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On March 13 2012 19:40 skeldark wrote:
blizzard proudly announce that you can resize a window ...soon.
Haha, this made my day.
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On March 13 2012 19:27 InVerno wrote:At least, in the arcade mode description, replays are mentioned Show nested quote +One of the most significant additions will be the all new Arcade feature which includes improved custom game visibility, ratings, reviews, game instructions I know its reviews, but in my language translation, its "replays". I think there's a possibility of shared replays, and not so remote from what i know. Hoping for ClanSupport before hots, its simply want something you cant have, and you know very well. But the ArcadeMode its not only a fix, its a huge change in the UI, from this pic i can see it clearly + Show Spoiler +So it can contain a enourmous quantity of features, and atm we dont know precisely what. I think we have to wait more before complain.
Where did you get that picture ?
Is it real ? :o
edit : nvm, found it.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:04 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:25 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 16:08 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:00 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:55 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:45 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:12 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]
yeah you were, you were saying how disgusting it is for people to be happy with this lol. What's your problem? I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap. ^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. That is how unwanted things get changed; by showing discontent. So what reaction do you want out of people exactly? Improvements are being made and you want everyone to be mad? That doesn't make much sense now does it. Nobody is happy it took so long, people are happy it will be patched at all. Do people have to react?Does an improvement that is long overdue and simplistic, warrant such a praise? If people must react, they can express their frustration about the slow progression over something simple. Do people have to react? What kind of silly question is that? How exactly can you NOT react in some way or form? Something should go through your head when you read this, that something is what you call a reaction. Again, people aren't praising it because its this late, people are just happy it happens at all. Oh no i meant react as in posting, not the actual definition. On March 13 2012 16:00 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:12 blade55555 wrote:On March 13 2012 15:11 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:01 windsupernova wrote:
[quote]
Are we reading the same thread?
Nobody is saying that kind of stuff. But there is no use in bitching about the past. Should they have released a better BNET at launch? Yeah, but unfortunately they didn't so any step forward is a win in my book.Do they still have a lot of work to do? Of course and I don't think anybody is saying that BNET is all that it could be atm.
Its fine that you think the way you do but don't bash people for not sharing your exact mindset Oh Im bashing people now? Oh ok I see Im the bad guy right? Oh sorry people. All hail blizzard! yeah you were, you were saying how disgusting it is for people to be happy with this lol. What's your problem? I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap. ^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. By showing discontent, it puts blizzard pressure to change their ways. And while im posting this i might as well post my disappointment that blizzard has not done what steam did with dota 2; incorporating LAN in a way that it doesn't hurt their sales. There's a difference with being happy with an improvement and being happy with the status quo. You're assuming that people are now just going "Hey! Now everything's fine." People aren't. People are happy that these much needed improvements are here, but - and this is key - we still want the other key improvements. No one here is saying "I'm completely satisfied." In short, the UI thread will be updated to not include the changes that Blizzard's offered, but it will still be there, and the movement will still be there. Also, people not being happy with the patch would "hurt esports" (god, do we really have to resort to this silliness of "X is hurting esports"???). If nobody was happy at all, Blizzard would see that, throw their arms up in the air and go "oh well, listening to them didn't accomplish anything, guess there's no point in doing these improvements, we might as well continue doing things just in terms of what we think gets $$$ instead of what we think these people are telling us. Of course, this is an extreme, but only running counterpoise to your extreme that you provided. But let's be real - no one here is adopting either extreme, and people, while happy with the improvement/the sign that Blizzard is listening, are not happy to the point of being satisfied. No i'm assuming people take abit of positivity out of this event but i worded the post wrong. People should be abit more aggressive on their stance. Critisizing the parts where they feel frustrated and nothing more, no compliments until these shenanigans get sorted out. All this gimmick by blizzard happened because the community let it happen ( by 'let it happen', i mean not being critical about it enough). By being aggressive as a community, it shows that we are not a pushover and want to be treated with certain level of standards. I agree that people should maintain their criticism, but I don't necessarily think these changes are due to the degree of aggressiveness. People have been feeling these sentiments since the launch of the game (perhaps even earlier, in the beta). If anything, emotion would fade over time by now, but at the very least, it doesn't make sense that people, out of any time, would be suddenly more angry now, and that this anger led to the UI thread/reddit/b.net posts. Instead, I think that the big change was due to the organization and unification of our frustration into a single and therefore far more potent movement. Those recent threads on b.net and the like. As long as we maintain the momentum behind those threads, I think we're on a good path. Ok when i say frustration, i dont mean anger, but discontent. And when i say discontent, i mean a feeling of injustice. And a feeling of injustice does not fade away over time. pity, then you will live a very, very unhappy life of feeling constantly cheated and expecting others to do everything for you. blizzard is doing what blizzard can
This notion is completely absurd.
