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Breadth of Gameplay in SC2 - Page 95

Forum Index > SC2 General
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NEW IN-GAME CHANNEL: FRB
IronManSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2119 Posts
April 04 2012 05:38 GMT
#1881
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15
SC2 Mapmaker || twitter: @ironmansc || Ohana & Mech Depot || 3x TLMC finalist || www.twitch.tv/sc2mapstream
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
April 04 2012 05:46 GMT
#1882
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
JackDT
Profile Joined January 2012
724 Posts
April 04 2012 05:47 GMT
#1883
The first question has to be: how do we encourage tournaments to (or at least A tournament) to try some experimental maps in a tourney with a real prize pool? That's the only way to know if any particular changes really make for a better game.
Gengar
Profile Joined March 2011
United States13 Posts
April 04 2012 05:48 GMT
#1884
Great Idea, Great Post. Well thought out and executed. Of course I skimmed it the first time and am ready to go back and sink my teeth into it but still, I like the depth and could really see this working.
Bijan
Profile Joined October 2010
United States286 Posts
April 04 2012 06:00 GMT
#1885
Do you think some of the same effects could be achieved by simply reducing how many minerals are in a patch and how much gas are in a geyser?

This would keep the mineral collection rate the same keeping much of the strategies and scouting techniques mostly the same (at least in early-game) but would still force earlier and more frequent expansions.

It still wouldn't be quite the same since having a lesser collection rate could promote having more than 3 bases mining at a time but it would make the game spread out across the map more quickly and thus encourage smaller engagements.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17750 Posts
April 04 2012 06:16 GMT
#1886
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.

Maybe Day[9] could use these maps for a funday monday?
"Expert" mods4ever.com
OldManSenex
Profile Joined June 2011
United States130 Posts
April 04 2012 07:29 GMT
#1887
Hey folks, to answer a couple questions:

There's a tournament being organized right now featuring all FRB Maps, a $150 prize pool and players like coL.GanZi, VileIllusion, iS.Axslav, and many more! Those who are interested should head on over to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324001 for the full player list, map pool and schedule. The players start their matches on April 6th, and the live broadcast of the Round of 16 will be on April 13th at 8pm EST on www.twitch.tv/pullsc. I hope you all tune in!

Day9 doing this as a Funday Monday is an excellent idea, and I recommend everyone send him a quick e-mail stating your support. Many in the thread, myself included, have already done so, and with enough popular support I think we could not only get a really great spotlight on the FRB variant, but also an extremely funny and interesting funday monday! E-mail feedback@day9.tv to encourage Day9 to use the idea.

I'm glad to see so many new faces in the thread! If you have questions you think might have been answered but aren't sure feel free to ask them and I'll answer as many as I can.

Oh, and in a shameless bit of self promotion, check out www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex to see casts and analysis of FRB games. If you like what you see be sure to subscribe. :D
For FRB shoutcasts and analysis check out www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
April 04 2012 07:55 GMT
#1888
To add to that, those of you with Twitter, please give @FRBGrandTourney a follow and mention us if you tweet to any community figures! Any additional exposure that we can get will do nothing but benefit the growth of the scene. We started this tournament as a community-based, masters league tournament with maybe a few GMs if we were lucky, and now at least 12 of our 16 spots are filled by players on official teams!

And to plug our other caster (Senex's YT is above), also check out youtube.com/PullSC where you can see more FRB games.
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
UniQ.eu
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden82 Posts
April 04 2012 09:17 GMT
#1889
On April 04 2012 16:29 OldManSenex wrote:
Hey folks, to answer a couple questions:

There's a tournament being organized right now featuring all FRB Maps, a $150 prize pool and players like coL.GanZi, VileIllusion, iS.Axslav, and many more! Those who are interested should head on over to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324001 for the full player list, map pool and schedule. The players start their matches on April 6th, and the live broadcast of the Round of 16 will be on April 13th at 8pm EST on www.twitch.tv/pullsc. I hope you all tune in!

