Korea we got flamed for wasting money on a developing foreign talent. Yet when we sign Koreans people accuse us of not supporting foreigners enough. Can't win I suppose.
Haters gonna hate. Just remeber that fans (like me) greatly support you sending TriMaster to Korea in order to develop his skills (Sick!), as well as picking up pro's like Ganzi, Nada and Heart. The last performing exceptionally well with a 3rd place in MLG Winter Championship!
On March 28 2012 17:32 hyperknight wrote: rofl coL creating the ultimate mercenary team...
What I find (sadly) hilarious is that when we sent TriMaster to Korea we got flamed for wasting money on a developing foreign talent. Yet when we sign Koreans people accuse us of not supporting foreigners enough. Can't win I suppose.
don't listen to the dummies.
great pickup.
If you run your team to please every TLer you're doomed! that's a sick pick up and it's good that your trying to give their chance to foreigners and recruit some skilled Koreans at the same time
This looks like Complexity once again trying to rival Evil Geniuses after EG accquired their star CS 1.6 team back in the day. EG already had a decent foreigner team featuring IdrA and HuK, but then they added PuMa and JYP. Whereas coL's team comprised of veteran players, none of them really placed as high in tournaments all-around. So it comes as no surprise to me that coL has picked up NaDa, Heart, Killer, and now GanZi.
The North American rivalry continues...the next few months will tell which team is superior in SC2.
Good luck to both organizations and their players!
I'm a little worried some of these very rich teams could cause a situation similar to wc3 though. How long will korean teams be able to afford their own players?
Well there's goes my respect for Ganzi out the window. I can't in my wildest fantasies imagine why someone would leave slayers for a team such as "col". Really?
So these Korean players that are signed directly by complexity, how does that interact with the coL/MVP partnership in Korea? If complexity gets enough people in Korea to do GSTL would they be their own team or would these people play as part of MVP? What about if a coL foreign player goes to Korea to train, they stay and train with MVP right? so if they want to play in GSTL would they play with MVP or with Nada, Heart, Ganzi, etc (hypothetically speaking if there were enough independently signed coL Korean players to field a GSTL team)
I expected this. I was wondering how he was able to come to MLG without a team paying for him(flights from korea can cost $1000). And I saw that Jason Lake said something on twitter. Very nice to see 4 Koreans on complexity
On March 29 2012 04:07 cscarfo1 wrote: I expected this. I was wondering how he was able to come to MLG without a team paying for him(flights from korea can cost $1000). And I saw that Jason Lake said something on twitter. Very nice to see 4 Koreans on complexity
Ganzi was top 16 in Arena. Top 16 got all their expenses paid for Winter Championship by MLG.
On March 29 2012 04:07 cscarfo1 wrote: I expected this. I was wondering how he was able to come to MLG without a team paying for him(flights from korea can cost $1000). And I saw that Jason Lake said something on twitter. Very nice to see 4 Koreans on complexity
Ganzi was top 16 in Arena. Top 16 got all their expenses paid for Winter Championship by MLG.
Ah I thought they only got paid flight to arena. Thanks for clearing it up
Complexity looks like it can join the GSTL already. They have multiple Code S level players, numerous other fierce competitors and a sniper or two. Come to think of it, they probably should join the GSTL.
On March 29 2012 03:07 bARBRO wrote: Well there's goes my respect for Ganzi out the window. I can't in my wildest fantasies imagine why someone would leave slayers for a team such as "col". Really?
What? Players have their own priorities. Maybe its a question of money, maybe its a question of team dynamics, but they all have good reasons for switching teams. Besides, Ganzi will still be able to train with top level Koreans.
On March 29 2012 03:07 bARBRO wrote: Well there's goes my respect for Ganzi out the window. I can't in my wildest fantasies imagine why someone would leave slayers for a team such as "col". Really?
What? Players have their own priorities. Maybe its a question of money, maybe its a question of team dynamics, but they all have good reasons for switching teams. Besides, Ganzi will still be able to train with top level Koreans.
It also needs to be taken into account that Ganzi is Korean and probably isn't as familiar with the perception that foreigners have of coL. I don't think we should judge Ganzi for joining a team that isn't as revered as SlayerS to us, because he just saw NaDa join coL, coL has the partnership with the MVP, and Ganzi will probably have more international opportunity with coL.