It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a three course meal. The appetizer comes out sort of late, but it's ok. Unfortunately, it takes them an hour to bring you silverware so when you finally get a spoon, you're thankful for it?
The reality is that people are leaving the restaurant, and many have already left. That doesn't just mean casuals. That means monobattle tournaments beat major championships. And with LoL taking over in a big way and DotA 2 on the horizon, it may not look good by the time LoV is out. You don't have to be displeased because of it, but being happy for the bare minimum isn't really rational consumer behavior when you've got other options who do everything so much better. These are such minor changes, I'd expect the average response to be "Let's wait and see what else you have."
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i've personally never been concerned regarding the interface... but hopefully this will help appease some of the tougher crowd!
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Will this allow custom games on the second page to fill up? I doubt it... Will more people come back to b.net? It already takes forever searching for ladder games unless it's at the prime time.
The whole design of the UI needs to be re-done.. so much wasted space. The whole chat windows just feel so awakrd. I'd prefer one giant box with everything through it a la wc3.
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This patch looks like shit maybe I don't understand it but it seems far from huge. Huge would be shared replays. QQ
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So....basically, that will be the beta AI for HotS. Perhaps, it's a bit late, but certainly about time to improve on those fronts.
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What is the whole purpose behind the "big" change of custom games / modding / presentation windows when the chat system itself remains untouched? ...
I can see what you are doing kotick =)
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On March 13 2012 22:00 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 17:04 Roblin wrote:On March 13 2012 16:25 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 16:08 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:00 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:55 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:45 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:
[quote]
I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap.
^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. That is how unwanted things get changed; by showing discontent. So what reaction do you want out of people exactly? Improvements are being made and you want everyone to be mad? That doesn't make much sense now does it. Nobody is happy it took so long, people are happy it will be patched at all. Do people have to react?Does an improvement that is long overdue and simplistic, warrant such a praise? If people must react, they can express their frustration about the slow progression over something simple. Do people have to react? What kind of silly question is that? How exactly can you NOT react in some way or form? Something should go through your head when you read this, that something is what you call a reaction. Again, people aren't praising it because its this late, people are just happy it happens at all. Oh no i meant react as in posting, not the actual definition. On March 13 2012 16:00 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:12 blade55555 wrote:On March 13 2012 15:11 ArcLiTe wrote:
[quote]
Oh Im bashing people now? Oh ok I see Im the bad guy right? Oh sorry people. All hail blizzard!
yeah you were, you were saying how disgusting it is for people to be happy with this lol. What's your problem? I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap. ^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. By showing discontent, it puts blizzard pressure to change their ways. And while im posting this i might as well post my disappointment that blizzard has not done what steam did with dota 2; incorporating LAN in a way that it doesn't hurt their sales. There's a difference with being happy with an improvement and being happy with the status quo. You're assuming that people are now just going "Hey! Now everything's fine." People aren't. People are happy that these much needed improvements are here, but - and this is key - we still want the other key improvements. No one here is saying "I'm completely satisfied." In short, the UI thread will be updated to not include the changes that Blizzard's offered, but it will still be there, and the movement will still be there. Also, people not being happy with the patch would "hurt esports" (god, do we really have to resort to this silliness of "X is hurting esports"???). If nobody was happy at all, Blizzard would see that, throw their arms up in the air and go "oh well, listening to them didn't accomplish anything, guess there's no point in doing these improvements, we might as well continue doing things just in terms of what we think gets $$$ instead of what we think these people are telling us. Of course, this is an extreme, but only running counterpoise to your extreme that you provided. But let's be real - no one here is adopting either extreme, and people, while happy with the improvement/the sign that Blizzard is listening, are not happy to the point of being satisfied. No i'm assuming people take abit of positivity out of this event but i worded the post wrong. People should be abit more aggressive on their stance. Critisizing the parts where they feel frustrated and nothing more, no compliments until these shenanigans get sorted out. All this gimmick by blizzard happened because the community let it happen ( by 'let it happen', i mean not being critical about it enough). By being aggressive as a community, it shows that we are not a pushover and want to be treated with