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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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JellowLight
60 Posts
But, saying the name of a God in a bad way, suggesting that you are offending God, but everyone knows that the word doesn't really mean that anymore is ok? Common people, I am an active christian and I don't feel offended when someone says Jesus name or Gods name badly. I know that they just use it as a strong word. I may sound harsh, but get over yourself and dont feel offended by a small word OR equalise it and also don't allow insults on religion! | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:54 iloveAthene wrote: "Tea drinking brute" is the absolute lamest insult I've ever heard in my life. I guarantee I could find something I could say that would offend you but this thread cant devolve into that I know, I was tempted but let's not pull an Orb and put our foots in our mouths. | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
Also, Alex's comments on Idra are exactly what I hoped he'd say. Really, he's handled this so well, good work by the Boss. | ||
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Chessz
United States644 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:47 branflakes14 wrote: I read it, and what I said undermines everything written in it. Go ahead, call me a honkey and call England a country of violent, colonial, tea drinking brutes. I won't bat an eyelash, I promise. Look, you don't need to be vile with me, I thought it would be interesting to share with you. Please answer how "stop being offended" or Morgan Freeman's response to "stop talking about it" can combat the deep implicit bias and institutionalized racism that still pervades society ? (and I assume we can agree that such a thing exists and would be absent in an ideal society) What does more harm, thinking a racist thought internally and actually being racist or saying a racist word in a public space, whether the intent is racist or not? What about offense being an "arbitrary" concept undermines the concern for rational/positive modern cultural narratives? Personally, I don't agree that this entire fiasco was the best way to handle it, I think orb brought way more attention to it by lying, and might have saved his job if he apologized immediately. But it's ignorant to say that these issues are somehow irrelevant or that people shouldn't be concerned about this in their communities. If orb was openly racist and broadcasted that, would you still want to be a member of this community? | ||
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Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
if orbs only fault is that he used racial slurs as bm in replays from 1 year ago, then an apology along with a statement that he is indeed not a racist should suffice. sure the cs community 2003 was immature, but this here is just as unreasonable, overrighteous whiners approaching sponsors, making an elephant out of a mouse whenever possible, sitting on the high horse hiding their dislike and jealousy that really drive them and finally instigating a large community like reddit to gain the nescessary influence to have a caster fired? honestly i liked the plain bm people from cs better, at least you knew there was no ill intent behind it, just venting frustration... and to people who believe the sc2 community is so much better: the amount of sexism and nationalism in sc2 is quite high as well, and i have no doubt racism is prevalent, just that the people seem to be smart about it because they know it is not accepted. EG obviously did not consider orb a valuable asset if laying him off over such a thing was their chosen course of action. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
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ZessiM
United Kingdom232 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:53 branflakes14 wrote: I'm actually interested now as to whether any black people who claim to be genuinely offended by what Orb said have contacted EG, or if this is just another case of white guilt. Wow, quite the cynic aren't you. | ||
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Jebusrocks
Canada62 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:54 nalgene wrote: It's just a word to replace "my "brother" " and " my "dawg" " to " my "N _ _ _ _ " " Everyone is not white in this video and their frequent use of N _ _ _ _ doesn't make them racist. " stop playin' N _ _ _ _ " " f _ _ _ that s _ _ _ N _ _ _ _ " They use all of those in that video but there's no caucasian in it though. Words change over time. That word has friendly connotations nowadays. It's not the 1500s to 1800s anymore. the nword was a derogatory term accepted by the general populace up to the '70s (even after the Civil Rights Act was passed) and is very much a derogatory term today. It is used in different context if used by african-americans, but if used by others, especially whites who have used the term in derogatory terms (they also just called all african americans, 'kids') than ya. | ||
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MercilessMonkey
Canada150 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:56 MajorityofOne wrote: EG seems to always be in the middle of some kind of controversy, but this time they handled the situation perfectly. This post sets the bar exactly where it should be when it comes to the two words in question: very high. That said, I am ready to forgive Orb immediately if he apologizes. He does not strike me as a malicious person, just a guy who rages very hard while playing and says things he shouldn't. I hope most people in the community take a similar position His apology is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 I'm on the same page as you though. I think EG handled the situation well. I think orb handled it extraordinarily poorly at the outset, but is handling it well now. Hopefully won't be a problem going forward if he learns from it. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
I think this is a good direction that we should move toward. Public figures in our community should realize that what they do when online will have consequence in the real world too. And that when they choose to become a figure in the community, they have to sacrifice some of their privacy (such as ladder games not being personal anymore). Being well known means that they have to act more carefully and with more composure. | ||
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oBlade
United States6612 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:42 Defacer wrote: So in other words ... you have no defense or justification for using the word. That indeed it reflects people's arrogance. And their sole intent to offend others. Just checking. Alex definitely made the right call. It's more offensive to me when people think being condescending and putting words in others' mouths is a legitimate form of persuasion. My use of any word is the same as my use of any other word: because it's a word in the language that I might like to use sometime when I'm speaking the language of which the word is a member. This is all the justification I need. It's possible to involve any word in causing the offense of others, does this mean we need to indict the entire language on charges of discrimination? There's no one word that can only be used in an offending sense, and even if there were, offense be damned anyways. I take pride in my offending expertise - I could offend anyone on the planet with indefinite articles and punctuation if I wanted. The reason I use words outside of that set is to express myself better. I wouldn't get offended at the use of any specific word. I certainly expect others to, if only because the average person can't be quite as dispassionate as me. For instance, an Amish person might get offended that I talked about my motherboard, but that wouldn't stop me talking about my desktop. Sure, I could call it the north bridge as a euphemism and the Amish guy wouldn't know any better, but something offends everyone, so I won't warp my language at the whims of other's offense. Nor would the degree of offense factor into this - someone getting more offended just tells me he's more emotionally unstable. | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
On March 09 2012 16:57 MercilessMonkey wrote: His apology is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 I'm on the same page as you though. I think EG handled the situation well. I think orb handled it extraordinarily poorly at the outset, but is handling it well now. Hopefully won't be a problem going forward if he learns from it. Just read the apology. He said what he needed to say. I think we all knew he was using those words without wanting to invoke the full weight of their meaning, but unfortunately with such terms it's simply something that can't be done and shouldn't be attempted. | ||
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
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iloveAthene
186 Posts
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Smat
United States301 Posts
being offended is a choice that's brought on by social pressure, its not something involuntary | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
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GeorgeyBeats
United Kingdom338 Posts
I will be contacting sponsors to tell them I am impressed with your organisation! | ||
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ScumScan
United States3 Posts
Because saying n------- is obnoxious. | ||
Eschaton
United States1245 Posts
Great post Alex, and I'm glad that you stepped up to show some leadership here. Unfortunately there are many posters here who see no problem with a highly visible community member behaving as Orb did. From comments such as above ("I cannot respect your post. Expecting universal condemnation of behaviour that does not conform to your personal values strikes me as a terrible thing." - Hailplays) there are simply those in our community who think that racism is fine. To answer Hailplays, condemning racism in all its forms is not simply a belief of Alex Garfield's - it is a fundamental tenant of the global society in which we all live, and it's reasonable to expect nearly universal condemnation, excluding racists of course. | ||
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