At the end of the day, his motivation is probably to play in more foreign tournaments, so we should be understanding about the fact that there are only so many ways to do that. And I don't think coL is really that bad myself
That said, yea I'd rather see him on SlayerS but congrats to to Ganzi and coL
On March 29 2012 03:07 bARBRO wrote: Well there's goes my respect for Ganzi out the window. I can't in my wildest fantasies imagine why someone would leave slayers for a team such as "col". Really?
foreigner teams pay better and give you more opportunities to travel to foreign tournaments = more money and money makes the world go round
I just have to say congratulations to coL. These signings are amazing. However, why do they keep their NA players? Apart from maybe their contract not expired yet I mean.. What is Catz compared to Ganzi/NaDa? No offense to Catz, he's a solid and funplaying player just under the level of the best in the world, but compared to these new players? I don't know. Don't see what NaDa gets from being on the same team as their NA players.
On March 29 2012 06:09 Tryxtira wrote: I just have to say congratulations to coL. These signings are amazing. However, why do they keep their NA players? Apart from maybe their contract not expired yet I mean.. What is Catz compared to Ganzi/NaDa? No offense to Catz, he's a solid and funplaying player just under the level of the best in the world, but compared to these new players? I don't know. Don't see what NaDa gets from being on the same team as their NA players.
Catz is popular, also they are trying to develop players. Jason Lake says how he likes to develop players as well as having high level players. Also NaDa has a 3 other korean players on his team plus another full Korean team he can practice with if he so chooses but this way he can also be flown all over the world to foreign tournaments with a nice paycheck to boot.
On March 29 2012 03:07 bARBRO wrote: Well there's goes my respect for Ganzi out the window. I can't in my wildest fantasies imagine why someone would leave slayers for a team such as "col". Really?
Yeah man, "col"... For real, one of the oldest organizations in eSport, I totally have to put their abbreviation in quotations to make them sound like some random-ass garbage team.
Complexity has established the second longest running tight nit partnerships in Starcraft 2(longest if you consider it was the first of it's kind in being both a financial and training partnership), has kept and built up a lot of foreign talent and continues to do so.
You wonder why a player would leave SlayerS when they're getting offered the chance to represent and be flown to events by one of the oldest organizations in eSports partnered with pretty much the best team in Starcraft 2 right now(based on recent results)? If you opened your mind a little, maybe you would figure out why.
Do people not realize why Ganzi left slayers? He has to do his mandatory millitary service in about a year, and he stated before he left, he wanted to experience what it was like to be on a foreign team, even if it was only for 1 year. Props to him for expanding his horizons.
On March 29 2012 08:23 omgimonfire15 wrote: Do people not realize why Ganzi left slayers? He has to do his mandatory millitary service in about a year, and he stated before he left, he wanted to experience what it was like to be on a foreign team, even if it was only for 1 year. Props to him for expanding his horizons.
And also being away from Korea with a long-term visa grants you the possibility to extend your wait for military service.
On March 29 2012 11:54 GodOfWar wrote: coL really a bunch of mercs, they dont even have a own teamhouse.
fnatic would have been better place ;-/
but anyways he will join military soon anyway so dont care too much..
are you really that goddamn ignorant? Col has had a partnership with mvp for god knows how long by now that has benefited both teams and all the players greatly. Now complexity has a nice balance between eastern and western players that will be playing in tournaments all over the world. seriously shut up dude.
On March 29 2012 11:54 GodOfWar wrote: coL really a bunch of mercs, they dont even have a own teamhouse.
fnatic would have been better place ;-/
but anyways he will join military soon anyway so dont care too much..
also, too bad your boys alive and polt had to sit by and watch on day 3 while heart ripped up mlg taking 3rd place. and, lol, polt isnt even on fnatic ROFL
On March 29 2012 11:54 GodOfWar wrote: coL really a bunch of mercs, they dont even have a own teamhouse.
fnatic would have been better place ;-/
but anyways he will join military soon anyway so dont care too much..
are you really that goddamn ignorant? Col has had a partnership with mvp for god knows how long by now that has benefited both teams and all the players greatly. Now complexity has a nice balance between eastern and western players that will be playing in tournaments all over the world. seriously shut up dude.
User was temp banned for this post.
I duns see why that deserves a ban, seriously, banning a person when the rudest word he said is shut up?
^To me that sounds like people noticing Chelsea or Real Madrid just buying players left right and centre and supporting them because of how big the names are, but they'll definitely work hard for results. My only fear is that complexity would become a big team with foreigners overshadowed by the success of their Koreans.
With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Not sure if I missed something earlier in the thread, but how can coL seriously support all of these players? Where are they raking in all of this money?