certain level of standards. I agree that people should maintain their criticism, but I don't necessarily think these changes are due to the degree of aggressiveness. People have been feeling these sentiments since the launch of the game (perhaps even earlier, in the beta). If anything, emotion would fade over time by now, but at the very least, it doesn't make sense that people, out of any time, would be suddenly more angry now, and that this anger led to the UI thread/reddit/b.net posts. Instead, I think that the big change was due to the organization and unification of our frustration into a single and therefore far more potent movement. Those recent threads on b.net and the like. As long as we maintain the momentum behind those threads, I think we're on a good path. Ok when i say frustration, i dont mean anger, but discontent. And when i say discontent, i mean a feeling of injustice. And a feeling of injustice does not fade away over time. pity, then you will live a very, very unhappy life of feeling constantly cheated and expecting others to do everything for you. blizzard is doing what blizzard can This notion is completely absurd. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a three course meal. The appetizer comes out sort of late, but it's ok. Unfortunately, it takes them an hour to bring you silverware so when you finally get a spoon, you're thankful for it? The reality is that people are leaving the restaurant, and many have already left. That doesn't just mean casuals. That means monobattle tournaments beat major championships. And with LoL taking over in a big way and DotA 2 on the horizon, it may not look good by the time LoV is out. You don't have to be displeased because of it, but being happy for the bare minimum isn't really rational consumer behavior when you've got other options who do everything so much better.
Huh. Lol and Dota2 are completely different games; they aren't "other" options. Hell, even if you can lump them into the same bucket, the fact that Starcraft 2 supports mapmaking and the surrounding ecosystem behind makes them sufficiently different from a "what does the UI needs to provide" perspective. In any event, lol/dota2's success has comparatively little to do with the UI and more to do with dota-the-game and capitalizing on a f2p/large player base.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 13 2012 22:25 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 22:00 Jibba wrote:On March 13 2012 17:04 Roblin wrote:On March 13 2012 16:25 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 16:08 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:00 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:55 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:45 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:
[quote]
^This
People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way:
If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date.
That is how unwanted things get changed; by showing discontent. So what reaction do you want out of people exactly? Improvements are being made and you want everyone to be mad? That doesn't make much sense now does it. Nobody is happy it took so long, people are happy it will be patched at all. Do people have to react?Does an improvement that is long overdue and simplistic, warrant such a praise? If people must react, they can express their frustration about the slow progression over something simple. Do people have to react? What kind of silly question is that? How exactly can you NOT react in some way or form? Something should go through your head when you read this, that something is what you call a reaction. Again, people aren't praising it because its this late, people are just happy it happens at all. Oh no i meant react as in posting, not the actual definition. On March 13 2012 16:00 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:12 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]
yeah you were, you were saying how disgusting it is for people to be happy with this lol. What's your problem? I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap. ^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. By showing discontent, it puts blizzard pressure to change their ways. And while im posting this i might as well post my disappointment that blizzard has not done what steam did with dota 2; incorporating LAN in a way that it doesn't hurt their sales. There's a difference with being happy with an improvement and being happy with the status quo. You're assuming that people are now just going "Hey! Now everything's fine." People aren't. People are happy that these much needed improvements are here, but - and this is key - we still want the other key improvements. No one here is saying "I'm completely satisfied." In short, the UI thread will be updated to not include the changes that Blizzard's offered, but it will still be there, and the movement will still be there. Also, people not being happy with the patch would "hurt esports" (god, do we really have to resort to this silliness of "X is hurting esports"???). If nobody was happy at all, Blizzard would see that, throw their arms up in the air and go "oh well, listening to them didn't accomplish anything, guess there's no point in doing these improvements, we might as well continue doing things just in terms of what we think gets $$$ instead of what we think these people are telling us. Of course, this is an extreme, but only running counterpoise to your extreme that you provided. But let's be real - no one here is adopting either extreme, and people, while happy with the improvement/the sign that Blizzard is listening, are not happy to the point of being satisfied. No i'm assuming people take abit of positivity out of this event but i worded the post wrong. People should be abit more aggressive on their stance. Critisizing the parts where they feel frustrated and nothing more, no compliments until these shenanigans get sorted out. All