Day9 doing this as a Funday Monday is an excellent idea, and I recommend everyone send him a quick e-mail stating your support. Many in the thread, myself included, have already done so, and with enough popular support I think we could not only get a really great spotlight on the FRB variant, but also an extremely funny and interesting funday monday! E-mail feedback@day9.tv to encourage Day9 to use the idea.

I'm glad to see so many new faces in the thread! If you have questions you think might have been answered but aren't sure feel free to ask them and I'll answer as many as I can.

Oh, and in a shameless bit of self promotion, check out www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex to see casts and analysis of FRB games. If you like what you see be sure to subscribe. :D


So there will be no vods or live stream until April 13th?
OldManSenex
Profile Joined June 2011
United States130 Posts
April 04 2012 09:49 GMT
#1890
For the FRB Grant Tournament yes, the first live broadcast we'll be doing will be on April 13th, after which the tournament VoD's will be put up as quickly as they can be edited and uploaded.

Myself (Senex) and Pull will also be doing the casting for the FRB Grand Tournament, so if you're interested in seeing other FRB games we've casted and analysed check out www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex and www.youtube.com/pullsc

Enjoy!
For FRB shoutcasts and analysis check out www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
April 04 2012 09:53 GMT
#1891
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.

I don't think anyone but djWHEAT actually read the thread. They're just throwing around baseless ideas about why it would or wouldn't work. It's nice to know that they're all open to the idea, though, it just needs the correct implementation.

Looking forward to the FRB tournament :D
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
April 04 2012 12:52 GMT
#1892
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.


Well. Idra did say that he'd skimmed the thread and if it does what it's supposed to (promote smaller engagements and a higher skillcap for the pros) then he endorsed its intention.
"Mudkip"
FreudianTrip
Profile Joined July 2011
Switzerland1983 Posts
April 04 2012 13:06 GMT
#1893
On April 04 2012 18:53 Ruscour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.

I don't think anyone but djWHEAT actually read the thread. They're just throwing around baseless ideas about why it would or wouldn't work. It's nice to know that they're all open to the idea, though, it just needs the correct implementation.

Looking forward to the FRB tournament :D


Summary:

PainUser: Didn't read it. Whined about IMBA. Said some dumb shit about Mules and building a million CCs.
Idra: Skimmed it, said it's intentions are interesting and if it actually achieved it's goals would make for a more skillful game and reward players with good mechanics and high APM as the skirmishes (sp?) would have to be controlled well while keeping macro up. But he's also not sure whether it would achieve the goals it set out to.
InControl: Skimmed it. Said it was impossible, shut down entire discussion. Continued to say couldn't have different mineral starting bases such as having a normal 8m2g map and a 6m1g map in the same tournament.
Wheat: Read it, brought up the idea of ProMods, got shutdown.

I turned off before the wrap-up as they announced phone calls and the people that call in are fucking retarded so I may have missed something. Feel free to add if you wish.
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
April 04 2012 15:33 GMT
#1894
I think if all the hosts of ITG would have had enough time to read the entire idea they might have had much more refined perspective on the issue.

I can understand what InControl said in that, the pro gamers can't really dedicate a lot of time with this, since they actually need to focus on practicing for tournaments so they can make a living. Its kind of natural for them to be skeptical, but it would still be nice if they tried to see the problem from all points of view, and maybe even give some feedback.

I like how Wheat and IdrA where really open to the idea and what it could achieve, it raised some awareness, and hopefully more and more players step forward and talk about this trough various means. With some luck maybe a couple more will participate in the tournaments for 6m1hyg.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
April 04 2012 15:33 GMT
#1895
Wanted to add some replays. Entertaining
PvZ iPAndi vs actulydolan http://drop.sc/153582
PvZ iPAndi vs coLgoswser http://drop.sc/153591
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
April 04 2012 15:41 GMT
#1896
On April 04 2012 22:06 FreudianTrip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2012 18:53 Ruscour wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.