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
Yay for speculation based off of two cases.
As much as he's being a sensationalist about two cases, he's probably right. Lets see how many foreigners vs how many Koreans coL has a year from now.
On March 31 2012 02:45 HaXXspetten wrote: SlayerS seem to be a major international exporter of awesomeness nowadays
Yup. Taeja, Ganzi, Golden, Sleep and Dragon. All of these guys are going to make waves in the international scene.
As a Slayers fan, it's hard to see them go, but I wish them the best.
While I agree that some of these guys are going to make waves I wouldn't say that they all will, at least not in the form they are in right now.
Well definitely there will be degrees of success (not saying they will dominate the scene or anything) but I think all these guys will thrive in their current situations:
- Ganzi's already got back to back top 8 finishes at MLG. His steady macro style will get him far at a lot of tournaments. - Taeja's incredibly talented and now he's on one of the best and most popular foreign teams. He is certainly capable of winning a major tournament this year. - Sleep made top 3 at lone star and he'll clean up at the smaller tournaments in the NA scene and all the Socal lans. - Golden made a great run at MLG through the loser's bracket so he's certainly skilled enough to do well, especially if he enters the next MLG qualifier through the NA server.. - Dragon should do well in the Millennium house where he'll have access to all the Euro cups and small online tournaments.
Well all the best for Ganzi. Hope he can make something out of this. But im afraid it's going to be very hard for him to make something out of this. Well at least he has the chance to travel around the world to all the tournaments. But winning is going to be very hard. There are so many good players around. And he can easily lose early in a tournament. So I think for people at his level SC2 is still volatile. You can win or lose in a hartbeat. But that makes this game on of the best i think. Although I don't play very much anymore. I get bored rather quick. But I really hope Ganze will do great before he has too go to the millitary.
On March 31 2012 02:45 HaXXspetten wrote: SlayerS seem to be a major international exporter of awesomeness nowadays
Yup. Taeja, Ganzi, Golden, Sleep and Dragon. All of these guys are going to make waves in the international scene.
As a Slayers fan, it's hard to see them go, but I wish them the best.
While I agree that some of these guys are going to make waves I wouldn't say that they all will, at least not in the form they are in right now.
Well definitely there will be degrees of success (not saying they will dominate the scene or anything) but I think all these guys will thrive in their current situations:
- Ganzi's already got back to back top 8 finishes at MLG. His steady macro style will get him far at a lot of tournaments. - Taeja's incredibly talented and now he's on one of the best and most popular foreign teams. He is certainly capable of winning a major tournament this year. - Sleep made top 3 at lone star and he'll clean up at the smaller tournaments in the NA scene and all the Socal lans. - Golden made a great run at MLG through the loser's bracket so he's certainly skilled enough to do well, especially if he enters the next MLG qualifier through the NA server.. - Dragon should do well in the Millennium house where he'll have access to all the Euro cups and small online tournaments.
Yeah, when you put it that way I totally agree with you. I'm less sure of Sleep, Golden and Dragon than I am of Taeja and Ganzi. I really think Dragon is the least proven of the five and although he has a huge fan base I'm not sure yet how well deserved it is. I hope he does well with Millennium.
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening.
As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening.
As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
How on earth do you know the exact reasons (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name).
So many players leaving slayers nowadays, kind of confusing as they seem to be one of the nicest teams to be one (as well as having better eco than most korean teams I think). But I guess foreign teams gives plenty of more money, as well as possibility to win even more money in foreign tournaments, so not to suprising. Anyway nice pickup by Complexity, their lineup is starting to look really sick.
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening.
As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
How on earth do you know the exact reasons (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name).
If you look at which players EG and Fnatic have added and dropped over the last year you see a pattern emerge: they recruit players with results and/or personality while dropping players without them.
EG Added: Puma (results), Huk (results and personality), and JYP (results) Dropped: Axslav (very little results, some personality but EG already has a lot of players to fill that role) and Strifecro (no results or personality)
Fnatic Added: Rain (results), Moon (results and personality), Alive (results), and ToD (some promising results and personality) Dropped: TT1 (no results), Fenix (no results in 2011), KawaiiRice (no results), IefNaij (no results), IeZaeL (no results), and Roberto (no results) Exception: Sen has great results and a great personality but left to join the Gama Bears so he could stay and compete in Taiwan. So he wasn't dropped, he simply got a better offer from a different team.