this gimmick by blizzard happened because the community let it happen ( by 'let it happen', i mean not being critical about it enough). By being aggressive as a community, it shows that we are not a pushover and want to be treated with certain level of standards. I agree that people should maintain their criticism, but I don't necessarily think these changes are due to the degree of aggressiveness. People have been feeling these sentiments since the launch of the game (perhaps even earlier, in the beta). If anything, emotion would fade over time by now, but at the very least, it doesn't make sense that people, out of any time, would be suddenly more angry now, and that this anger led to the UI thread/reddit/b.net posts. Instead, I think that the big change was due to the organization and unification of our frustration into a single and therefore far more potent movement. Those recent threads on b.net and the like. As long as we maintain the momentum behind those threads, I think we're on a good path. Ok when i say frustration, i dont mean anger, but discontent. And when i say discontent, i mean a feeling of injustice. And a feeling of injustice does not fade away over time. pity, then you will live a very, very unhappy life of feeling constantly cheated and expecting others to do everything for you. blizzard is doing what blizzard can This notion is completely absurd. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a three course meal. The appetizer comes out sort of late, but it's ok. Unfortunately, it takes them an hour to bring you silverware so when you finally get a spoon, you're thankful for it? The reality is that people are leaving the restaurant, and many have already left. That doesn't just mean casuals. That means monobattle tournaments beat major championships. And with LoL taking over in a big way and DotA 2 on the horizon, it may not look good by the time LoV is out. You don't have to be displeased because of it, but being happy for the bare minimum isn't really rational consumer behavior when you've got other options who do everything so much better. Huh. Lol and Dota2 are completely different games; they aren't "other" options. Hell, even if you can lump them into the same bucket, the fact that Starcraft 2 supports mapmaking and the surrounding ecosystem behind makes them sufficiently different from a "what does the UI needs to provide" perspective. In any event, lol/dota2's success has comparatively little to do with the UI and more to do with dota-the-game and capitalizing on a f2p/large player base. They're going after the same community and the same sponsorship dollars. A year and a half ago you could've said "Halo and SC2 don't compete", except now Halo is on life support and SC2 is the new darling of MLG, temporarily. Those games' success is in large part due to being a MOBA and in LoL's case, free, but they also both do a much, much better job of creating a community within the game and in DotA's case, it comes primed for tournament support. I still see no indication that Blizzard is particularly interested in ESPORTS, aside from a few blurbs on the website, whereas DotA 2 has big, bright flashing lights that say "competitive gamers come here!!!!!!" Some people just hate MOBA games which is perfectly fine, but to think there won't be a huge amount of crossover is folly. That's who Blizzard's competitors are, so when they have all the features that your games' hardcore base is crying for, turning around and offering resizable chat windows doesn't cut it nor should it.
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Hang on a minute! Is this a step closer to a LAN-esque feature! o.O
Sounds pretty good to me!
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I really hope Blizzard continues with making the UI better, I want a real Battlenet 2.0.
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This indicates HotS must be very foreseeably near:
Although this may not be ready in time for the release of patch 1.5, we do intend to have this available by the time Heart of the Swarm ships.
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On March 13 2012 23:01 figq wrote:This indicates HotS must be very foreseeably near: Show nested quote +Although this may not be ready in time for the release of patch 1.5, we do intend to have this available by the time Heart of the Swarm ships.
If by foreseeably you mean by Q3 2013, then you're probably right.
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what about balance changes ?
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On March 13 2012 22:32 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 22:25 Kambing wrote:On March 13 2012 22:00 Jibba wrote:On March 13 2012 17:04 Roblin wrote:On March 13 2012 16:25 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 16:08 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:00 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:55 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:45 Assirra wrote:
[quote]
So what reaction do you want out of people exactly?
Improvements are being made and you want everyone to be mad?
That doesn't make much sense now does it. Nobody is happy it took so long, people are happy it will be patched at all.
Do people have to react?Does an improvement that is long overdue and simplistic, warrant such a praise? If people must react, they can express their frustration about the slow progression over something simple. Do people have to react? What kind of silly question is that? How exactly can you NOT react in some way or form? Something should go through your head when you read this, that something is what you call a reaction. Again, people aren't praising it because its this late, people are just happy it happens at all. Oh no i meant react as in posting, not the actual definition. On March 13 2012 16:00 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:
[quote]
I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap.