I don't think anyone but djWHEAT actually read the thread. They're just throwing around baseless ideas about why it would or wouldn't work. It's nice to know that they're all open to the idea, though, it just needs the correct implementation.

Looking forward to the FRB tournament :D


Summary:

PainUser: Didn't read it. Whined about IMBA. Said some dumb shit about Mules and building a million CCs.
Idra: Skimmed it, said it's intentions are interesting and if it actually achieved it's goals would make for a more skillful game and reward players with good mechanics and high APM as the skirmishes (sp?) would have to be controlled well while keeping macro up. But he's also not sure whether it would achieve the goals it set out to.
InControl: Skimmed it. Said it was impossible, shut down entire discussion. Continued to say couldn't have different mineral starting bases such as having a normal 8m2g map and a 6m1g map in the same tournament.
Wheat: Read it, brought up the idea of ProMods, got shutdown.

I turned off before the wrap-up as they announced phone calls and the people that call in are fucking retarded so I may have missed something. Feel free to add if you wish.


To be fair Incontrol made a really strong point not related to Blizzard's dictatorial control on SC2 and their ability to flat out shut down anything they disagree with in major competitions. FBR is an amazing initiative and something that in a perfect world would be amazing for the game. So would LAN, re-designing protoss, making Bnet better but its not in our hands to do any of those things on anything but a small hardcore community level. Maybe if FBR takes off in an enormous way and gets the endorsment of every single major community member out there (I'm talking Day9, Artosis, all the teams, all the major competitions, everyone) we could look at forcing Blizzard's hand but that is probably another "perfect world" situation.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-04 15:51:26
April 04 2012 15:51 GMT
#1897
On April 05 2012 00:41 Klonere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2012 22:06 FreudianTrip wrote:
On April 04 2012 18:53 Ruscour wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.

I don't think anyone but djWHEAT actually read the thread. They're just throwing around baseless ideas about why it would or wouldn't work. It's nice to know that they're all open to the idea, though, it just needs the correct implementation.

Looking forward to the FRB tournament :D


Summary:

PainUser: Didn't read it. Whined about IMBA. Said some dumb shit about Mules and building a million CCs.
Idra: Skimmed it, said it's intentions are interesting and if it actually achieved it's goals would make for a more skillful game and reward players with good mechanics and high APM as the skirmishes (sp?) would have to be controlled well while keeping macro up. But he's also not sure whether it would achieve the goals it set out to.
InControl: Skimmed it. Said it was impossible, shut down entire discussion. Continued to say couldn't have different mineral starting bases such as having a normal 8m2g map and a 6m1g map in the same tournament.
Wheat: Read it, brought up the idea of ProMods, got shutdown.

I turned off before the wrap-up as they announced phone calls and the people that call in are fucking retarded so I may have missed something. Feel free to add if you wish.


To be fair Incontrol made a really strong point not related to Blizzard's dictatorial control on SC2 and their ability to flat out shut down anything they disagree with in major competitions. FBR is an amazing initiative and something that in a perfect world would be amazing for the game. So would LAN, re-designing protoss, making Bnet better but its not in our hands to do any of those things on anything but a small hardcore community level. Maybe if FBR takes off in an enormous way and gets the endorsment of every single major community member out there (I'm talking Day9, Artosis, all the teams, all the major competitions, everyone) we could look at forcing Blizzard's hand but that is probably another "perfect world" situation.

There would be no pro broodwar and sc2 we know today if people didnt take things into their own hands. Because SC2 is actually in total control from Blizzard its even more important to force the issue before its too late (if its not already).
Stork[gm]
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
April 04 2012 15:57 GMT
#1898
On April 05 2012 00:51 bgx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2012 00:41 Klonere wrote:
On April 04 2012 22:06 FreudianTrip wrote:
On April 04 2012 18:53 Ruscour wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:46 Grumbels wrote:
On April 04 2012 14:38 IronManSC wrote:
Inside the Game with DJwheat, painuser, idra, and incontrol discuss FRB!