There seems to be only two other major foreign teams to go the Korean route to get results based players: Complexity (their last four acquisitions) and Liquid (their last three acquisitions). As Liquid's business model may be a bit different than that of the other teams the pattern I described above may not hold for them. However, for Complexity it should hold and now that they have a massive roster we're simply waiting to hear which players will get dropped.
Finally, you bring up SirScoots but you must be paraphrasing him out of context because he has said numerous times on Live on Three that EG will not recruit a player that they feel can't get results immediately. Furthermore, when responding to criticism as to why EG would keep a player like Incontrol he has continuously brought up the ROI that teams can get on players with a personality. Aside from results and personality, I have never heard him mention any other reason why EG would pick up or keep a player for an established game like SC2.
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening.
As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
How on earth do you know the exact reasons (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name).
If you look at which players EG and Fnatic have added and dropped over the last year you see a pattern emerge: they recruit players with results and/or personality while dropping players without them.
EG Added: Puma (results), Huk (results and personality), and JYP (results) Dropped: Axslav (very little results, some personality but EG already has a lot of players to fill that role) and Strifecro (no results or personality)
Fnatic Added: Rain (results), Moon (results and personality), Alive (results), and ToD (some promising results and personality) Dropped: TT1 (no results), Fenix (no results in 2011), KawaiiRice (no results), IefNaij (no results), IeZaeL (no results), and Roberto (no results) Exception: Sen has great results and a great personality but left to join the Gama Bears so he could stay and compete in Taiwan. So he wasn't dropped, he simply got a better offer from a different team.
There seems to be only two other major foreign teams to go the Korean route to get results based players: Complexity (their last four acquisitions) and Liquid (their last three acquisitions). As Liquid's business model may be a bit different than that of the other teams the pattern I described above may not hold for them. However, for Complexity it should hold and now that they have a massive roster we're simply waiting to hear which players will get dropped.
Finally, you bring up SirScoots but you must be paraphrasing him out of context because he has said numerous times on Live on Three that EG will not recruit a player that they feel can't get results immediately. Furthermore, when responding to criticism as to why EG would keep a player like Incontrol he has continuously brought up the ROI that teams can get on players with a personality. Aside from results and personality, I have never heard him mention any other reason why EG would pick up or keep a player for an established game like SC2.
What about the explanation that Axslav would be better of in an other Team than EG, because than he could be the star player of the new Team, while in EG he would be only ~the 5th best and that's why he left them? Maybe Strifcro wanted something new for whatever reason or he wanted to leave the Lair to live with his family/girlfriend/etc. or something else like that. You wouldn't know because you are not close with them.
Maybe the pretty unknown Fnatic players gave up on sc2 and that's why they got dropped. Maybe Fenix, the IM all killer in the GSTL, thought he could join a Korean Team (just speculations) (btw, Fenix has proven that he was a great foreign player in 2011).
Why exactly did MyM, a big Team themselve, hire TT1? wouldn't that contradict what you say?
It's not a simple A or B, it's not black and white, there are a ton more factors. Pls, if you don't work for a esport Team and you aren't a player than you just don't know what exactly is going on. Yes, you can assume that high ROI is always better and important and you can assume that players with high ROI are less likly going to get dropped, but it's definitely not the only thing that matters.
And I never even talked about why Teams hires players with high ROI, i talk about the dropping of players and their "replacing". Incontrol himself said that their is no simple #Teamplayer line which you mustn't cross and if you do you immediately have to fire someone else.
On April 01 2012 05:36 Hardigan wrote: What about the explanation that Axslav would be better of in an other Team than EG, because than he could be the star player of the new Team, while in EG he would be only ~the 5th best and that's why he left them? Maybe Strifcro wanted something new for whatever reason or he wanted to leave the Lair to live with his family/girlfriend/etc. or something else like that. You wouldn't know because you are not close with them.
Axslav said in this interview that he was dropped. Furthermore, if you read the announcement by EG it clearly says that both Strifecro and Axslav were let go: "Evil Geniuses ultimately decided as a team and company to part ways with both players."
Maybe the pretty unknown Fnatic players gave up on sc2 and that's why they got dropped. Maybe Fenix, the IM all killer in the GSTL, thought he could join a Korean Team (just speculations) (btw, Fenix has proven that he was a great foreign player in 2011).
QXC all-killed IM not Fenix (Fenix joined IM). Fenix had great results in 2010, not in 2011. If a player gives up on SC2 he's guaranteed to produce no results for his team. His dismissal will still fit into the paradigm I described earlier.
Why exactly did MyM, a big Team themselve, hire TT1? wouldn't that contradict what you say?