^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. By showing discontent, it puts blizzard pressure to change their ways. And while im posting this i might as well post my disappointment that blizzard has not done what steam did with dota 2; incorporating LAN in a way that it doesn't hurt their sales. There's a difference with being happy with an improvement and being happy with the status quo. You're assuming that people are now just going "Hey! Now everything's fine." People aren't. People are happy that these much needed improvements are here, but - and this is key - we still want the other key improvements. No one here is saying "I'm completely satisfied." In short, the UI thread will be updated to not include the changes that Blizzard's offered, but it will still be there, and the movement will still be there. Also, people not being happy with the patch would "hurt esports" (god, do we really have to resort to this silliness of "X is hurting esports"???). If nobody was happy at all, Blizzard would see that, throw their arms up in the air and go "oh well, listening to them didn't accomplish anything, guess there's no point in doing these improvements, we might as well continue doing things just in terms of what we think gets $$$ instead of what we think these people are telling us. Of course, this is an extreme, but only running counterpoise to your extreme that you provided. But let's be real - no one here is adopting either extreme, and people, while happy with the improvement/the sign that Blizzard is listening, are not happy to the point of being satisfied. No i'm assuming people take abit of positivity out of this event but i worded the post wrong. People should be abit more aggressive on their stance. Critisizing the parts where they feel frustrated and nothing more, no compliments until these shenanigans get sorted out. All this gimmick by blizzard happened because the community let it happen ( by 'let it happen', i mean not being critical about it enough). By being aggressive as a community, it shows that we are not a pushover and want to be treated with certain level of standards. I agree that people should maintain their criticism, but I don't necessarily think these changes are due to the degree of aggressiveness. People have been feeling these sentiments since the launch of the game (perhaps even earlier, in the beta). If anything, emotion would fade over time by now, but at the very least, it doesn't make sense that people, out of any time, would be suddenly more angry now, and that this anger led to the UI thread/reddit/b.net posts. Instead, I think that the big change was due to the organization and unification of our frustration into a single and therefore far more potent movement. Those recent threads on b.net and the like. As long as we maintain the momentum behind those threads, I think we're on a good path. Ok when i say frustration, i dont mean anger, but discontent. And when i say discontent, i mean a feeling of injustice. And a feeling of injustice does not fade away over time. pity, then you will live a very, very unhappy life of feeling constantly cheated and expecting others to do everything for you. blizzard is doing what blizzard can This notion is completely absurd. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a three course meal. The appetizer comes out sort of late, but it's ok. Unfortunately, it takes them an hour to bring you silverware so when you finally get a spoon, you're thankful for it? The reality is that people are leaving the restaurant, and many have already left. That doesn't just mean casuals. That means monobattle tournaments beat major championships. And with LoL taking over in a big way and DotA 2 on the horizon, it may not look good by the time LoV is out. You don't have to be displeased because of it, but being happy for the bare minimum isn't really rational consumer behavior when you've got other options who do everything so much better. Huh. Lol and Dota2 are completely different games; they aren't "other" options. Hell, even if you can lump them into the same bucket, the fact that Starcraft 2 supports mapmaking and the surrounding ecosystem behind makes them sufficiently different from a "what does the UI needs to provide" perspective. In any event, lol/dota2's success has comparatively little to do with the UI and more to do with dota-the-game and capitalizing on a f2p/large player base. They're going after the same community and the same sponsorship dollars. A year and a half ago you could've said "Halo and SC2 don't compete", except now Halo is on life support and SC2 is the new darling of MLG, temporarily. Those games' success is in large part due to being a MOBA and in LoL's case, free, but they also both do a much, much better job of creating a community within the game and in DotA's case, it comes primed for tournament support. I still see no indication that Blizzard is particularly interested in ESPORTS, aside from a few blurbs on the website, whereas DotA 2 has big, bright flashing lights that say "competitive gamers come here!!!!!!" Some people just hate MOBA games which is perfectly fine, but to think there won't be a huge amount of crossover is folly. That's who Blizzard's competitors are, so when they have all the features that your games' hardcore base is crying for, turning around and offering resizable chat windows doesn't cut it nor should it.