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/313841780

Start at 32:15

I wasn't really impressed by their discussion, I gather they didn't even read the thread. It's unfortunate that our 'betters' who discuss these issues for us on talk shows don't really have the time to be too involved. I had thought that if an idea like this would catch on it would have to happen through ITG, SotG, D9D type shows, but I suppose they can only really start to promote and discuss such things once there is a professional reason for them to. For instance, once GSL starts to consider using these maps and it becomes a professional necessity to start investigating it.

I don't think anyone but djWHEAT actually read the thread. They're just throwing around baseless ideas about why it would or wouldn't work. It's nice to know that they're all open to the idea, though, it just needs the correct implementation.

Looking forward to the FRB tournament :D


Summary:

PainUser: Didn't read it. Whined about IMBA. Said some dumb shit about Mules and building a million CCs.
Idra: Skimmed it, said it's intentions are interesting and if it actually achieved it's goals would make for a more skillful game and reward players with good mechanics and high APM as the skirmishes (sp?) would have to be controlled well while keeping macro up. But he's also not sure whether it would achieve the goals it set out to.
InControl: Skimmed it. Said it was impossible, shut down entire discussion. Continued to say couldn't have different mineral starting bases such as having a normal 8m2g map and a 6m1g map in the same tournament.
Wheat: Read it, brought up the idea of ProMods, got shutdown.

I turned off before the wrap-up as they announced phone calls and the people that call in are fucking retarded so I may have missed something. Feel free to add if you wish.


To be fair Incontrol made a really strong point not related to Blizzard's dictatorial control on SC2 and their ability to flat out shut down anything they disagree with in major competitions. FBR is an amazing initiative and something that in a perfect world would be amazing for the game. So would LAN, re-designing protoss, making Bnet better but its not in our hands to do any of those things on anything but a small hardcore community level. Maybe if FBR takes off in an enormous way and gets the endorsment of every single major community member out there (I'm talking Day9, Artosis, all the teams, all the major competitions, everyone) we could look at forcing Blizzard's hand but that is probably another "perfect world" situation.

There would be no pro broodwar and sc2 we know today if people didnt take things into their own hands. Because SC2 is actually in total control from Blizzard its even more important to force the issue before its too late (if its not already).


I can see the tiniest glimmer of hope in the fact that Blizzard seems to have gotten the message RE: maps in ladder and tournaments. Still I see this being an extraordinary feat to accomplish. I agree on the fact that we need to force the issue though.....
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-05 15:14:54
April 04 2012 16:08 GMT
#1899
On April 05 2012 00:33 Destructicon wrote:
I think if all the hosts of ITG would have had enough time to read the entire idea they might have had much more refined perspective on the issue.

I can understand what InControl said in that, the pro gamers can't really dedicate a lot of time with this, since they actually need to focus on practicing for tournaments so they can make a living. Its kind of natural for them to be skeptical, but it would still be nice if they tried to see the problem from all points of view, and maybe even give some feedback.

I like how Wheat and IdrA where really open to the idea and what it could achieve, it raised some awareness, and hopefully more and more players step forward and talk about this trough various means. With some luck maybe a couple more will participate in the tournaments for 6m1hyg.

I don't think it's true that a pro gamer's job is to merely practice and show up for tournaments. We've already gone through several crisis with this: Naniwa, Stephano and Idra have a responsibility to the tournament they play in and can't just throw games when they feel like it without any repercussions. InControl can be a member of a professional gaming team without any good results because he is marketable, a face for the community and so on - all in his capacity as a pro gamer.

I think it would be good for the community if pro players would actively participate in discussions about the future of the game. Obviously they have to prioritize practicing for tournaments and they're free to neglect the issue if they want to, but what I dislike is the blanket statement that no pro gamer will ever spend time on something like this. Not only is it not true (pro gamers signed up for the 6m tournament), it also ignores how it's especially the pro community that would benefit from a better game.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
April 04 2012 16:13 GMT
#1900
I'm actually pretty surprised by the turnout of the tournament. I hadn't expected pros to be so willing to try it out.
all's fair in love and melodies
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