TT1 joined mTw not MYM. Their SC2 lineup is far inferior to that of Fnatic's. They may be a big team overall, but their focus on SC2 is small compared to that of Fnatic, EG, or Complexity. It's a step down for him and doesn't contradict what I said.
It's not a simple A or B, it's not black and white, there are a ton more factors. Pls, if you don't work for a esport Team and you aren't a player than you just don't know what exactly is going on. Yes, you can assume that high ROI is always better and important and you can assume that players with high ROI are less likly going to get dropped, but it's definitely not the only thing that matters.
I listed over a dozen examples where ROI explains which players were acquired and which were dropped. There are a few exceptions out there, but in general it is as simple as A or B and it is black and white.
And I never even talked about why Teams hires players with high ROI, i talk about the dropping of players and their "replacing". Incontrol himself said that their is no simple #Teamplayer line which you mustn't cross and if you do you immediately have to fire someone else.
So basically you agree with me that a major foreign team will pick up a player based on either results or personality yet you disagree that these factors determine whether or not a team will renew a player's contract? How does that make any sense?
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
Yay for speculation based off of two cases.
As much as he's being a sensationalist about two cases, he's probably right. Lets see how many foreigners vs how many Koreans coL has a year from now.
lol. None of you guys even see the big picture. Let's see how many foreigners vs how many Koreans are in professional SC2 a year from now. Skill gap seems to be widening over time.
On March 31 2012 02:43 OpticalPhonon wrote: With all these Korean acquisitions the message that Complexity is sending to its Western players is pretty clear: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Very dramatic, but also very untrue. do some research please
Well, both Fnatic and EG have added Koreans while dropping foreigners so why should Complexity be any different? In what world does it make sense for Complexity to field what is essentially two full teams? Would anyone be surprised if in a few months from now the Complexity roster consisted of four Koreans and a couple of foreigners who are fan favourites?
I hardly think that Teams are dropping foreigner players just to fill up the place with a Korean. There are a ton of factors for such a decision that only the Teams themselves know.
I just gave you two examples where major teams have dropped foreigners while acquiring Koreans, so I don't understand why you would believe that this isn't happening.
As for there being "a ton of factors" for choosing to keep a player, I disagree. If you're a major foreign team there are really only two factors to consider: (1) Results, and (2) Personality. Either of these are marketable (i.e. can get sponsorship money) and make keeping a player worthwhile.
How on earth do you know the exact reasons (and i mean the unofficial ones)? And I stand by my stand that there are a lot more factores than only two. I think SirScoots talked about it in a spezial episode (forgot the name).
If you look at which players EG and Fnatic have added and dropped over the last year you see a pattern emerge: they recruit players with results and/or personality while dropping players without them.
EG Added: Puma (results), Huk (results and personality), and JYP (results) Dropped: Axslav (very little results, some personality but EG already has a lot of players to fill that role) and Strifecro (no results or personality)
Fnatic Added: Rain (results), Moon (results and personality), Alive (results), and ToD (some promising results and personality) Dropped: TT1 (no results), Fenix (no results in 2011), KawaiiRice (no results), IefNaij (no results), IeZaeL (no results), and Roberto (no results) Exception: Sen has great results and a great personality but left to join the Gama Bears so he could stay and compete in Taiwan. So he wasn't dropped, he simply got a better offer from a different team.
There seems to be only two other major foreign teams to go the Korean route to get results based players: Complexity (their last four acquisitions) and Liquid (their last three acquisitions). As Liquid's business model may be a bit different than that of the other teams the pattern I described above may not hold for them. However, for Complexity it should hold and now that they have a massive roster we're simply waiting to hear which players will get dropped.
Finally, you bring up SirScoots but you must be paraphrasing him out of context because he has said numerous times on Live on Three that EG will not recruit a player that they feel can't get results immediately. Furthermore, when responding to criticism as to why EG would keep a player like Incontrol he has continuously brought up the ROI that teams can get on players with a personality. Aside from results and personality, I have never heard him mention any other reason why EG would pick up or keep a player for an established game like SC2.
top2 PTSL#2 ...and i won every single clan war (No results? xD) I left the team because there is no more 2v2s in important leagues ;o~
Recently i qualifed for The Gathering 2012 , but im not going sadly O.O~
Ok so this is kind of off topic but I saw you guys talking about Fenix not having results on 2011. In 2011 he: Beat Heart, clide, luvsic, thestc and MC in the GSTL Won WCG Peru Won WCG Panamerican tournament against dKiller Beat Gretorp, Drewbie, slush and Sheth at MLG Colombus. Placed 11th at a tourney with Koreans. Went 6-3 in NASL 1: Beating Kiwikkaki, grubby, vibe, artosis, sheth and TLO. Beat Vibe and white-ra in NASL 2 before leaving due to lag in Peru Went 3-3 in his WCG group, finishing 3rd in his group. His leaving of fnatic was his own choice, he upgraded to IM, he was not "dropped."