But they don't have all the features the "hardcore" player base is crying for. Lol in particular doesn't have clan support or lan play, like sc2. Lol has cross-region play, but that's trivial under the F2P model even if they had region-locked accounts like with sc2. I have lol and sc loaded up side-by-side at the moment and their chat systems are roughly identical. Hell, lol doesn't even have built-in replay support which you would think would be a "requirement" of any competitive game. Unranked gameplay in lol is far more streamlined than sc2, but that's only because there's no notion of a custom map so lol can simply offer the fixed maps and game types up front.
If anything, lol is a shining example of how you don't need to provide "hardcore" features in your UI to be successful at esports (at least in the short term, because as much as I appreciate lol, it still reeks of wow arena years 1 and 2 to me). You say that the game's success is largely due to MOBA + f2p + good esports marketing. I'd argue that IS exactly why it is successful now and everything else is incidental.
(To note, I'm actually of the mind that dota2 will pull a betamax in the competitive scene. It's "technically superior" to lol in the UI-features front, but it doesn't have the momentum that lol does, and valve won't promote it as heavily as riot.)
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On March 13 2012 22:00 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 17:04 Roblin wrote:On March 13 2012 16:25 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 16:08 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:00 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:55 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:45 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:
[quote]
I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap.
^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. That is how unwanted things get changed; by showing discontent. So what reaction do you want out of people exactly? Improvements are being made and you want everyone to be mad? That doesn't make much sense now does it. Nobody is happy it took so long, people are happy it will be patched at all. Do people have to react?Does an improvement that is long overdue and simplistic, warrant such a praise? If people must react, they can express their frustration about the slow progression over something simple. Do people have to react? What kind of silly question is that? How exactly can you NOT react in some way or form? Something should go through your head when you read this, that something is what you call a reaction. Again, people aren't praising it because its this late, people are just happy it happens at all. Oh no i meant react as in posting, not the actual definition. On March 13 2012 16:00 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:12 blade55555 wrote:On March 13 2012 15:11 ArcLiTe wrote:
[quote]
Oh Im bashing people now? Oh ok I see Im the bad guy right? Oh sorry people. All hail blizzard!
yeah you were, you were saying how disgusting it is for people to be happy with this lol. What's your problem? I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap. ^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. By showing discontent, it puts blizzard pressure to change their ways. And while im posting this i might as well post my disappointment that blizzard has not done what steam did with dota 2; incorporating LAN in a way that it doesn't hurt their sales. There's a difference with being happy with an improvement and being happy with the status quo. You're assuming that people are now just going "Hey! Now everything's fine." People aren't. People are happy that these much needed improvements are here, but - and this is key - we still want the other key improvements. No one here is saying "I'm completely satisfied." In short, the UI thread will be updated to not include the changes that Blizzard's offered, but it will still be there, and the movement will still be there. Also, people not being happy with the patch would "hurt esports" (god, do we really have to resort to this silliness of "X is hurting esports"???). If nobody was happy at all, Blizzard would see that, throw their arms up in the air and go "oh well, listening to them didn't accomplish anything, guess there's no point in doing these improvements, we might as well continue doing things just in terms of what we think gets $$$ instead of what we think these people are telling us. Of course, this is an extreme, but only running counterpoise to your extreme that you provided. But let's be real - no one here is adopting either extreme, and people, while happy with the improvement/the sign that Blizzard is listening, are not happy to the point of being satisfied. No i'm assuming people take abit of positivity out of this event but i worded the post wrong. People should be abit more aggressive on their stance. Critisizing the parts where they feel frustrated and nothing more, no compliments until these shenanigans get sorted out. All this gimmick by blizzard happened because the community let it happen ( by 'let it happen', i mean not being critical about it enough). By being aggressive as a community, it shows that we are not a pushover and want to be treated with certain level of standards. I agree that people should maintain their criticism, but I don't necessarily think these changes are due to the degree of aggressiveness. People have been feeling these sentiments since the launch of the game (perhaps even earlier, in the beta). If anything, emotion would fade over time by now, but at the very least, it doesn't make sense that people, out of any time, would be suddenly more angry now, and that this anger led to the UI thread/reddit/b.net posts. Instead, I think that the big change was due to the organization and unification of our frustration into a single and therefore far more potent movement. Those recent threads on b.net and the like. As long as we maintain the momentum behind those threads, I think we're on a good path. Ok when i say frustration, i dont mean anger, but discontent. And when i say discontent, i mean a feeling of injustice. And a feeling of injustice does not fade away over time. pity, then you will live a very, very unhappy life of feeling constantly cheated and expecting others to do everything for you. blizzard is doing what blizzard can This notion is completely absurd. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a three course meal. The appetizer comes out sort of late, but it's ok. Unfortunately, it takes them an hour to bring you silverware so when you finally get a spoon, you're thankful for it? The reality is that people are leaving the restaurant, and many have already left. That doesn't just mean casuals. That means monobattle tournaments beat major championships. And with LoL taking over in a big way and DotA 2 on the horizon, it may not look good by the time LoV is out. You don't have to be displeased because of it, but being happy for the bare minimum isn't really rational consumer behavior when you've got other options who do everything so much better.
