EPTreach your skill ceiling = give the game up? - Page 4
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
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ReturnStroke
United States801 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:51 LaxCraft wrote: The ceiling doesn't exist yet. The game is still too new and the meta game is still developing. If you're talking about your limitations on the ladder regarding your bracket, all it takes is practice to get better and get out. If you're top masters to grandmasters, the ladder is probably of little significance. To get better at that point you need to hone your skills with equal or greater skilled opponents through custom games. There won't be a ceiling for for years until after the last expansion hits, and years after that. I think he means his own personal ceiling. If he meant the game's skill ceiling, he'd win Code S consistently. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On March 10 2012 13:59 Biggun69 wrote: This is not the case. In physical situations there is a limit of what a human being is actually capable of. In starcraft 2 there is no limit on any person unless they have a physical disability which stops them from being able to press buttons on their keyboard or click their mouse. Otherwise the sky is the limit on what you can acomplish. Like I stated in my post above, people get stuck because they dont know what they are doing wrong and how to improve it. There is no magical force holding them back or some kind of genetic disadvantage which doesnt allow them to excell at sc2. You do realize that all human joints (in this case joints in your fingers) have a rotational speed / reflex speed limit right. There is literally a hard limit to APM / micro / macro and thus skill ceiling. I won't point out sight / processing in your brain because you hit that ALOT later. There are boundaries imposed by physics and biology, and like I said, motivation /lifestyle /finance and logical conclusions, if someone was able to devote this level of devotion to a game he would be insane, and any enterprise willing to aid such an effort where you are actually pushing physical / biological limits would much rather put it into something more profitable than a video game. | ||
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ReturnStroke
United States801 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:56 feanor1 wrote: You play the game for fun? IDK in his defense, I haven't really played video games "for fun" in a really long time. I pretty much just play any game to be better. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:49 Pantythief wrote: You play Skyrim for 5 minutes and realize how bad it is. Then you turn StarCraft 2 back on. Dude Skyrim is awesome. It's especially good for just mindless decompressing. Or you could try some LOL. SC2 is really stressful imo. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On March 10 2012 15:15 TigerKarl wrote: The height of your skill ceiling is influenced by uncountable factors, the biggest is probably intelligence, or better the many aspects of intelligence. Every time a thread about this issue comes up, someone comes along to say this, but it's not generally true. Many abilities that people describe as "intelligence" strongly reward a type of single-minded focus and concentration that specifically makes tasks like Starcraft, which instead reward constant prioritization and shifting of attention from thing to thing, difficult. Good analytical problem-solving skills are helpful in advancing one's Starcraft skill, but the analytical problem solving rarely happens *in a game,* where reaction time, long- and short-term memory, manual dexterity, properly-trained muscle memory, and good intuitive spatial reasoning are pretty much the whole game. I could introduce you to a long list of witheringly intelligent people from an analytical problem solving standpoint who have devoted hundreds or thousands of hours to Starcraft and have plateaued in platinum or below because they're just not that strong in one or more of those other areas. Edit: I believe that extremely focused practice might help these people get past their plateaus, but my point is that simply having good analytical problem solving skills is not really the key thing for them. I think the people who come along to assert that analytical problem solving is the key skill may be doing so because it's their own personal weakest area (relative to the others I've listed, not in an absolute sense) and they've had to develop it to advance. | ||
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catatoni
Finland23 Posts
You can do it  | ||
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Kira__
Sweden2672 Posts
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DarKcS
Australia1237 Posts
On March 10 2012 14:02 Tachion wrote: What if he only has 1 hour a day(or every few days) to play? There is absolutely a ceiling if you have limited time in which to practice. I only played 1-5 games a day. Often 3-4 days with 0 games, some with 5 etc. I reached Masters... It's really not that hard. Fyi, watching streams is bad, it's good when you feel 'lost', but it won't actually improve your skill level. The more live events you watch, the more your actual skill degrades. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:49 Pantythief wrote: You play Skyrim for 5 minutes and realize how bad it is. Then you turn StarCraft 2 back on. The funny part is ... stopping to go play another game for a couple weeks isn't far from the truth for reinvigoration. But yeah, getting better after a point is damn painful. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
and keep in mind skill sealing is that you did it PERFECTLY, and that is almost imposible, espicaly in any multitasking focused strategy. so yust close youre browser and go train there is no "PERSONAL" skill sealing, if you yust practise enough | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3478 Posts
Sit down in singleplayer and perfect your builds, then execute them as good as you can on ladder. | ||
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Xova
United States342 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:48 glyoArtOfWar wrote: you destroy the floor and lay a new foundation This is probably the best thing ive ever read when it comes to something like this. I personally dont believe in the "Skill Ceiling" if you push yourself to get better and really hunger for whatever it is you want, you will get it. It may take longer than most, but youll get it. | ||
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CrtBalorda
Slovenia704 Posts
Pretty sure there is something your just not doing right. | ||
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Siffer
United States467 Posts
Ask yourself questions, watch replays from opponents point of view. See if there is anything they are doing that is exploitable. And (imo)#1 most important thing you must do to progress in RTS is to discuss games with people! You can watch all the day9 dailies you want; however, it is a lot more beneficial(imo) to have a two way conversation about games. and most importantly, have fun! | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
My friend is a bit of a pessimist and he's always afraid of having his hit his 'skill ceiling'. He's a bit of a downer to have around tbh, whenever I have a losing session, he reassures me that I'm losing because I've hit mine. Though a better player than me, he's quit laddering, and I haven't. But I happen to think it's all bullshit. Natural reflexes play a much smaller part in SC2 than BW. I am with QXC - if you have hit a wall, it means your methods for improvement have hit a wall. They need to be worked on before you will get better. This is fairly logical: The methods for improvement valid at certain levels don't work on other levels: I mean it won't do IdrA any good to drill his mechanics. A week at a self-help and mental strength conference might. Meanwhile, all the positive thinking in the world won't help JohhnyScrub get out of Silver. Even if this is wrong, and I see no evidence that it is, I think it's still valid. It's one of the few valid applications of the Precautionary Principle (since it doesn't advocate action, but merely precludes negative decisions), ie: Even if you have hit a true skill wall that you will never really get over, believing this will make you feel pretty shitty about playing the game (like my friend, and you will quit like him). Believing you can get better one day, even if it happens to be totally untrue, makes you feel a lot better and have fun playing and even losing. So what's the harm in hoping? How many people play games and sports casually, like local football and or chess club, while believing they are actually not ever really going to get anything out of it or get any better because of it? Very few is the answer. That said, there's a lot of evidence for the no-skill-wall-below-grandmaster school of thought. If you are not master league, there's a way to improve from watching Day9, reading TL, signing up for coaching sites. www.hotkeyit.com were great for me. I don't have any personal affiliation to the site, I just found their service helped me break a wall. There are many like it. There are also tonnes of pro-coaches. And honestly, finding a practice partner is the best way to break walls. | ||
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Blezza
United Kingdom191 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On March 10 2012 17:41 Blezza wrote: I would try switching race to Zerg or Terran. You might lower your rank a bit but i imagine that in the long term it will be better for you. And I think this is exactly what NOT to do. This just means you lose 80% of the lessons you actually have learned, though you might not realise it. It also validates the notion that it's the game that is the issue, not your methods of approaching your play. I race switched in Season 2, from Zerg to Terran. I have regretted it many times. I eventually got back to, and exceeded my skill level with the new race, but it was a scrubby thing to do and it cost me many months of improvement, as well as validating false mental reactions to losing like 'imbalance'. It turned out that I really was more interested strategically with Zerg anyway, but switching races again is even more daunting. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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