On April 04 2012 10:43 Luepert wrote: Ok so this is kind of off topic but I saw you guys talking about Fenix not having results on 2011. In 2011 he: Beat Heart, clide, luvsic, thestc and MC in the GSTL Won WCG Peru Won WCG Panamerican tournament against dKiller Beat Gretorp, Drewbie, slush and Sheth at MLG Colombus. Placed 11th at a tourney with Koreans. Went 6-3 in NASL 1: Beating Kiwikkaki, grubby, vibe, artosis, sheth and TLO. Beat Vibe and white-ra in NASL 2 before leaving due to lag in Peru Went 3-3 in his WCG group, finishing 3rd in his group. His leaving of fnatic was his own choice, he upgraded to IM, he was not "dropped."
On April 04 2012 10:43 Luepert wrote: Ok so this is kind of off topic but I saw you guys talking about Fenix not having results on 2011. In 2011 he: Beat Heart, clide, luvsic, thestc and MC in the GSTL Won WCG Peru Won WCG Panamerican tournament against dKiller Beat Gretorp, Drewbie, slush and Sheth at MLG Colombus. Placed 11th at a tourney with Koreans. Went 6-3 in NASL 1: Beating Kiwikkaki, grubby, vibe, artosis, sheth and TLO. Beat Vibe and white-ra in NASL 2 before leaving due to lag in Peru Went 3-3 in his WCG group, finishing 3rd in his group. His leaving of fnatic was his own choice, he upgraded to IM, he was not "dropped."
Incorrect
I'm sorry, I guess I was mistaken on the last one. All the statistics are correct however. (if liquipedia is) However, I still think IM is an upgrade over Fnatic for him at the time as Fnatic had no house and he was allowed to live in the IM house. Also IM in general has proved more successful than fnatic in most events as well. It is a major accomplishment being only one of very few non-Koreans to join a Korean team.
top2 PTSL#2 ...and i won every single clan war (No results? xD) I left the team because there is no more 2v2s in important leagues ;o~
Recently i qualifed for The Gathering 2012 , but im not going sadly O.O~
There doesn't seem to be any audience for 2v2 in SC2 so "no results" doesn't mean you're a bad player it just means that there's nowhere for you to compete to get results (which is essentially what you've written).
On April 04 2012 10:43 Luepert wrote: Ok so this is kind of off topic but I saw you guys talking about Fenix not having results on 2011. In 2011 he: Beat Heart, clide, luvsic, thestc and MC in the GSTL Won WCG Peru Won WCG Panamerican tournament against dKiller Beat Gretorp, Drewbie, slush and Sheth at MLG Colombus. Placed 11th at a tourney with Koreans. Went 6-3 in NASL 1: Beating Kiwikkaki, grubby, vibe, artosis, sheth and TLO. Beat Vibe and white-ra in NASL 2 before leaving due to lag in Peru Went 3-3 in his WCG group, finishing 3rd in his group. His leaving of fnatic was his own choice, he upgraded to IM, he was not "dropped."
If Fenix was a newcomer to the scene I'd call those results very promising but not great (aside from leaving the NASL mid-season two -- that is just bad). However, in 2010 he won an IEM event, finished 3rd at Dreamhack and, according to SC2earnings.com, made over $20,000. In 2011, he made about one-tenth of that amount and didn't place in the top 8 at any major event. Calling his 2011 performance mediocre is being generous, but when compared to his 2010 results it's very poor.
Concerning Fenix joining IM: It's easy for us to romanticize how amazing it would be to join a Korean team like IM. However, I can't imagine any player on a major foreign team sees it that way: lower (if any) salary and, for most players on these Korean teams, there's no money to send you to events. To go from being an IEM champion and getting 3rd at Dreamhack to not even being able to attend an IEM or a Dreamhack is not an upgrade.
EPT
9)
.......when's the last time a foreigner got signed?! 
![[image loading]](http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7025/571679dcfbc2422fb1437e3.jpg)
Get in there you handsome beast