1. starcraft is not food, it is not sleep, it is not necessary for survival and for the small minority for whom it is necessary for survival (proffesionals) all necessary activities which are important for them are already in the game and have been for a long time.
2. in the restaurant example, this would be a more accurate representation of the current situation:
its like going to a restaurant, but the furnituring is a little strange, you have to go through a small part of the kitchen before being able to get seated, and the tables are set in small booths, and the menu lists the items in no particular order.
but nonetheless, after a little bit of trouble the food is ordered and served in a timely fashion, and the food is excellently delicious.
though the quests complain about the strange entrance and other issues, the restaurant simply cannot afford to rebuild differently, especially since it has issues in another town which soaks up most of the profits until a few years down the line, eventually however, they do make repairs, for example, they redirect the entrance to not go through the kitchen, they make windows in the booth walls, and the menu is replaced by another which has the desserts first, then drinks, then soups, then appetizers, then meat etc. people point out that it is most certainly an improvement, but can still be improved (the cathegories are in a strange order).
after all this, there are mainly 2 different reactions:
some people say "thank you for addressing the issues, I look forward to how it will look when you are finished with the other things we mentioned"
and some people say "why weren't it this way a few years ago? and why didn't you do anything about it until now? oh and by the way, I still have this list of complaints for you to fix"
which is the more constructive feedback?
which makes most sense?
which is the most selfish?
which is the most short-sighted?
what kind of community do you want?
3. I never said to be happy about the bare minimum, I said to not be angry at blizzard when they give improvements and see things from their side.
I think of you and all the other complaining people like small babies screaming they want icecream, and when they get a lollipop they complain that it's not icecream.
some facts:
a) battlenet 2.0 was underwhelming and a lot worse than people expected.
b) changing the entire system is not easy.
c) battlenet 2.0 will be improved compared to what it was at launch.
d) battlenet 2.0 will not be perfect after these changes.
e) battlenet 2.0 will see further changes.
so now, you big baby, we wait, and eventually mommy will come home from her shopping trip with some icecream, you can either take the lollipop for now or not.
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Ya, all the chat features and upgrades will be nice, and as some have pointed out, long overdue...
but I came to play Starcraft. The chat and "social" stuff has never bothered me at all. I think the original facebook integration pissed me off more than anything, because I've never had an account.
The reason the game is unpopular is because it is difficult to take up, the main feature is 1v1, where you can't really blame anyone but yourself. LoL and DotA are team player only... that really helps them appeal more to CS and FPS players who are used to that sort of feel in a game.
The thing I WISH they would fix is the pathing. Make units less apt to be pushed around, and make units spread out more. I realize this would take some balance changes afterward, but it would make for a game more about controlling space than matching unit compositions- and make it more visually appealing.
At least they are trying, but I think they should address the game itself more and think about why so many people complain about it and why more Korean pros are choosing LoL. It's because this isn't a true followup to BW.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 13 2012 23:05 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 22:00 Jibba wrote:On March 13 2012 17:04 Roblin wrote:On March 13 2012 16:25 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:21 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 16:08 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 16:00 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:55 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:45 Assirra wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:
[quote]
^This
People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way:
If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date.
That is how unwanted things get changed; by showing discontent. So what reaction do you want out of people exactly? Improvements are being made and you want everyone to be mad? That doesn't make much sense now does it. Nobody is happy it took so long, people are happy it will be patched at all. Do people have to react?Does an improvement that is long overdue and simplistic, warrant such a praise? If people must react, they can express their frustration about the slow progression over something simple. Do people have to react? What kind of silly question is that? How exactly can you NOT react in some way or form? Something should go through your head when you read this, that something is what you call a reaction. Again, people aren't praising it because its this late, people are just happy it happens at all. Oh no i meant react as in posting, not the actual definition. On March 13 2012 16:00 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 13 2012 15:42 Cubu wrote:On March 13 2012 15:22 ArcLiTe wrote:On March 13 2012 15:12 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]
yeah you were, you were saying how disgusting it is for people to be happy with this lol. What's your problem? I have a problem when I see people fall into a trap. They actually think we should be happy about this patch? This is nothing. And people go wepeeeee hurraaaay down the trap. ^This People being happy about this patch and other patches that should have been released sooner or at game release are ACTUALLY hurting esports in the long run. Think about it this way: If a significant amount of people are happy with a long overdue change, this encourages blizzard to do what they have always done; release patches that could have been released sooner, at a much later date. By showing discontent, it puts blizzard pressure to change their ways. And while im posting this i might as well post my disappointment that blizzard has not done what steam did with dota 2; incorporating LAN in a way that it doesn't hurt their sales. There's a difference with being happy with an improvement and being happy with the status quo. You're assuming that people are now just going "Hey! Now everything's fine." People aren't. People are happy that these much needed improvements are here, but - and this is key - we still want the other key improvements. No one here is saying "I'm completely satisfied." In short, the UI thread will be updated to not include the changes that Blizzard's offered, but it will still be there, and the movement will still be there. Also, people not being happy with the patch would "hurt esports" (god, do we really have to resort to this silliness of "X is hurting esports"???). If nobody was happy at all, Blizzard would see that, throw their arms up in the air and go "oh well, listening to them didn't accomplish anything, guess there's no point in doing these improvements, we might as well continue doing things just in terms of what we think gets $$$ instead of what we think these people are telling us. Of course, this is an extreme, but only running counterpoise to your extreme that you provided. But let's be real - no one here is adopting either extreme, and people, while happy with the improvement/the sign that Blizzard is listening, are not happy to the point of being satisfied. No i'm assuming people take abit of positivity out of this event but i worded the post wrong. People should be abit more aggressive on their stance. Critisizing the parts where they feel frustrated and nothing more, no compliments until these shenanigans get sorted out. All this gimmick by blizzard happened because the community let it happen ( by 'let it happen', i mean not being critical about it enough). By being aggressive as a community, it shows that we are not a pushover and want to be treated with certain level of standards. I agree that people should maintain their criticism, but I don't necessarily think these changes are due to the degree of aggressiveness. People have been feeling these sentiments since the launch of the game (perhaps even earlier, in the beta). If anything, emotion would fade over time by now, but at the very least, it doesn't make sense that people, out of any time, would be suddenly more angry now, and that this anger led to the UI thread/reddit/b.net posts. Instead, I think that the big change was due to the organization and unification of our frustration into a single and therefore far more potent movement. Those recent threads on b.net and the like. As long as we maintain the momentum behind those threads, I think we're on a good path. Ok when i say frustration, i dont mean anger, but discontent. And when i say discontent, i mean a feeling of injustice. And a feeling of injustice does not fade away over time. pity, then you will live a very, very unhappy life of feeling constantly cheated and expecting others to do everything for you. blizzard is doing what blizzard can This notion is completely absurd. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a three course meal. The appetizer comes out sort of late, but it's ok. Unfortunately, it takes them an hour to bring you silverware so when you finally get a spoon, you're thankful for it? The reality is that people are leaving the restaurant, and many have already left. That doesn't just mean casuals. That means monobattle tournaments beat major championships. And with LoL taking over in a big way and DotA 2 on the horizon, it may not look good by the time LoV is out. You don't have to be displeased because of it, but being happy for the bare minimum isn't really rational consumer behavior when you've got other options who do everything so much better. so now, you big baby, we wait, and eventually mommy will come home from her shopping trip with some icecream, you can either take the lollipop for now or not.
Blizzard does not exist in a vaccuum. We find a new game when theirs gets stale (and the type of features people are asking for are the things which promote longevity), which many people already have. Every company will always have diehards to eat up any scraps they get, but most people will just move on.
Not everyone can have a Panglossian view of the world, and thankfully so.
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Open games list!
They're finally improving Bnet with the functionality they had 13 years ago! and it's not even every game, maybe they'll get us a full functioning game list by 2015, just in time for legacy of the void!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://us.media1.battle.net/cms/gallery/JGOHL9DDT44S1319129655769.jpg)
